Diablo® III

Corpse spiders: Best single target attack?

Blazing spiders & Leaping spiders, do they really deal ~600% weapon damage per jar?

No, they don't. They (Blazing) are listed as doing 156% damage overall, but after testing it with the DPS meter I'd say they are doing closer to 300%, which is still really good.

Is this the best single target skill the WD possesses? (Besides perfectly targeted bears)

Nah, Spirit Barrage/Well of Souls is still better. Blazing is competitive if you dump all your mana gear and focus on damage, but then you've hamstrung yourself from being able to use other high-mana skills like Bears or AC.


WoS does more damage, but the mana difference is the kicker for me. I don't really use corpse spiders for single-target damage anyway, i just spam them for longer elite encounters when i get low on mana. the damage/mana spent is incomparable.
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according to my calcs and tests, spiders actually do about 335% damage. this was consistent throwing one jar and seeing the damage, as well as spamming it for 10 seconds and crunching numbers.

this might be helpful: http://i.imgur.com/c5vUE.jpg

these are from my own tests and my own dps calculator, so take it for what it's worth


i am not sure how you came up with those numbers, I have tested spiders and the 144% dmg tooltip was accurate for me. that is exactly how much dmg they do.

it is a very simple test, the best real world dps test is to simply go kill ghom and time it.

i remember back when i tested spiders on him, i did it with 85K dps, you simply time it and then do the math.

85Kdps X 144% X AS = 210K dps for spiders. (for me)

gohm on nightmare with 1M HP i would kill him in just under 5 seconds roughly which is just over 200K dps so it is accurate.

on inferno mode he has 8M HP so it would take 38 seconds to kill him which came out to the same 210K dps for spiders for me.
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when i throw a single jar, i do about 137k damage on average, and i have 65k dps. the 65kdps factors in my attack speed. my true 100% weapon damage, based on all my stats, without attackspeed factored in, is about 41k.

you may be doing 85kdps, but that doesn't mean 85k is your 100% weapon damage, that's the big difference

so 137k/41k = 3.35 give or take

for the 10s test i basically spammed spiders for as long as i could, recorded it, took a chunk of time the guy wasn't shielding me and figured out how much damage i did over a certain time.

after 10 seconds i did 2.2 mil damage, which is 220k dps, which is 336% of 65k, my posted dps

edit: i should mention i tested this stuff in mp10 on a lodged demonic tremor.
Edited by EindacorDS#1385 on 11/13/2012 10:35 AM PST
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i should give another disclaimer: i cannot attest to any runes other than blazing spiders, i should have been clear about that to begin with, but i'm trying to multi-task (proctrastinating at work) and its not working, so i'm a little scattered.
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i got back and forth on this i love leaping spiders they changed the way i play by far. best spell in my book i do a circle strafe like on quake 2 on champ packs. i have started using splinters again as i find acid cloud to be more usefull the high dps i get. bears are still there for when things get close and i just need them to die right away.

all in all i love the fact that out of all the classes i can log on any night and play any build i can think up and make it work.

now i have to deside more crit dmg or is 9% posion worth it? who is the math wiz
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@ Dropsy

Take the difference in your weapon speeds Skorn 1.0 attack speed. 1 hander 1.4 attack speed.

So if all your gear stays the same you should do 40% more spider damage per second than the Skorn based on your base damage x your crit damage %.


This is severely misinformed.

Take Reco's 1-H/mojo setup (he has the highest WD DPS on diabloprogress.com) against my Skorn. His EF deals 632-1162, and his mojo deals 127-464. That's an average damage of 1192.5 per hit. My Skorn deals 1165-1712, which gives an average damage per hit of 1438.5. That is a 20.6% increase per hit.

Now, he attacks at 1.44 base against 1.0, so if we have identical gear otherwise he's going to deal 19.4% more damage than I do. IF he can pay the mana for it. Which he can't, given gear and build.

There's a whole lot of other reasons to run 2-H over 1-H (and for some conditions the converse is true), but we have enough threads on that already.

As for the OP's question: Bears will do the most damage if you exploit corners (and walls that behave like corners) to fire Bears single file. In the absence of that, the math pretty clearly favors Well of Souls.
Edited by MartinAlvito#1712 on 11/13/2012 10:57 AM PST
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widowmakers gives the most dps because you can spam your nukes alot more with them around :p
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in my book: crit chance > crit dmg

always.

i find it way more efficient to crit more often for less dmg and crit less often for more crit dmg. but to each his own...
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[quote]In the absence of that, the math pretty clearly favors Well of Souls.


WoZ: pile on does 25% more damage than SB, and is AOE...... and has knockback

not for everybody though, need to sacrifice some dps to gear up and involves a different style of play
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@ Digitman

We are just discussing damage, not the chance the damage will occur.

I wrote what you quoted to show how damage works differently on 1H with greater attack speed than a 2H Skorn using spiders.

When I say .40 times more damage per second difference between the weapons I am referring to base damage of each weapon calculated separately. The 1H does 140% of its base damage in the time the Skorn does its 100% base damage whatever that is.

When we are talking crit damage, I am referring to the crit damage on the character. Whether or not the crit chance goes up or down was not part of the previous discussion.

I am not trying to make a case for using a 1H or a 2H with spiders. This conversation has really strayed from OPs comment on spiders doing 600% damage.

The big damage increase you see in equipping a mojo, is because the main purpose of a mojo is to provide weapon damage. High average damage on a mojo, (250+) and crit chance are two of the big benefits of having a mojo. Without mojo damage we would all have to use 2 handers.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/13/2012 11:50 AM PST
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in my book: crit chance > crit dmg

always.

i find it way more efficient to crit more often for less dmg and crit less often for more crit dmg. but to each his own...


Actually you're doing yourself a disservice if you have more of one than the other. CC/CD works best when you have an equal amount of both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiHkSIdd6xg&feature=youtu.be
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in my book: crit chance > crit dmg

always.

i find it way more efficient to crit more often for less dmg and crit less often for more crit dmg. but to each his own...


Actually you're doing yourself a disservice if you have more of one than the other. CC/CD works best when you have an equal amount of both.


Yes and no. In terms of pushing tooltip DPS, you do want to keep them in a roughly 1:10 ratio.

In practice, crits hit so hard that they'll one-shot things that would otherwise require several shots. You can dramatically cut the odds that you'll need to fire multiple attacks to clean everything up by pushing CC, which saves time. This is particularly true with attacks like Sacrifice that can hit multiple times.
Edited by MartinAlvito#1712 on 11/13/2012 11:55 AM PST
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This is the thread you want, an experiment measuring damage per second for various skills:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004034025?page=1
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that's actually the post that made me want to do my own testing. proof is in the pudding, try throwing one jar of blazing spiders and see how much damage it does. take your dps and divide it by your attack speed. that number is your weapon damage. now compare your weapon damage to how much damage you actual dealt.
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@MCP

I used the DPS meter, and I'm not sure whether @Jasonator corrected his observations later in the thread, but his numbers are skewed for crit chance and crit damage.

When I factored in my crit damage I was more or less seeing stated skill damage on spiders. I disagree with his conclusion that Blazing Spiders do more damage than leaping. He fails to take into account the fact that leaping always hit. The meter just shows the highest single hit damage, not damage over time.
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@MCP

I used the DPS meter, and I'm not sure whether @Jasonator corrected his observations later in the thread, but his numbers are skewed for crit chance and crit damage.

When I factored in my crit damage I was more or less seeing stated skill damage on spiders. I disagree with his conclusion that Blazing Spiders do more damage than leaping. He fails to take into account the fact that leaping always hit. The meter just shows the highest single hit damage, not damage over time.


Not sure what you mean by factoring in your crit damage. You did some calculations or something?

My observation was comparing Blazing Spiders to a few baseline skills, namely Splinters. In my case Splinters was peaking at about 220k while Blazing was peaking at about 350k. If Splinters was truly doing 180% damage, that puts Blazing closer to 290%. It was a pretty brief test and who knows how much bleed damage factored into it.

How does your Splinters damage compare to your Blazing damage?
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Spirit Barrage (WoS) is still better than Blazing Spider. However, most WDs are not built like DH with whole bunch of +attack speed.

Blazing Spider should do less damage than SB because it only costs 5mana - the cheapest WD spell.

It is completely possible to make a strong Blazing Spider build IMO. I just have never tried because you need different kind of gear and sacrifices more survival for attack speed/critical.
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I think spiders will be killer in PvP (medusa's slow should eff with ppl good.)

In terms of pure Single Target DPS per cast, pretty sure Splinters does the most, especially if you got high +poison dart dmg and Crit Dmg modifiers.
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11/13/2012 10:18 AMPosted by DiGiTLMaN
it is a very simple test, the best real world dps test is to simply go kill ghom and time it.


OK this was a really good idea, so I fired up MP0, equipped my LoH weapon, and did some timings. They were a bit different from what I was seeing in the DPS meter (cool!). Blazing did well but not nearly as well as the DPS meter lead me to believe it would. I wonder if it changes based on who you are fighting?

(multiple numbers indicate multiple tries)
  • Flaming Darts ....... 34s
  • Splinters .............. 31s
  • Blazing ................ 27s, 26s
  • Well of Souls ........ 18s, 22s, 18s
  • Plague Bats ...........24s, 27s
  • Corpse Bomb* ...... 20s, 24s
  • Dire Bats .............. 33s
  • Cloud of Bats ........ 15s
  • Fire Pit ................. 43s
  • Rain of Toads ........32s
  • Bears ................... 11s


*ran low on mana after he was mostly dead
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