Diablo® III

Corpse spiders: Best single target attack?

Jibikao, I agree. Though i would argue that bears are perfectly in line with other classes in a big picture comparison.

If you recall the patch 1.05 notes on WDs specifically. Little was done.

I do question the attention given by blizzard in recent patches to WDs regarding skills which have no impact on our efficiency and core abilities. It all amounts to developers out of touch with the class, and/or poor internal testing.

Lets channel that in a collective effort to get noticed on the r/diablo subreddit. A place they do read.
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The range increase for the extra soul is such a great buff. Before this buff, I had to stand at about 20-25' radius to direct the souls. The distance was literally the same as Bear's. In that regard, WoS has almost no advantage.

If they have room for improvement, I would do the following:

1. Spirit is Willing does 230% and return 53 mana (20% improvement) - for very fast attack speed build and increase Proc Coefficient from 100% to 130%. Faster speed and better proc makes sense.

2. Well of Souls does 230% main and 85% on Extra souls.

3. Phantasm: Remove cap or increase it to 6. I don't see why there is a cap for WD when Wizard's Wicked Wind does 252% over 6s.

4. Phlebotomize: I would completely redesign this rune.

Version A: I'll change it to when you Critical, it adds 100% extra damage (just like Strafe's Sting rune) - for Critical/CD build, so we finally have one Critical rune.

Version B: When you critical, it does 65% AoE damage with 10' radius (think of Spray the Teeth)
I like Version B better because SB can use a decent small AoE build.

5. Manitou: Increase track range to 40' yard from 30 yard. Gotta make sure SB has much superior range.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/14/2012 5:08 PM PST
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I like WoS as is. It could use some reduction in cost for sure. And make WoS+RoE on 4pcs zuni to be spammable and frees a passive slot.

Let's look at it this way:

Bears: pro: Piecing+AoE con: melee range+high cost+can be blocked by waller

WoS: Pro: has some auto targeting+medium cost/spammable/very long range con: Mediocre damage+fickle mechanism

It is true that using WoS as one and only mana expenditure seems a bit weak. But I don't think every mana spending skill should be able to take on the role of being the main damage source. It excels at some situations and that is good.
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/14/2012 4:48 PM PST
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nvm
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/14/2012 6:18 PM PST
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Also, all skills that do "physical damage" should arguably be a bit weaker since it will receive full benefits from a cold damge SoJ/Tal rasha etc...

It is free multi target snare.

If you haven't noticed, they are very cautious about assign physical damage to skills.


Physical damage and +Cold damage on Rings don't cause Snare. :(

The only way to cause snare is with "weapon damage" that has Physical damage and not Elemental on the weapon. The runes will say whether it does "weapon damage" or does certain type of Damage which includes Physical.

I know this because I am using a SOJ with +cold %. :D
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/14/2012 5:05 PM PST
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Physical damage and +Cold damage on Rings don't cause Snare. :(


Really? that is very different from spectral blade

Well I am not at all surprised by Bliz's inconsistency
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11/14/2012 05:07 PMPosted by DanSkyWalker
Physical damage and +Cold damage on Rings don't cause Snare. :(


Really? that is very different from spectral blade

Well I am not at all surprised by Bliz's inconsistency


Spectral blade description says it does "weapon damage" - which can be any elemental or "black" physical damage.

SB's description specifically says it does Physical damage.

Wd has no skills that use "weapon damage" so the +cold snare does not work with WD at all.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/14/2012 5:10 PM PST
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SB's description specifically says it does Physical damage.

Wd has no skills that use "weapon damage" so the +cold snare does not work with WD at all.


D;
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Lets channel that in a collective effort to get noticed on the r/diablo subreddit. A place they do read.


I'll check out that website later. I see you created a topic about WD's mana problem. Did you create a topic about how to buff other skills/runes to match Zombie Bear?
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Great thread. Am looking forward to more results.

Surprised to see that our primaries are not really matching tooltip. I'll do some testing myself and will report back here.

I had tested previously and found spiders doing more damage than darts despite what the tooltip said. Will record kill times, my DPS, Ghom health, and will put together a table :)
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Anyone knows why Spider is doing more damage? We thought 4 spiders doing 154% total but that's not the case.

Do spiders always hit twice or only sometimes? If they all hit twice before dying, that's 308% weapon but Ghom test has shown that it's not as high as 300%. I would say maybe around 200-210%?
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110 Undead Warlock
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A post I made a while back:

I tested the numbers by throwing a bunch of jars and calculating how much damage they did.

Unruned Spiders do 20% weapon damage per bite.
Leaping Spiders do 24%.
Blazing Spiders do 26%.

In general, divide the total damage on the tooltip by 6 to get the damage per bite.

Spiders hit somewhere between 8-12 times per jar. I personally counted 9 times pretty consistently, but it was very hard to tell. That implies that Corpse Spiders (minus Spider Queen, which I didn't test) are about 50% stronger than the tooltip states, if all the hits connect.

Spiders are pretty damn strong. If you get 9 Leaping Spiders hits, that's 216% weapon damage!
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A post I made a while back:

I tested the numbers by throwing a bunch of jars and calculating how much damage they did.

Unruned Spiders do 20% weapon damage per bite.
Leaping Spiders do 24%.
Blazing Spiders do 26%.

In general, divide the total damage on the tooltip by 6 to get the damage per bite.

Spiders hit somewhere between 8-12 times per jar. I personally counted 9 times pretty consistently, but it was very hard to tell. That implies that Corpse Spiders (minus Spider Queen, which I didn't test) are about 50% stronger than the tooltip states, if all the hits connect.

Spiders are pretty damn strong. If you get 9 Leaping Spiders hits, that's 216% weapon damage!


Thanks for the test.

So on average, Spiders hit 9 times? Impressive. I know they hit a lot more than what the tooltip says but I don't know why they would do that to make Spider better.
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Now I'm interested.

I will go kill Ghom on MP0 with various skills and make a spreadsheet.

I may even combine DoTs + main attack.


I've started this by only doing the primary attacks, such as RoT, Splinters, WoS, etc.

Now I've started a list of which DoTs + primary attacks to combine.
Please add suggestions for me to test:
Blazing Spiders and Acid Rain, PtV
RoT and Acid Rain, PtV
Widow Makers and Bears, No PtV (Might kill Ghom too fast with gear)
WoS and Haunt (MR), Trying PtV first, else no PtV
WoS, Grasp of the Dead, and Haunt (MR), Trying PtV first, else no PtV
WoS and Acid Rain, no PtV.

Here's the first draft of the spreadsheet I've put together:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AnpveMxENzcldHc2ZGRicFJDNUxlcThHeWxxVU8wcFE&output=html

And my character setup:
http://d3up.com/b/70667

One can see on my character setup that I use no other skills which add damage or change my DPS.

Besides my primary and/or secondary attack:
I use horrify armor rune.
I use spirit walk life rune.
I use Hex life rune.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 11/25/2012 12:50 PM PST
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Check out the thread below for a great build that uses Medusa Spiders.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7200061181
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I love reading about Tests!!

One quick question. What does "Std Dev" mean?

Man, Blazing Spider with PtV is on average 25% better than Splinter? (5s faster). Wow.

WoS didn't get much improvement from PtV and it may not be sustainable for battles much longer than 20s.
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1. By the way, one combo you can test is a spammable + Resentful spirit. This combo has potential but it's hard because you need to cast it every 2s.. not too early or too late to get that 383% weapon.

2. Another test is Spirit is Willing + PtV which is a lot more sustainable than WoS. Against Ghom, if the battle lasts too long, his slimes will distract the extra souls which means only 230% hit Ghom. SiW + PiV will focus on Ghom all the time. To see SiW's effectiveness, MP needs to be higher because 12-15s battle will always favor WoS.

3. Also, I think Hungry Bats should be good against one target. Feel free to try.

Good luck!

Keep up the hard work.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/25/2012 1:46 PM PST
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Std Dev, Standard Deviation.
It's a mathematical function in statistics and probability that refers to dispersion or variation from the average.

With only five data points each, it doesn't mean much, but if I get to say 100 data points, it might show something interesting, such as a particular skill having a high chance of being a lot slower or faster than the average time.

This is important with WoS because it shows the user error or other factors. E.g., the slimes taking up some of the spirits or spiders damage.


WoS didn't get much improvement from PtV and it may not be sustainable for battles much longer than 20s.

Part of my spreadsheet is whether it is sustainable. Under the 'Skill Use Description' tab I noted WoS + PtV + BR was not mana positive for my setup, at 59 mps. I tested this by standing in town and blasting until my character said OOM about 25~30s later. My mana per second was oscillating between about 108 and 112.5, iirc.

1. By the way, one combo you can test is a spammable + Resentful spirit. This combo has potential but it's hard because you need to cast it every 2s.. not too early or too late to get that 383% weapon.

Sorry I am confused, what specific skills and what is the pattern? Do you mean blazing spiders + haunt resentful spirit?

Also, I just tested, and with my setup SiW, PtV, BR, and RoE is not mana positive. However, if I used spirit walk honored guest, PtV, blood ritual, and RoE, it becomes nearly infinite, that is I was spamming it for at least 2 minutes. I don't imagine a scenario where I could stand still that long and not have to move. If I moved, I would certainly be mana positive.

edit: Fyi, I am updating the spreadsheet as time goes by. I added three or four more tests, including SiW and widow makers/bears.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 11/25/2012 9:18 PM PST
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Sorry I am confused, what specific skills and what is the pattern? Do you mean blazing spiders + haunt resentful spirit?

Also, I just tested, and with my setup SiW, PtV, BR, and RoE is not mana positive. However, if I used spirit walk honored guest, PtV, blood ritual, and RoE, it becomes nearly infinite, that is I was spamming it for at least 2 minutes. I don't imagine a scenario where I could stand still that long and not have to move. If I moved, I would certainly be mana positive.

edit: Fyi, I am updating the spreadsheet as time goes by. I added three or four more tests, including SiW and widow makers/bears.


Yeah, any spammable with resentful spirit because it does 383% weapon from one cast. It's probably not even worth the effort to keep it up every 2s. :( Because my WoS does at least 500% per cast so every time I am not using WoS, I lose out 500 weapon. Blazing spider probably has about 200-220% weapon so casting Resentful is a gain during long fight except it's annoying to keep it up every 2s. :(

Yes, SiW with PtV is not positive. I have to use draining spirit once/twice and then it becomes infinite once I have enough stacks of Rush.

I'll check out the spreadsheet later. Cyber Monday is so busy at work! Thanks for the hard work.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/26/2012 11:57 AM PST
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<3 this thread.
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