Diablo® III

Corpse spiders: Best single target attack?

I tried looking for a definite answer, but I did not find it. Some say crits do not work properly, but I do see yellow numbers when I attack.

For example:
Blazing spiders & Leaping spiders, do they really deal ~600% weapon damage per jar?
Is this the best single target skill the WD possesses? (Besides perfectly targeted bears)

I have been using this against ubers for a while and it does indeed seem pretty powerful, but since nobody uses them I would like some assurance of someone who tested it post 1.0.5.
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I believe SB/Spirit is Willing or Wells is the best, single target (no bears). SB/SOwilling is single bolt but the other is a three bolt that can hit 1 target with tricky targeting.

I used SOW for a while but went back to CS/Widowmakers/VQ Passive combo to handle mana issues I have with MP8+.
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SB's damage per second is still lower. 65*3+230 is still 'only' 425% weapon damage. Thats a lot less than 600%. Also you need to take a lot of precautions to have enough mana.

With best single target I meant highest damage output on 1 target with a lot of hitpoints. I am not implying it would be best for other purposes.
Edited by Chewing#1625 on 11/13/2012 5:26 AM PST
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Cirts on spiders was fixed in 1.04. Damage numbers on spiders is per jar, so divide by 4 for single spider damage. So a jar of leaping spiders does 144% damage.

One thing to keep in mind is that spiders take advantage of attack speed. So how much attack speed you have is part of the spider damage equation.

I'm not a fan of Spirit Barrage or Haunt, but some people would say those skills are better than spiders for single targets.

In the end it comes down to how you like to play.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/13/2012 5:31 AM PST
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So you are supporting my statement that a jar does indeed deal 156%*4=616% weapon damage?

Haunt does not stack. So this is actually really crappy if you have just 1 target.

So to be fair this is actually the only attack you really need vs uber bosses. This means you can get very defensive passives, rather than mana regen passives, enabling you to survive on high mp, whilst dealing a lot of damage.
Edited by Chewing#1625 on 11/13/2012 5:34 AM PST
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No, I'm not supporting your statement. A jar of leaping spiders does 1.44% of your damage as physical. One spider does 38% physical damage.

Per your equation spiders do more damage than bears and this is not the case.

I also edited my post to add that attack speed has a big impact on spider damage. More speed = more spiders.

I have no idea if spirit barrage or haunt benefit from attack speed.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/13/2012 5:36 AM PST
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To start I use leaping spiders and with 41% crit chance.

Just a few things about leaping spiders that people overlook:
1. if you throw in a general area of an enemy they have 0% chance to miss.
2. each spider hit counts towards the crit chance so in my case 2 out of 5 attacks is a crit.
3. Spiders seem to be much more affected by attack speed visually because they have a set time on when they would disappear.
4. with my attack speed i can get the 7th jar of spiders on the ground before the 1st jar vanishes.

so if i had to compare spiders to anything I would say they are like a void ray beam from starcraft that have a min and max dps based on the number of jars you could get on the ground. (starts low and goes up in dps). it's 1 jar of spiders doing 144% weapon dmg not 4x the spiders getting 144% each. Just that when you have 6-7 jars on the ground it looks more like 6-7 times 144% because that's really what's going on. (explained below)

For the example say you can have 5 jars on the ground at most to keep it simple.
- 1 jar hypothetically lasts say 5 seconds
- 1 jar of spiders if you sit there and watch them should roughly do 144% of your "weapon dmg" not your dps so crits are overlooked.
- 2nd jar of spiders goes on the ground, 1st jar of spiders is still doing 144% of your weapon dmg as well as you 2nd jar so in the 2nd second you are doing 288%
- this goes the same until the 5th jar where jar 1's spiders will vanish and be replaced by jar 6.

Hope this helps.
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Oh and to mention the 4 spiders divide the 144% by 4 i think someone said that while i was typing out that whole thing.
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Yeah, I totally misread the tool tip.

Thanks for clarifying everyone.
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So lets say with LS scorn I have 156k dps, and with a 1hd/offhand I have 159k (i gain 9 crit, lose about 130%CD) should I use spiders with the LS (bigger numbers too) or should I run them with 1hd/oh. I feel the crits are so small with 1hd/oh then the skorn.

I love the CS/Widows with the VQ its amazing combo, just cannot get used to the 1hd/oh, should I use that since its 3k more dps on paper?
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I think I have a more straight forward way of explaining it.

Take your DPS, divide by 4, then multiply x crit damage %.

So if my DPS is 80,000/4 = 20,000 per spider X 200% = 40,000 DPS crit per spider which appears in yellow.

Since I often have some stacks of Soul Harvest or GF, crit calculation probably just does use weapon DPS.

Anyway the largest crit number I see on a leaping spider, no matter how many stacks of GF or SH, are never more than the high 40,000 range.
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with my 1hd/of they crit about 40k, 2hd they crit 67-74k on white mobs, but how do I determine if ias of a 1hd/oh over a skorn makes up for that damage? Guess I should run a couple with 1hd/oh and then some with LS skorn see the difference.
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@Dropsy.

Since you also use bears, I would hesitate to say you should change to a one hand + mojo so you can throw spiders faster.

Many Skorn users apparently cannot get used to "bearing" with a one hander, and will read you the riot act on "mana efficiency with a 2 Hander" if it is suggested that someone switch to a one hander.

I switched to a 1 hander from a Skorn and I like the faster bear animation from the one hander. You just have to learn not to mash your bear key to control your mana usage.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/13/2012 5:59 AM PST
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@ Dropsy

Take the difference in your weapon speeds Skorn 1.0 attack speed. 1 hander 1.4 attack speed.

So if all your gear stays the same you should do 40% more spider damage per second than the Skorn based on your base damage x your crit damage %.

I think your big difference is that the 1 hander has no where near the crit damage of the Skorn which gives the big damage differences.

Also I believe spiders do deliver the bleed damage from the Skorn.
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I don't understand...
It seems to me that dog sacrifice or wall of z. should be the answer to your question.
But no one brought it up...
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according to my calcs and tests, spiders actually do about 335% damage. this was consistent throwing one jar and seeing the damage, as well as spamming it for 10 seconds and crunching numbers.

this might be helpful: http://i.imgur.com/c5vUE.jpg

these are from my own tests and my own dps calculator, so take it for what it's worth
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Corpse Spider do 120% (w/o rune) WEAPON DAMAGE BEFORE DIE, which sounds to me like a dot.

And just follow any rule of DoT, 2hander(skorn) is better than 1hander+offhand.
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Blazing spiders & Leaping spiders, do they really deal ~600% weapon damage per jar?

No, they don't. They (Blazing) are listed as doing 156% damage overall, but after testing it with the DPS meter I'd say they are doing closer to 300%, which is still really good.

Is this the best single target skill the WD possesses? (Besides perfectly targeted bears)

Nah, Spirit Barrage/Well of Souls is still better. Blazing is competitive if you dump all your mana gear and focus on damage, but then you've hamstrung yourself from being able to use other high-mana skills like Bears or AC.
Edited by Jasonator#1483 on 11/13/2012 9:57 AM PST
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I have no idea...

All i see...

I have 90k+ DPS... and yellow number on my leaping Spider is approx 20k - 23k...

So me think is good.

I basically see it when i'm tanking elite.. +1393 LOH though. Just need a bit more i should be immune... :P

Probably need 2,000 LOH i think i should be able to just sit and throw jar... without doing anything.
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@ Dropsy

Take the difference in your weapon speeds Skorn 1.0 attack speed. 1 hander 1.4 attack speed.

So if all your gear stays the same you should do 40% more spider damage per second than the Skorn based on your base damage x your crit damage %.

I think your big difference is that the 1 hander has no where near the crit damage of the Skorn which gives the big damage differences.

Also I believe spiders do deliver the bleed damage from the Skorn.


I really hate to get into another 1h/2h debate but when you say the skorn has so much more crit dmg than a 1H everyone always forgets that a 1H may only give you up to 200% crit dmg but your mojo can give you up to 10% crit chance also that you lose with the 2H.

When i unequip my mojo my damage drops in HALF and its not even that great of a mojo.
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