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I just feel that the game should not change between playing solo and playing in groups, if the goal is to truly promote co-op/public games.
I've been farming MP6 recently and I won't be able to go back to farming MP4, simply because I do noticed a slight increase in loot (both gold and item quality).
If I play by myself at MP6, it is still bearable in terms of how fast I can kill things (I know...my DPS is low).
But add a couple of players and the monsters' health increase to the point that my attacks barely make any difference.
I do understand the logic as to why monsters' health would increase (since we're more players dishing more dmage).
But I feel that we play in groups because we want to feel more powerful as a group and not to feel like it makes no difference. Back in my old days of console gaming, playing with a friend was fun, because you felt that you could progress faster and easier and you would go and help each other if the other one had problems.
Anyone else feel that Blizzard should not increase monsters' health for each additional player that joins your game either in public or co-op play sessions?
Coop is fine. Added players only add 70% to monster health, so if you have a well-balanced group where people give 100% (or sometimes even more than 100% due to team synergy), you can mow through whatever MP level you're all geared for. Ever played with a monk and his conviction mantra? Or taken on ubers with a well geared CM/WW wiz by your side?
If you're helping an undergeared mate, I suggest to drop the MP level to the comfortable average between what you two can do.
If monster health wasn't increased, co-op would be way too easy for good, balanced groups, and everyone will just uber at MP10. The way things are now are fine, it encourages forming good, balanced groups to maximize efficiency. :)
Other, comparable, games throw more of the difficult enemies at you rather than just multiplying crap. 3D games seem to suffer from a more severe limit in the number of enemies the engine can handle so they tend to do things like more health or individually tougher enemies. Older games could throw MORE enemies at you as an option due to different engine design.
MP should feature other modern MP game play stuff like being able to save each other BEFORE death during a bleed out period and such. MP should rescind repair costs if your partner rez you. MP should feature more synergy and team buffs.
1 player = 100% per player
2 player = 85% per player
3 player = 80% per player
4 player = 77.5% per player
There is already a discount of 22.5% monster HP in parties of four.
Why would anyone ever run single player again when you can just multi-box 3 characters in full defensive MF with a DPS character and farm at the same speed as single player but with 4 times the loot and gold?
Well, I guess, I'll keep on farming MP6 by myself then. As simple as that.
I'll respect the majority on this, but I'll dial down to MP4 to play in group, while I play in MP6 for solo farming.
Personally, I find it restraining to HAVE to all go after the same monster or same group of monsters while in coop.
Heck, I'd be willing to face monsters with higher damage, but take the same time to kill then the solo version.
It would still be nice if Blizzard reduced monsters' health and increased their damage to balance it out.
first of all, before I even get to my real post, i just want to point out that the majority of ppl naysaying this idea have barbs as their mains. no coincidence, I'm sure.
MP should rescind repair costs if your partner rez you. MP should feature more synergy and team buffs.
Absolutely, especially the first one. It's so freaking OBVIOUS, tbh ....... it's like "why isn't it like this already?!"
patch after patch, co-op still sucking, and I have sat there while killing inefficiently with my various co-op groups, spending my spare time as it takes 3-4-5x longer to kill mobs thinking to myself "these changes they're making SEEM good on paper, but ... why does this still feel slow and un-fun?"
it may sound radical, but i basically agree w/ OP, for at least the following reasons, and probably more which i forget atm :P :
#1 the lag. Let's start with the most fundamental, inarguable downside of playing with other ppl: the more people u have in it, the more the game just feels like crap. even adding a single co-op partner, the smoothness of single player soloing is immediately gone, and close calls u can usually get away with turn to death. and when u add 1-2 more beyond that, especially when they are connecting from all quarters of the globe, all bets are off.
#2 the aggro AI in this game is so hyperactive, and with no effective way for even the "tank" classes to hold aggro, that having additional players in the game turns every single semi-serious battle into complete chaos. even in the most channeled of circumstances (narrow hallways, etc.) there are plenty times when there is no battle"front", per se, and it turns into a clustermess, taking way longer than it should.
ironically, i've found 4-player co-op works best when it's 4 players of the same basic type .. i.e. 4 ranged or 4 melee. either 4 melees standing in place tanking it, or 4 ranged kiting every which way with no illusion of security. this was not the design goal, I'm sure.
#3 the lack of coordination among players. ... resulting in very real, but probably difficult-to-measure inefficiency. in everything from "which mob to target next" to "hit this chest/shrine/whatever or wait?" to "when to town" to "what zone to hit next". more players = less efficiency.
and as for REAL strategic and tactical coordination? in over 1000 hours of play, I can count the times on one hand that even 2 monks or 2 barbs have said "maybe we shouldn't both use the same mantra" or warcry or whatever. let alone doing a truly party-wide complex skill selection. dream on. (and could the fact that there's only 1 or 2 rockstar builds per class, and no one wants to deviate from them be a factor?? hmm i wonder!)
(but hey if u want to make parties like this, feel free to send me invite.)
#4 the gg group factor, specifically: the difficulty of putting one together. i.e., the more ppl u add, the more difficult it is to ensure they are all "perfectly" balanced in killing/survival ability. even more specifically: the fact that adding a flat 75% health per player does not reflect the fact that all co-oppers are not created equal. the more players u add to a co-op scenario, the more chance there is that one of them is going to be "boat-anchor bad", i.e. maybe not so "bad" in their own right, but slowing the group down. and usually usually they're someone's friend and you're not just going to cut them loose, and nor are you going to drop the whole group down in MP levels to accomodate this one person.
this whole issue is worse as the MP levels go up, because not only are there fewer gg players in the overall pool to choose from, but they tend to have more neurotic superstitions and idiosyncracies about playing w/ other classes/ppl, playing certain areas, fighting certain mob types, etc.
all of which leads me, finally, to ......
#5 just to encourage co-op -- in order for ppl to even care to play it, co-op doesn't just need to be "as cool" as soloing, it needs to be coolER. right now, and ever since the game has come out, it is overall FAR worse than solo. so, do whatever it takes, blizzard, and put some incentive in co-op. IMO the whole idea should be to ENCOURAGE friendly cooperation, to get people into this game, build the strong d2-like playerbase/community, let players see what the other classes look like in action, etc.
(a couple months ago, ppl were saying co-op incentive it should be MF/GF based, but obviously nowadays MF/GF isn't much incentive to those of high plvls. so .... what else is there to target? cripes, even if there were co-op leaderboards, that would encourage ppl to team up...)
Edited by STG#1110 on 11/7/2012 5:19 PM PST
Too lazy too look but im sure im somewhat close. But someone useful posted the stats thats why i said correct me if im wrong cause i was sure i was off
You are doing it in reverse to most people. Most people do low MP fast runs with AOE skills that OHKO white mobs for better paragon experience and loot efficiency. Then they team up on high MP to farm keys and organs.
For public games with temporary groups, MP0 is a joke. A good player can carry 3 AFKs by himself.
For private games at higher MP, we are talking about a TEAM here and if each person doesn't know their role in the team, they need to get better at their game.
I'm a WD/wizard/barb in that order.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 11/7/2012 5:36 PM PST
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