Diablo® III

R.I.P. EHP

I know I have been very vocal about this topic in the past, mainly because I wanted to advertise there are ways around EHP, but I do acknowledge that it is important to some people. What I see as a meaningless statistic can be a good guideline for purchasing gear in the hands of someone who understands the stat and its limitations. I believe great points have been made on either side of the argument, and that people who are trying to learn the game while reading these message boards have enough information to make an educated decision on this topic now.

I no longer plan on involving myself actively in these debates, but if there is any legitimate questions from someone trying to learn the game directed toward me I will engage in that conversation, otherwise, happy gearing, however you choose to do so.
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ITT: Some people not knowing that EHP helps sustain too, through All Resist, Armor, and Block.
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This is the reason why everyone should be like Wayne and be done with this EHP debate.

FusRoDah thinks it helps with sustain but it doesnt. Most Barbarians think EHP means survivability wrong. This equation absolutely means nothing once in game. An equation that once used to do a decent job at measuring survivability, 3 patches ago, but now its closest definition anyone could come up with describing EHP is Gigahurts 'AFK defense calculator' explanation. Also virtually useless in-game.

Even though it has been 3 patches since EHP has held any meaning, people still think EHP means tankyness or survivability.

Half the barbarians that posted here cited 'EHP is still good' or vice versa were referring to the stats resist/HP/armor, and as a tanky playstyle, and not as an equation. When I proclaim EHP is dead, people think I mean 'All resist, HP, armor' was dead. This is not the case. Those stats are crucial in playing a Barbarian. The fact people can't distinguish EHP from survivability, when they are separate meanings entirely is why it needs to be scrapped.

The fact this post is 3 pages long, including the other several threads on this topic, and no one can give a clear concise answer on what exactly EHP mimics, is the reason why this old outdated dinosaur formula should die.

What does EHP represent exactly?

It doesnt depict survivability

It doesnt portray effectiveness

It doesnt represent tankyness

Now that lifesteal is so proficient and effective in Diablo 3 towards living EHP no longer has any meaning other than AFK death delay meter.

The only thing EHP measures is how much damage you can take if you accidentally DC before you die not factoring any weapon swinging or healing stealing on armor.

You still need high resist, armor, hitpoints, and lifesteal in order to sustain, survive, and be effective in Diablo 3, but none of these have anything to do with EHP as an effective survivability measuring apparatus.
Edited by Enxius#1327 on 11/12/2012 5:44 AM PST
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I have to agree with Enxius in that there is a minimum EHP needed to not die as long as you can sustain health (LOH, LS, etc) but everything over that threshold is just gravy. This threshold will be different for each barb due to differences in DPS, LS, LOH, Skill, Mitigation. I'm talking pure PVE here because that's the only option we have now.

Also, almost all barbs use red gems. If you really want more ehp its not difficult to switch them to purple.


the single most reasonable reply on this thread
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Instead of all the name calling and exaggerated posturing, would it be simply better to factor LS/Life Gen/LOH into the EHP formula? I suppose it would be more complicated but would it be possible? It would be pretty helpful and remain relevant.

edit: I realise this also means skills and passives that provide the effect.
Edited by rahl#6100 on 11/12/2012 12:11 AM PST
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Actually in current patch, I feel that leech is prolly one of most important factors in survivability or ehp?

Despite my low resist, my build enables me to substain myself easily with the decent dps and high leech I have. At the end of the day in PVE context, survivability should be based off one playstyle(spec), offensive capability(leech % , dps etc), and also defensive stats(resist, Hp, amour). This three main factors contributes to the so called EHP and should be flexible in distribution.

Eg. 800 resist all barb with 30k dps , no leech = crap imo
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1-2M EHP? I only have 0.5M EHP. Do I have any problem???
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Oh, and one more thing to Enxius -- I know you're upset I didn't accept your friend request, but don't write threads like these after leaving a message saying "I want GG Barbs on my friends list" if you didn't believe in the validity of EHP.

Owned. Trolled. See ya.


Wow, very childish of you sir. Sad to see, really is
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This thread gets the thumbs down from me. Its really dumb that you think you need to justify the game with a formula to figure out a person's EHP. When in fact its very simple and requires no math or trigonometry or advanced aerospace calculus.

Its simple:

1. Did your barbarian, while attacking, fail to regain all or most of its life?
If yes, then you need more Life on Hit and/or Life Steal, and some life regen for maintaining full health after the battle in between monster encounters.

2. Did your barbarian take a considerable amount of X type of damage when hit?
If yes, increase hp, all resistance, and armor (from strength)

3. Does your barbarian have the feeling of being squishy and can't take hits?
If yes, increase the hp, all resist and armor (from strength), along with Life Steal or Life on Hit.

Example: Tonight i did Mp10 ubers with some friends for the first time at that difficulty level. I noticed that with my normal setup i couldn't keep my life pool high enough, so after the first battle from Maghda and Skel King, i switched my offhand to one that had less dps, but 500+ LOH and 2.9% Life Steal.

Giving me a total of 1200+ LoH and 5.9% Life Steal with 235k dps (after rage). I didn't have to get 800 more resist, i didn't need to get 50k more life. Just increase the amount of life that i could steal from the enemy.

EHP isn't anything complex. If you feel squishy, add the above mentioned things. Should solve the problem. Diablo 2 was the same as Diablo 3. Life Steal (Life Leech it was called) was king in PvM Barbs didn't need to have insane resist (but they couldn't be negative) and they could get away with 20% LS and be fine, as long as they gained life from hits.

The game isn't a passive game, its kill or be killed. There is no point to a tank in this game.

My 2 cents
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Very well said Acrinomy, I dont mind these claims of Ehp being useless these guys will be 1 shot when Pvp comes around, I have just 800k ehp but 170+ Dps with only passives I tried to use innas pants but lose to much Ehp and just for 8k more dps. I dont like the thought of going backwards. A truly godly barb has a balance of Ehp and Dps.

To aquire 200k dps is easy and so is 2million Ehp, but to have a perfect balance of them both, that is what it truly means to be godly.

+1

+1


+1

Just hold to ur hybrid rings or other jewelries atm...it will be massively expensive before PVP patch come out. $_$
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This thread gets the thumbs down from me. Its really dumb that you think you need to justify the game with a formula to figure out a person's EHP. When in fact its very simple and requires no math or trigonometry or advanced aerospace calculus.

Its simple:

1. Did your barbarian, while attacking, fail to regain all or most of its life?
If yes, then you need more Life on Hit and/or Life Steal, and some life regen for maintaining full health after the battle in between monster encounters.

2. Did your barbarian take a considerable amount of X type of damage when hit?
If yes, increase hp, all resistance, and armor (from strength)

3. Does your barbarian have the feeling of being squishy and can't take hits?
If yes, increase the hp, all resist and armor (from strength), along with Life Steal or Life on Hit.

Example: Tonight i did Mp10 ubers with some friends for the first time at that difficulty level. I noticed that with my normal setup i couldn't keep my life pool high enough, so after the first battle from Maghda and Skel King, i switched my offhand to one that had less dps, but 500+ LOH and 2.9% Life Steal.

Giving me a total of 1200+ LoH and 5.9% Life Steal with 235k dps (after rage). I didn't have to get 800 more resist, i didn't need to get 50k more life. Just increase the amount of life that i could steal from the enemy.

EHP isn't anything complex. If you feel squishy, add the above mentioned things. Should solve the problem. Diablo 2 was the same as Diablo 3. Life Steal (Life Leech it was called) was king in PvM Barbs didn't need to have insane resist (but they couldn't be negative) and they could get away with 20% LS and be fine, as long as they gained life from hits.

The game isn't a passive game, its kill or be killed. There is no point to a tank in this game.

My 2 cents


I dunno how you figure this thread gets the thumbs down when you just summarized every reason in which I started it in the first place :P I didn't see a point to EHP either, how much EHP one has translates into nothing once in game, yet 5/10 barbs are confused into thinking it does, hence, this threads birth.
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Hi there, I'm an eu barb.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DarkRaven-2885/hero/3588495

I know, it's average gear but it's achieved without rmah by only playing 1-2 hrs per day.

I played this game from the beginning, I remember when barbs couldn't set foot in a2 without getting 1 shot, I have ehp in my blood.

The saying was that a dead barb has 0 dps, although it may be outdated a lot of barbs still have that old school training when buying items.

Anybody here remembers s&b zrave? He built 1mil barbs that can survive in a3 before any nerf. Rotating leap and ignore pain in those 15 sec of insanity, dancing around arcanes, those were the days, poetry in motion.

I still rate items like zrave did where 1vit = 1 str, also all res, armor etc translated in vit points with ehp calculator.

There is however a lot of truth in what the first posters said, with good life gain EHP is just the amount of damage you can get in a burst. If you can survive the biggest bursts in the game u have enough.

It depends also on what areas u are running, not just mp.

For example in fields of slaughter u can get killed before even starting spinning, from multiple spears. The same in the kulle fight.

Of course the end goal should be to get great ehp, great life gain, great dps.

But for efficiency in game it may be better to get high dps with good life gain aka life steal and keep ehp to a reasonable amount until u can upgrade ehp too for some extreme bursts like solo kulle or extreme monster affixes.

I can run mp10 a3, all of it, with ww or hota rend with relatively low ehp, however it doesn't feel comfortable, and I sure can't solo kulle sb.

It's all a matter of gold invested in gear in the end. I understand acrimony when he feels his uber gear can't do a lot more than some guys with mediocre gear.

The fault was nerfing the higher MPs which gave players something to work for, a challenge.

I don't like the fact that I can do mp10 with less than 500m gear and 10k hero score points, because it doesn't have any challenge for the future.
Edited by DarkRaven#2885 on 11/12/2012 3:03 AM PST
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@professor

Lol u did a better job in stating what I agree on. Well I'm lazy
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lol, another one of these =P
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hate to burst your bubble darkraken but zrave was scamming peps for gold and money. sure he had very good points but most of the time the builds he did couldn't do act3/had issues in act3
and when confronted by the angry mob he admitted just use ehp calculator
anyone with half a brain knows the ehp calculators are not perfect however until something better is developed to quantify and benchmark, ehp is the way to go
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I have to agree with Enxius in that there is a minimum EHP needed to not die as long as you can sustain health (LOH, LS, etc) but everything over that threshold is just gravy. This threshold will be different for each barb due to differences in DPS, LS, LOH, Skill, Mitigation. I'm talking pure PVE here because that's the only option we have now.

Also, almost all barbs use red gems. If you really want more ehp its not difficult to switch them to purple.


the single most reasonable reply on this thread


If swapping of GEMs can comfort you, you probably be crying when you lost 250str.
That's easily 25k-35DPS depending on your gears. Not fun.

And if you didn't built huge life%, AR and armor in your built, that 250vit is not going to help you much. Might be more detrimental instead since your gear's are towards cc,cd not %hp and defense.
Edited by Horngyuh80#6218 on 11/12/2012 6:49 AM PST
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Define EHP please as im not sure what it stands for. Thanks
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Effective Health Pool
Take it as a huge BAR of HP with AR, HP, evade, armor all in one.
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@Horngyuh80 Thanks, now EHP makes sense to me.
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