Diablo® III

Community's Thoughts On This Build

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fjRdhg!fXY!abacZY

I've been playing around with this build recently and have found it to be a fairly effective tank build.

-Fast Hatred Regen
-Great Discipline Regen (spam gloom)
-Decent Dmg
-No/Minimal Travel Time of Arrows (Doesn't get slowed down in Bubble defense)
-Fast Paced and Fun to Play

If you don't have high CC, you can use Vengeance instead of Night Stalker.

I'd love to hear the community's thoughts on this and discuss its pros and cons.

Would you use this build?
Why? Why Not?
Are there better variations?
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Steady aim in a tank build? Does not compute. Archery would be a far better choice.
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I would agree if you're rocking a Bow in order to get the 15% dmg increase. But If you're using a Crossbow and already have plenty of Crit Dmg like I do, then the extra Crit Dmg from Archery is marginal compared to the 20% dmg increase from Steady Aim.

In order for Steady Aim to be effective, you need to be at least 10 yards away from any target. It's actually not that far if you consider that the backflip from Evasive Fire (which is disabled in this build mind you) is 15 yards. Not far at all.

What I like about this build is that I generate a tone of discipline while simultaneously dealing a considerable amount of dmg.

My strategy when approaching a mob is to Mark for Death, hit Shadow Power, and then blast Multi-Shot. The result is a chain reaction of Marked for Death (which spreads like wildfire and can have multiple cycles running simultaneously), an almost instantaneous regen of discipline, and to top it off I'm now rocking 35% reduced dmg all while replenishing health. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying there aren't flaws with this build, but then again every build has its weakness.

Give it a try and let me know what you think. You're definitely equipped for it.
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I see what you are doing here. I run a very similar build. Although something I have found changed my thinking. I used to run the Fire at Will rune as my secondary so I could spam it. Then I used the Hardened as my primary for regen. Hardened procs more than any other Evasive Rune (Surge is reduced backflip cost is 2nd highest proc). I really liked this setup but with no backflip you tend to not be able to get away from mobs. I run shuriken cloud instead of marked for death because it last 2 minutes and if someone gets close you do damage without even attacking them.

Something amazing about Evasive Fire is that you can get +xx% to damage on at least 4 items. Mara's (Amulet), Nat's Embrace (Cloak), SoJ (Ring), Skull Grasp (ring). With these 4 items equipped I was doing +46% to evasive fire (I just changed to Inna's for Dex and my Rare ring boosts my DPS by 20k over the SoJ). But regardless of how you do your damage (I still have 25%) you will find that Covering Fire is just amazing. Hits 3 different objects and each one hits for 130% or (155% in my case). Because of this, you put it as your secondary so you can spam it. Then I switched to Full Broadside (although thinking of trying suppression) for the added damage. With this setup you can do a lot of damage and clean maps fast. I can spam elites with just the covering fire and melt them.

I will play around with mine a little bit more but I'm thinking maybe with suppression fire/nightstalker I can drop prep... add Marked for Death like you but be able to keep shuriken cloud. This would be ideal. Covering fire is just amazing though and gonna be hard to drop it for Hardened so probably won't do that.
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100 Tauren Druid
4610
Posts: 4,963
How do you have good DPS vs 1-2 targets?

M4D gets my approval, I'm surprised only 1/7 of DH's seem to use it

my tweak on it would be to ditch the bat, compensate for hatred with Mortal enemy + vengeance(instead of steady) and get a spender that is more DPS oriented (spike/cluster/elemental) instead of bat for the 1-2 target nuking efficiency
Edited by zoid#1554 on 11/12/2012 9:18 AM PST
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@Radelon

Interesting points. I didn’t really consider other Evasive Fire runes because they can eat away at discipline pretty quickly if you’re not careful. But with the high discipline regen from Night Stalker and Suppression I can see how Covering Fire would be a great alternative.

I’ll try out Shuriken Cloud on solo to see how I like it. However for group games Marked for Death (Contagion especially) is great for boosting everyone’s damage.

I actually had no idea Evasive Fire was a special skill on so many pieces of equipment. I’m definitely going to take that into consideration on future purchases.

Thanks for your input.
Edited by purePROPHET#1981 on 11/12/2012 10:39 AM PST
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@Korba

Well the DPS would remain the same regardless of the number of enemies, but yes you are right, with 1-2 targets my discipline regen rate is reduced. Under these circumstances (assuming I can ease off the Shadow Power spam) I switch my tactics to Vault – Trail of Cinders and use Evasive Fire with periodic bursts of Multi-Shot to keep my discipline at a healthy level and available for Shadow Power should I need it.

M4D is definitely underrated and Contagion allows multiple targets to each take the full 12% extra damage as apposed to dividing it amongst enemies in a given radius. I also like that enemies who get marked from the death of other enemies do not loose their mark when I start a new cycle on a different target.

I use Mortal enemy when I face Uber’s, knowing that I’ll have to use Suppression Fire more frequently to generate discipline and that I’ll need the faster hatred regen to accommodate.

You bring up an interesting point with subbing the companion with another spender. For the most part I can keep Health, Hatred and Discipline relatively full and could probably afford to add another spender for the extra DPS.

I’ll play around with it and let you know the results.

Thanks for your input.
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@Radelon

Interesting points. I didn’t really consider other Evasive Fire runes because they can eat away at discipline pretty quickly if you’re not careful. But with the high discipline regen from Night Stalker and Suppression I can see how Covering Fire would be a great alternative.

I’ll try out Shuriken Cloud on solo to see how I like it. However for group games Marked for Death (Contagion especially) is great for boosting everyone’s damage.

I actually had no idea Evasive Fire was a special skill on so many pieces of equipment. I’m definitely going to take that into consideration on future purchases.

Thanks for your input.


I have another Mara's but it has like 6.5 CC on it plus open socket and 12% to Evasive just sitting in my stash. I'm using the CD one because it gives me higher DPS boost (I know that sounds weird and actually haven't checked to see if it's better after I got the rare ring and boots... but I could check if you are interested in it). SoJ's are cheap now so you can find a good one with evasive on it for under 10m. To search for SoJ with evasive you have to search under all armor with Demon Hunter: Evasive skill and damage to elites.

I'm really anxious to try this out with Suppression Fire and replace Prep with MfD: Contagion. One thing I noticed with Multishot was Fire at Will shoots faster than Full Broadside, how fast does Suppression shoot?

Another factoid is that any Evasive skill that has the backflip is actually faster to farm with (because if you backflip into a wall it resets your animation therefore a free increase of attack speed), and once you get used to it, you will find yourself having better survivability. Coupled with Windforce it's quite amazing how mobs never even get close and if they happen to, you start backflipping.

This may not work for you and your manticore, but +average damage is flat amazing with Windforce. Look at my rare ring, it gives me a 20k dps boost over my 6% Cold Damage SoJ. My crits on all mobs are equal to crits on just elites when SoJ is equipped. And it only cost me 5m.
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@Radelon

Interesting points. I didn’t really consider other Evasive Fire runes because they can eat away at discipline pretty quickly if you’re not careful. But with the high discipline regen from Night Stalker and Suppression I can see how Covering Fire would be a great alternative.

I’ll try out Shuriken Cloud on solo to see how I like it. However for group games Marked for Death (Contagion especially) is great for boosting everyone’s damage.

I actually had no idea Evasive Fire was a special skill on so many pieces of equipment. I’m definitely going to take that into consideration on future purchases.

Thanks for your input.


I have another Mara's but it has like 6.5 CC on it plus open socket and 12% to Evasive just sitting in my stash. I'm using the CD one because it gives me higher DPS boost (I know that sounds weird and actually haven't checked to see if it's better after I got the rare ring and boots... but I could check if you are interested in it). SoJ's are cheap now so you can find a good one with evasive on it for under 10m. To search for SoJ with evasive you have to search under all armor with Demon Hunter: Evasive skill and damage to elites.

I'm really anxious to try this out with Suppression Fire and replace Prep with MfD: Contagion. One thing I noticed with Multishot was Fire at Will shoots faster than Full Broadside, how fast does Suppression shoot?

Another factoid is that any Evasive skill that has the backflip is actually faster to farm with (because if you backflip into a wall it resets your animation therefore a free increase of attack speed), and once you get used to it, you will find yourself having better survivability. Coupled with Windforce it's quite amazing how mobs never even get close and if they happen to, you start backflipping.

This may not work for you and your manticore, but +average damage is flat amazing with Windforce. Look at my rare ring, it gives me a 20k dps boost over my 6% Cold Damage SoJ. My crits on all mobs are equal to crits on just elites when SoJ is equipped. And it only cost me 5m.


I don't really notice a difference in the firing rate of Suppression, but if there is one its marginal.

I tried out Covering Fire and to be honest I had a hard time with it. The backflip makes it difficult for me to control my discipline, which is a key trait in this build. Being able to spam Gloom keeps incoming damage at almost a constant 35% reduction, plus hardened increases my armor an additional 25%. I think these two things combined make for an effective tank.

I do however like the addition of Shuriken Cloud. I got rid of the companion and added Vengeance instead of Steady Aim to compensate for the loss in hatred regen. The fact that Hardened allows enemies to get close to me without backflipping allows Shuriken Cloud to be very effective.
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Do you run nightstalker too? I would have to think that between Nightstalker, Suppression Fire that the backflip should keep the disc pool up. I could be wrong I guess but will definitely give it a shot.

It's just the backflip is awesome for anything the windforce doesn't knockback or stop. But maybe the Surge (reduces cost to 2 disc instead of 4 on backflip) would make it viable, just gonna be hard to part with the multi target damage of covering fire.
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The problem is that this build gets a bit tricky with less enemies because its not as easy to fill discipline as it is with lots of enemies. I find that when the mob is good and dead it's just the elite pack left, Evasive Fire becomes a liability.
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Posts: 1,244
this was a popular 1.0.4 build back when TOC was OP, except:

- you don't use perfectionist, you use vengeance instead
- replace steady aim for archery
- replace mark for something else, e.g. Prep/backup plan (when you wont have problems for vs small amounts of mobs like you describe)

Using perfectionist means you're likely going to take hits. Using steady aim means things won't hit you, they don't make sense to be together though

I think the passives should be something like: Archery, TA, Vengeance or maybe TA, Vengeance, NS for non-legacy users

The reason for those passives is because it's an MP0/MP1 build, relying on those skills for DPS is super inefficient unless you 1 hit ko most mobs (and therefore, you'd want TA for mobility, and Venge because you're killing fast & getting globes a lot)
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this was a popular 1.0.4 build back when TOC was OP, except:

- you don't use perfectionist, you use vengeance instead
- replace steady aim for archery
- replace mark for something else, e.g. Prep/backup plan (when you wont have problems for vs small amounts of mobs like you describe)

Using perfectionist means you're likely going to take hits. Using steady aim means things won't hit you, they don't make sense to be together though

I think the passives should be something like: Archery, TA, Vengeance or maybe TA, Vengeance, NS for non-legacy users

The reason for those passives is because it's an MP0/MP1 build, relying on those skills for DPS is super inefficient unless you 1 hit ko most mobs (and therefore, you'd want TA for mobility, and Venge because you're killing fast & getting globes a lot)


Very good points. I still think M4D is good for group play as everyone gets the benefit, but I'll play around with these passives to see what combination works for me best.

Thanks for your input.
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11/13/2012 12:32 PMPosted by purePROPHET
The problem is that this build gets a bit tricky with less enemies because its not as easy to fill discipline as it is with lots of enemies. I find that when the mob is good and dead it's just the elite pack left, Evasive Fire becomes a liability.


I did some playing last night, but not a lot. I found that Marked for Death is nice but it's really not worth it. IDK about you guys but since you can only target 1 at a time it is almost wasted space. I mean I took Prep out and had no problems staying alive with Suppression and Nighstalker using Covering Fire with it. I honestly am thinking it might be time to retry my Frost Arrow build. Having Cull the Weak active instead of Nighstalker, and wearing Frostburn's with 6% as Cold Damage and 30% more damage to cold skills.

I will have to play with this a bit to figure out the best scenario for damage but I'm thinking this will play out like this: (replace rare ring with cold damage SoJ)

This should net +12% damage as cold overall:

Frost Arrow 170% + 30% on Frostburns + 15% on Cull = 215% Damage
Evasive Fire 130% + 35% from Items + 15% on Cull = 180% Damage

Might give this a shot, seems like it could be really good for damage.
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11/13/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Radelon
The problem is that this build gets a bit tricky with less enemies because its not as easy to fill discipline as it is with lots of enemies. I find that when the mob is good and dead it's just the elite pack left, Evasive Fire becomes a liability.


I did some playing last night, but not a lot. I found that Marked for Death is nice but it's really not worth it. IDK about you guys but since you can only target 1 at a time it is almost wasted space. I mean I took Prep out and had no problems staying alive with Suppression and Nighstalker using Covering Fire with it. I honestly am thinking it might be time to retry my Frost Arrow build. Having Cull the Weak active instead of Nighstalker, and wearing Frostburn's with 6% as Cold Damage and 30% more damage to cold skills.

I will have to play with this a bit to figure out the best scenario for damage but I'm thinking this will play out like this: (replace rare ring with cold damage SoJ)

This should net +12% damage as cold overall:

Frost Arrow 170% + 30% on Frostburns + 15% on Cull = 215% Damage
Evasive Fire 130% + 35% from Items + 15% on Cull = 180% Damage

Might give this a shot, seems like it could be really good for damage.


That's not a bad idea. I wouldn't mind hearing the results of that build.

As for M4D, which rune were you using? With "Contagion" you mark 1 weak enemy and when you kill him it spreads to 2 and so on and so on. Also, once the initial mark is dead you are now free to start the cycle over again on another target who isn't marked yet and all of your previous marks will remain active. When done correctly you can have almost every monster marked, each one taking an additional 12% dmg.
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I'm wondering what sort of gains you would see with a better DML quiver with Multishot CC...With 56% CC and a possible additional 10% + your 400% CD...imagine 66% CC at 400 Damage!

Plus, with your huge CC wouldn't HA - SoT work well both as a hatred gen and a decent single target damage?

I used to like the Evasive Fire / Cluster Bomb approach for DPS as well, but it's tricky and the range isn't exact. Plus Fast mobs it's uneffective as heck...

With high enough hatred regen you might be able to use 2 spenders, EA - BL and Multi that way you have decent ranged single and multiple mob options...?
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100 Tauren Druid
4610
Posts: 4,963

Frost Arrow 170% + 30% on Frostburns + 15% on Cull = 215% Damage


Frost arrow is 155% the 170% is only for the "splits" that hit the non-main targets (tested)

however these are multiplicative conditions, so they are much more powerful

1) the cold of the frost arrow is 155% weapon
2) 6% more damage as cold 155%*(1+6%) = 164.3%
3) the condition of 30% more cold damage means 164.3% * (1+30%) = 213.59%
4) the condition of the snare with Ctw is the 213.59% * (1+15%)

= 245.6%

the use of M4D is very helpful in a team environment
mortal enemy for hatred generation considerably prolongs the use of spenders...
however DT or GR can be better from a team perspective
Edited by zoid#1554 on 11/13/2012 10:51 PM PST
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Frost Arrow is just not as effective as Multishot.

Frost Arrow I saw crits on Elites in the 400k range.

Multishot: Broadside on current(although blizzard not updating) crits are over 400k on all mobs.

With FA, you would need to maintain your CC and CD you lose and gain it somewhere else. Using the Frostburns just effect your char too much. And they effect both skills a ton. I think if you could have >35% CC and >300% CD it would still be viable.

But I might have stumbled unto something even better. 6% damage as cold has a snare, and that snare is applied before the damage, therefore running a SoJ with cold will trigger Cull the Weak and give you a 15% damage bonus as long as your skills aren't elemental. Also this is nullified if you have an Inna's belt.

I am going to play some more but there's a chance , albeit small that the 30% to cold skils gets applied too, because of the cold damage.
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