Diablo® III

Critical Damage too much a necessity?

1) Problem: Any weapon without Critical Damage is trash. I would really like to see some of the interesting legendaries like Vigilance, Wizard spike etc actually be useful.

2) Proposed Solution: Tax/Diminishing returns on CD.

First 100 CD from gear and skills, no change resulting in total of 150% CD
Second 100 CD from gear and skills, only gives 50% resulting in total of 200% CD.
Third 100 CD from gear and skills, only gives 33% resulting in 233 CD.
Fourth 100 CD from gear and skills, only gives 25% resulting in 258 CD.
Fifth 100 CD from gear and skills, only gives 20% resulting in 278 CD.

Thus it is not advisable to stack too much CD. Having 200% from gear is actually good enough and you can then stack other things. 200% CD can be achieved with just rings, amulet and witching hour, meaning even Wizard Spike, Azurewrath, IK BB, Inna Diabo and countless other interesting weapons are not totally pointless.

3) OP is a noob/retard/needs to L2P/get better

I have a 400% CD in total with a LS Skorn on WD. I will be affected as well. Maybe it is time we care less about the RMAH value of our gear and more about fun. Itemization is bad in this game and there are so much trash legendaries that could had been good. This is one of the key ways to help fix that.

4) What about MP10 !!!???!!!

Health scaling can be reduced. At the same time, Reflect damage will be less of an issue.

5) I can see it! This is another Nerf Barbarian thread in disguise! Nerfing CD and LS (indirectly via lowering damage), both which the barbarian can get more than other classes! You can't hide it from me!

Well I have actually always said Barbarian is fine and doesn't need a nerf. But on the whole the game is badly balanced. While barbarians will feel the changes a bit more keenly than others, it is a sacrifice I'm willing to make. There are many very interesting items my barbarian would like to use but can't, Burning Axe of Sankis, IK BB, Maximus.

6) Conclusion

Blizzard has never listened to me when I go on my random suggestions of the week so this isn't happening anyway. But hopefully the more intelligent and thoughtful of the viewers will catch what I'm going on here. Ok I'm suited up in my flamesuit, come at me. :-(
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 12/14/2012 1:08 AM PST
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1) Problem: Any weapon without Critical Damage is trash. I would really like to see some of the interesting legendaries like Vengence, Wizard spike etc actually be useful.

Ok I'm suited up in my flamesuit, come at me. :-(


Well atleast you know it's a bad idea already. Pro Tip: If CD is reduced or removed weapons without the next best stat will be worth the most and the others will still be trash. Use your brain please.
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any weapon without LS/loH for non-barbs is trash. Nerf LoH/LS

any weapon without high damage is trash. Nerf high damage

any weapon without socket is trash. Nerf sockets
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any weapon without LS/loH for non-barbs is trash. Nerf LoH/LS

any weapon without high damage is trash. Nerf high damage

any weapon without socket is trash. Nerf sockets


I'm for all of these changes, but you forgot that running around quickly and efficiently makes any boots without movement speed trash, nerf +Movment speed.
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^ To the two posters above, your logic is flawed. Nerfing CD does not meant the next stat in line will be nerfed. The issue here is that CD is way out of line in terms of effectiveness.

At assuming 50% critical chance, each 100% CD is a direct 50% increase to DPS. Seeing as the CD cap (excluding skills) is 750 CD for barbarians and 650 CD for others, CD can potentially increase DPS by 325% to 350%.

Meanwhile, attack speed is capped at 72% in gear so that is only a fifth of CD's potential.

Socket is only for Emeralds and is part of this discussion to be nerfed.

Primary stat and weapon damage is untouchable. I saying they can't actually do anything about it even though it should had been like D2 where their relationship is additive than multiplicative. But that is different story.

LOH/LS/movement speed has nothing to do with making non-CD weapons' useable in terms of damage, wtf are you talking about? Don't go off topic.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 11/5/2012 9:25 PM PST
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any weapon without LS/loH for non-barbs is trash. Nerf LoH/LS

any weapon without high damage is trash. Nerf high damage

any weapon without socket is trash. Nerf sockets


I'm for all of these changes, but you forgot that running around quickly and efficiently makes any boots without movement speed trash, nerf +Movment speed.


innas pants +lacuni.

^^
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11/05/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Wtflag
At assuming 50% critical chance, each 100% CD is a direct 50% increase to DPS. Seeing as the CD cap (excluding skills) is 750 CD for barbarians and 650 CD for others, CD can potentially increase DPS by 325% to 350%.


I can see it! This is another Nerf Barbarian thread in disguise!
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You require CC and CDMG to make the whole critical damage path worth using. May as well nerf crit chance if you're so into it.

Any item without the best stat is going to suck. WHY? because people, bads, goods, normals, whatever, will NOT want to sacrifice their huge ego wtf numbers for gimmicks. That's their choice, not yours. You make the choice. I run around with sprint + marathon, ITF, rend+ravage, hammer + the AE effect, and cleave. Warcry too ofc. is it efficient? no. does it work for me? yes. My choice. You can make the same too.
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^ To the two posters above, your logic is flawed. Nerfing CD does not meant the next stat in line will be nerfed. The issue here is that CD is way out of line in terms of effectiveness.

At assuming 50% critical chance, each 100% CD is a direct 50% increase to DPS. Seeing as the CD cap (excluding skills) is 750 CD for barbarians and 650 CD for others, CD can potentially increase DPS by 325% to 350%.

Meanwhile, attack speed is capped at 72% in gear so that is only a fifth of CD's potential.

Socket is only for Emeralds and is part of this discussion to be nerfed.

Primary stat and weapon damage is untouchable. I saying they can't actually do anything about it even though it should had been like D2 where their relationship is additive than multiplicative. But that is different story.

LOH/LS/movement speed has nothing to do with making non-CD weapons' useable in terms of damage, wtf are you talking about? Don't go off topic.


CD isn't out of line no more than CC is. They both go hand and hand. An argument that CD is too OP can easily be changed to saying that CC is too OP. 750% Crit Damage is a 350% bonus with 50% crit chance. HOWEVER you are also forgetting that 50% crit chance is a 350% bonus with 750% Crit Damage. See the issue?

You can't compare IAS to CD. IAS is a vacuum stat in that it does a flat bonus on its own. CD is 100% entirely dependent on your crit chance and vice versa.

The tongue and cheek rebuttal is completely in line with your arguments line of thinking in that any item without XYZ stat is deemed useless. This can be applied to multiple stats.

edit: if anything CC is OP. It's the one that allows barbs to have infinite resources, Wizards to have infinite freeze and archon, and Monks to have mass cyclones
Edited by Providence#1541 on 11/5/2012 9:33 PM PST
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I think most are missing the point. There is really 1 viable building in the entire game and it applies to all classes...Max Crit build. All else is trash.
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All offensive stats synergise, CD with low CC is useless and in turn, low main stat, high CD and CC is also useless.

You diminish return on CD, it's more likely to push the price up of items even more because everyone will need more CD to achieve godly dps.

Btw, if you want to use those legendaries, go for it. Just remember the same argument you used can be used for any other stat in the game
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11/05/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Stormer
I think most are missing the point. There is really 1 viable building in the entire game and it applies to all classes...Max Crit build. All else is trash.


First off thats entirely wrong. All of the top dps use Crit damage, Crit chance, and IAS.

secondly. There's 3 dps stats, 2 of which are tied intrinsically together. How much diversity were you expecting?
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^ CC is fine. Because a number of class builds, skills and item properties hinge on CC. In particular CM wizard, WW barbarian, skills like overpowered, APOC etc.

I have no wish to see those builds broken, hence I have not touched on CC.

Nerfing CD will only result in a damage nerf which can be countered by adjusting how MP scales.

Nerfing CC will result in changes to too many things. And that is besides the point because weapons don't give CC!

I can't use IK's Boulder breaker because it doesn't roll CD and socket (well it can, except it will cost 10000 trillion gold) and is crap compared to Skorn. Nerf CC wouldnt help it. But nerf CD so it you can hit the "softcap" of 250 CD with just gloves, rings and amulets means it can be useful now.
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Metagames changes

Pre-1.03, no one cared about critical damage, its all about attack speed and resistances, since anything above act1 is crazy high damage.
1.03, critical hit damage and chance is the new way to go high damage, but all resistances gear is also popular and standard, due to crit gear meant going glass cannon, mob damage is still high, and legendary gear are bad.
1.04, damage nerfs and paragon leveling begin to put even more emphasis on kill speed, which meant crit setups and movement speed gears are ore valuable, while pure main+vit+res gears are dropping in price.
1.05 introduced monster level, making high damage gear the new standard, and the end of the all resistance era.

It is very easy to get at least some critical damage on weapons, but once beyond a point, getting more means reducing your mitigation and healing, so it's overall balanced. You are asking a nerf because a lot of crit damage gears are extremely expensive today. If suddenly all critical damage gears are 10k a piece, you are not going to ask for a nerf. The no crit damage legendaries are just an illusion to how you see it, you want to use those because they are cool yet cheap.
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^ To the two posters above, your logic is flawed. Nerfing CD does not meant the next stat in line will be nerfed. The issue here is that CD is way out of line in terms of effectiveness.

...


..You missed their point, not that their logic is flawed.
Edited by Avril#6674 on 11/5/2012 9:49 PM PST
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It was a poorly designed system from the start. Then they add MP levels where a player NEEDS the crit/crit to have any hope of carving down those insane hit points.

Really lazy by Blizzard.

The game is littered with anomalies like this one.
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For me (barb with a HOTA build), the refect damage affix for elites and uber bosses is painful enough. CC/CD don't really need a nerf.
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