Diablo® III

100-150k DPS DW Monk discussion thread

I've finally reached a good amount of sustain/defence with 615 RA (OwE) and right at the door of 4.8k armour (dropped 100 armour to gain 1k dps and 2k hp on my gloves) plus 893 LoH, 595 HP per second and 2.5% LS, my next goal is to get a inna vast expanse with more vit so i can drop the vit from my vile wards and get ones with over 200dex, going to be expensive ><, then after that im going for footprints and reflection 2p...going to be a long farming process though
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I was at 120K unbuffed with my EF (currently selling it so not in my profile)...but I do more dam due to WKL bonus and stacking SW bonus to 20+ % as well...

At this point I can't afford my 'dream EF' so I've chosen a slightly different route to potential upgrades...the obvious one is getting CC on my Nat's ring, the other one is trifecta gloves with at least 150+ DEX on there, and last but not least...I've been thinking of getting one of the higher DPS Fists of Az Turrasq (mine is decent but would like a bit more DPS)...I think it's a highly under rated weapon when it comes to end game main hands, I like the spirit regen and the core attack speed is great...but most of all that 5% chance to stun...when you hit as fast as a monk is a lot more noticeable than you think...when combining with Blinding Flash it often "renders monsters useless" for several seconds while allowing me to beat up on them and heal (due to my life sustain with LoH/LS/LPS)

Having said all of that...all the things I would like to upgrade cost a great deal of gold and I'm currently not having a lot of luck with godly drops to sell...so it may take me a while to get there but I like where I'm at.

I farm MP4/5 for loot and keys and MP7/8 for Ubers without a problem in a group of 4.
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It's really too bad that Nat's is such an essential DPS 2 set, because it basically makes going off OWE always cost you no matter how you gear. You're not going to skip +7% free crit chance, so you're just automatically eating that loss of free 80/60 resists on boots, and of course Vile Ward.
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Thanks for starting this thread -- this is a great idea. I hope this turns into an intellectual discussion based on critical reflection of the game, and not spewing out random legendary suggestions without any foundational discussion on the relative merits of the suggestions.

I've JUST cracked the 100K dps club, as some of you may have noticed in my guide (shameless plug!). So here are some thoughts I'm thinking about:
  • I have a poor monk's VW in my shoulders. I think I need to get the real deal -- a well rolled one may allow me to go after something more offensively oriented down the road; Natalya's boots and ring combo look very enticing to me.
  • I am thinking about splitting life sustain into two different categories -- main and supporting. LS and LoH are what I'd consider the main ones. But as we move up in the ranks and can attack higher MP levels, I'm thinking of building some other sustain as a supporting cast. LpSS is a popular one, but I'm thinking about Life After Each Kill as another. Both are very cheap (because they can never be our main form of sustain), but I think they are probably terribly undervalued, and as the mobs get bigger as we go up, I'm thinking it can be a cheap upgrade that will pack a very good punch (for LAEK) and faster attack speeds mean higher spirit generated, which means more frequent mantra spam (for LpSS). Neither of these will be enough on it's own because of their spikey nature, but as a secondary one, I think it'd be good. I might try to get this on some jewellery or weapons in my upcoming weapons purchases.

  • More expanded thoughts here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7005435708?page=1#9 (yet another shameless plug)

    On a side note, would love hear any thoughts any may have on EDPS if you've heard of it. Just general ideas. The big one that someone told me about is that the higher our EHP (and sustain on top of that), the higher our EDPS can be with no discernible change to actual DPS. I'm thinking hard about this, but would love to read your thoughts on this.
    Edited by Nameless#1537 on 11/11/2012 6:29 AM PST
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    @Nameless,

    I wouldn't say EDPS is something I actively think about, but I've always felt that if you are frequently running away and hence losing DPS time, you should either increase your survivability without losing DPS or go to easier content.

    I think a lot of people come to this game from MMO's, where DPS uptime is a major consideration, so I think a lot of people are familiar with the concept even if they don't talk about it or label it EDPS.
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    @Supes: Fist of Az is actually very good, I got mine for 140, sexy stats.
    I know I need to upgrade a whole bunch cus I pour all my gold into my weapon, I'm a bit confusing between blackthorne chest like what Supes1247 has or inna with dex/vit only?? can anyone give some opinion.

    I'm currently happy with my rare ring, but the rest need a replacement

    @Nameless: I don't think LDPS will be good

    P/S: @ Supes1247: how much did you pay for your chest and your WKL??
    Edited by Ruru#1469 on 11/11/2012 8:57 AM PST
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    @Ruru
    If you plan on keeping your Inna's Radiance (as opposed to getting a Mempo with Crit Chance or getting and Andy's and dealing with the fire damage) then I'd suggest going for a Blackthorne's. Overall I think they can roll better if you don't factor in the 2-set bonus for Inna's - I'd much rather have 70+ All Res than melee reduction.
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    @Ruru
    If you plan on keeping your Inna's Radiance (as opposed to getting a Mempo with Crit Chance or getting and Andy's and dealing with the fire damage) then I'd suggest going for a Blackthorne's. Overall I think they can roll better if you don't factor in the 2-set bonus for Inna's - I'd much rather have 70+ All Res than melee reduction.

    thanks for your opinion
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    Ruru the fist has nothing on EF it a weapon till you get a strong EF and I hate EF ugly orange hammer but it rip mobs up so I have to use it lol
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    So glad I found this thread. Had been thinking many of the same issues. I'd appreciate any advice about future upgrades that people can give. I think the effective dps argument is very valid, and I see so many 200k dps monks who spend half the time kiting or dead in MP5-6 and up (for key farming), which means you effectively have a dps of 100k. Don't get me wrong, I think they're great for plowing MP 2-3 for exp and items/gold!

    So my questions regarding my next upgrades are:
    1. Should I aim for a crit chance nats ring? It would be very hard to find with CR, as well as the sort of dex/vit roll on my current one. And I actually feel overbalanced towards crit chance vs crit dmg, but it does make more cyclones...

    2. Should I try to get trifecta gloves and ammy? It would come at the cost of defence, as well as lower crit chance and IAS. Or should I just aim for higher crit chance and IAS pieces than what I have. Seems it will be half the price or less compared to trifecta.

    3. Should I change my witching hour to a higher dex one at the cost of vit or armour? I'm thinking the current one is good because of the dual dex/vit roll and very high CR roll.

    4. What about inna's pants? I drop a lot of defence but the dps boost will be pretty big. I used to use dual resist blackthornes belt, which is why I had the pants. They are bery good for tanking, but since swapping to witching hour, I lose the set bonus. 100 vit isn't a big deal given I have plenty of hp and I can gem my helm if required. Plus I really like the blackthornes pants on their own anyway. Another idea is to get blackthorns ammy, but you cant get dex, crit chance and CR (only 2 rolls).

    What do you guys think? My budget is about 100mil, but I am willing to wait and save more. Would appreciate suggestions.
    Edited by BlackLotus#6188 on 11/11/2012 5:04 PM PST
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    Hmm...I have so many things on my mind that I want to do, DPS-wise and survivability-wise. As of now, I'm trying to get a new ammy for around 20m that can boost my dps by 10k-12k. This is the only upgrade I can do atm but it would boost my paper dps to ~105k and my WKL dps to ~126k. Next dps upgrade I could go with is to finally get a 2 set nat and I figured it'd cost me 20m for decent boots and 10m for decent ring so that's 30m just for 10k dps boost. After that, I'm pretty much clueless as to how to up my dmg from there but I'll focus on getting money for nats first.

    For suvivability, getting the nats boots for the ~75 AR would start me off into the direction of converting some of my cold res into AR. I can make do with 500 AR so I can afford to lose about 60 CR. I'd like to get Vile Wards too but my shoulders already has decent dex and vit and 79 AR so I'm putting Vile Wards off for a bit. I'm also looking into get some 40 AR Sage's gloves and 50-70 AR Inna's Helm. I really hope that OWE doesn't get nerfed but for my "dream" end-game, I don't want to use OWE at all.
    Edited by Darcy#1904 on 11/11/2012 5:52 PM PST
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    @Blacklotus... I think that you are at a crossroads with your monk that you need to decide what your priorities are going forward. You could work towards becoming a high-powered glass cannon monk (of which you speak in your first paragraph) or you could work towards building a stronger monk with decent DPS (which is another way of saying... increasing your EDPS by increasing your EHP). The former is flashier, the latter is more practical in my view. It all depends on what you want for your monk. I believe that the answers to your 4 questions agove will become clear by the way you answer my first one -- what kind of monk do you strive to be?

    Personally, I'm of the strong balanced monk philosophy (which I hope comes across clearly in my guide). In that scenario, I would hardly suggest sacrificing any defence for offence, and instead, focus on building a stronger defence and leaving the offence alone for now. I was playing with a DW 800K EHP monk with 125K dps through MP5 and nothing could touch him. No kiting, no need to avoid arcane beams, nothing. We only did MP5 because it was the upper limits that I felt comfortable for now. It was impressive, considering he wasn't that far above me paper DPS wise, but he introduced me to some idea around EDPS and it's something I'm thinking hard about now. A strong defense makes your offence so much more powerful.

    So in my view, getting more armor and then possibly looking towards more sustain after that might make you a more effective monk, but may be less flashy. Finding ways to get your armor past 6K will make your resistances so much more effective as well. For me, that'd be my focus... so my first purchase if I were in your shoes would be a well-rolled Vile Ward. I'd even swap out a bunch of those emeralds in your chest and/or pants to amethysts if you get a VW with decent dex. Once you do that, you can set yourself up for the potential of getting a good nats ring/boot combo without any sacrifice to defense - providing you are disciplined and insist on getting the right roll for your monk.

    However, if you are more focused on offence, and willing to sacrifice defense for that... I have nothing to say because that's not my focus in gearing my monk. You can probably get better advice from others in that case.

    Those are my 2c anyway.
    Edited by Nameless#1537 on 11/11/2012 6:32 PM PST
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    @Nameless,

    I wouldn't say EDPS is something I actively think about, but I've always felt that if you are frequently running away and hence losing DPS time, you should either increase your survivability without losing DPS or go to easier content.

    I think a lot of people come to this game from MMO's, where DPS uptime is a major consideration, so I think a lot of people are familiar with the concept even if they don't talk about it or label it EDPS.

    Good points indeed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Truth be told, this is the first ARPG game I picked up... well... ever. Last game I was heavily into was about 15 years ago (gives you an indication of my age), but I love RPGs, so I wanted to get into this one since the franchise has/had a pretty good reputation for good games. So thanks for the thoughts, as it spells out to me some ideas that people just knew on a deeper level.

    11/11/2012 08:53 AMPosted by Ruru
    @Nameless: I don't think LDPS will be good

    LDPS? I'm assuming you mean LAEK? If so, why not? And if you are saying EDPS, can you clarify what you mean by this? Thanks!
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    @ nameless
    Thanks for the advice, I agree on the tank vs pure dps monk choice, but I'm not sure you estimate my EHP properly.

    11/11/2012 06:01 PMPosted by Nameless
    I was playing with a DW 800K EHP monk with 125K dps through MP5 and nothing could touch him


    My EHP actually is 800k, and 1600000 if you factor in dodge. And I can run MP 6-7 and not kite unless I'm standing on a laser spout. Like actually on it, I can get hit by 2 beams at once while standing in molten and no probs as long as I'm hitting a monster. I also do 122k dps, and 136k with BoH.

    My main question is what to improve now that I'm pretty tanky, in order to get more dps whilst maintaining my sustainability. I totally agree a balanced survivable monk is much more efficient than a flashy glass cannon.

    Happy for any suggestions from anyone. Refer to my previous post too for some ideas I've had.
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    @Nameless: my bad, I mean LAEK.

    imo, there're not many situation where LAEK benefits you.
    usually we monk only need sustainability to survive against elite or boss (ubers). in both case you'll barely see any or no monsters left, which make LAEK totally useless.

    @FHvoids: I dont believe EF is end-game, it's expensive and the proc fear reduce EDPS.
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    @ nameless
    Thanks for the advice, I agree on the tank vs pure dps monk choice, but I'm not sure you estimate my EHP properly.

    I was playing with a DW 800K EHP monk with 125K dps through MP5 and nothing could touch him


    My EHP actually is 800k, and 1600000 if you factor in dodge. And I can run MP 6-7 and not kite unless I'm standing on a laser spout. Like actually on it, I can get hit by 2 beams at once while standing in molten and no probs as long as I'm hitting a monster. I also do 122k dps, and 136k with BoH.

    My main question is what to improve now that I'm pretty tanky, in order to get more dps whilst maintaining my sustainability. I totally agree a balanced survivable monk is much more efficient than a flashy glass cannon.

    Happy for any suggestions from anyone. Refer to my previous post too for some ideas I've had.

    Clearly, my ability to estimate EHP by eyeballing stats needs work. Oh man, I totally didn't see your HP when I was eyeballing it. I was wondering why I was so far off... I didn't see the 50K HP. I could have sworn I saw something in the mid 30s. So yeah, I dunno what to say then... :P
    Edited by Nameless#1537 on 11/11/2012 8:47 PM PST
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    what weapon setup would be the best for a budget of 300m for both?

    LS EF + LS WKL (both with sockets but mediocre damage?)

    or

    WKL + rare leech weapon?

    any suggestions?
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    2 weeks ago, i was in the dilemma for upgrade...
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004032980

    EF+ WKL monk:
    95k dps/37k HP/696 RA/5189 armour 2.2 AS/37.5 CC/296 CD
    1048 life regen/1011 LOH
    I am happy to farm in Mp4/5; uber boss 6/7 at the moment;
    I think i can live with it and maybe would want to go for uber 8/9/10 in future...

    So here are the choices i have in mind:

    1. Replace my Main Hand(EF) with similar dps EF with >2.5% LS + open socket? (last few 10xx dps EF sold in AH for 250-300m); I have not been using LS so far, do you think LS will be helpful and worth the investment? I have found a 950dps, 2.7 LS, socket fist weapon few day back (-15k dps compare to my EF; -8k compare to my WKL), i am thinking to keep it and swap when it is needed)

    2. Belt: Witching hour belt, which is giving me ard 7-9k dps boost? I been browsing ard and i think i want to go for dual resist, 9AS, 40+ CD, and maybe vit/life % in it so to keep up the EHP.. it may cost me ard 100-200m too.

    3. Natalya ring (9AS+ >4CC + >200LOH) + Natalya Boots? With the set bonus 7 CC, it will bring up 10k dps..



    Today, i have gotten my Nat's Ring (180m which i am sure is overpriced) + Boots(50m) + Witching Hour Belt (50m, wait for profile to be updated), and i am now at ard 118k dps...

    even though i know critC + CritD is the fastest way to gain dps, but i don't likt to play a 'slow motion' monk; therefore, IAS + CritC are always the priority when i gear my monk...

    And, last week i found a BT DC amulet with AS 9 + Crit Dmg 51, it gives a 6k dps boost, however, tested in DPS check thread:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7006895894?page=3

    MP5 (2 rounds) (47.5CC/296CD/MH2.37AS/OH2.59AS Amulet 1)
    Paper DPS: 108543 unbuffed with WKL
    Azmo HP: 25.7 mil If @Aplaudible's post
    Time to Kill: 28.8s/27.9s (average 28.3s)
    True DPS: 892k/921k (average 906k)
    multiplicative DPS factor: 8.2x/8.5x (average 8.3x)

    MP5 (test on new found amulet 42.0CC/347CD/MH2.35AS/OH2.58AS Amulet 2)
    Paper DPS: 113802 unbuffed with WKL
    Azmo HP: 25.7 mil If @Aplaudible's post
    Time to Kill: 29.1s
    True DPS: 883k
    multiplicative DPS factor: 7.7x
    **seem like more cyclones spawned is better than higher dps on paper, will stick to my old amulet.

    MP6
    Paper DPS: 108543 unbuffed with WKL
    Azmo HP: 36mil
    Time to Kill: 36.3s
    True DPS: 992k
    multiplicative DPS factor: ~9.1x


    Higher Crit Chance (AS) with more Cyclones helps to kill azmo slightly faster...

    And now, i am farming again, hopefully to upgrade
    1. Better Weapon with LS (LS + CritD + OS + got to be 1.4 AS or above)
    2. The BTDC Amulet i had was bidded (a mistake of mine) at 40m; as the LOW 5.5% CritC, will look for better one >9% CC, Vit/DEX or even best with Trifecta.. lol long way to...
    3. Refine every piece of gear to High Dex/Vit/Int/RA so toward the goal of 50k HP and say good bye to OWE one day...

    Just sharing..
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    what weapon setup would be the best for a budget of 300m for both?

    LS EF + LS WKL (both with sockets but mediocre damage?)

    or

    WKL + rare leech weapon?
    any suggestions?


    a 800+ dps + LS + OS WKL (20%+ lightning skill) will cost you ard 200m in AH;
    a 1100+ dps + LS + OS EF will cost you ard 250m in AH;

    WKL + rare leech will be better as a rare leech can roll LS+CD+OS; while

    WKL and EF can only roll 2 randoms; OS + (LS or CD)
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    @Edmericanpie

    I think the balance of Cyclones spawned to overall damage makes sense for you due to WKL bonus only applies to the Cyclones and not the actual SW.

    As you say I think the top priority for you should be replacing your main hand with something that has LS or innate CD. You are getting a pretty tiny amount of benefit from the IAS on yours.

    ----

    Update to my gear, got a good deal on an switch for my gloves this morning. Got a 70 vit on it and 11k globe bonus, lost the CD but more IAS and CC so overall the DPS is about even. Overall it's not a giant upgrade or anything but it gives me a bit more flexibility in other spots due to lower need to squeeze Vit into jewelry especially and the increased sustain from the globe bonus is a nice bonus, makes potions twice as effective in a pinch.

    Still got my eye on some Inna's Vast Expanses with higher Vit... also looking at some more damage oriented ammy's now that I don't need the Vit as much. After that I'll be saving up for a CC Nat's Reflection.

    (*Note that my profile right now shows my MP0/1 speed farming gear, switched out helm for spirit regen, bracers for pickup radius, and Unity for Hellfire ring)
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