Diablo® III

Corpse spiders: Best single target attack?

Updated with Haunt Resentful spirit. Very nice kill speed, second fastest only compared to widow makers/bears.

If you can stand there and alternate Haunt, primary, haunt, primary, and so on, it's mana positive with PtV, VQ, and BR, and it does good damage.

I also tried spiders, haunt (h), h, h, h, h, ... until I thought I was too low on mana and then switched back to alternating. This ended up being slower than the above strategy because I guess Haunt overwrites itself.

Link hasn't changed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AnpveMxENzcldHc2ZGRicFJDNUxlcThHeWxxVU8wcFE&output=html
Edited by MCP#1477 on 11/26/2012 7:15 PM PST
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Updated with Haunt Resentful spirit. Very nice kill speed, second fastest only compared to widow makers/bears.

If you can stand there and alternate Haunt, primary, haunt, primary, and so on, it's mana positive with PtV, VQ, and BR, and it does good damage.

I also tried spiders, haunt (h), h, h, h, h, ... until I thought I was too low on mana and then switched back to alternating. This ended up being slower than the above strategy because I guess Haunt overwrites itself.


Awesome! I had a feeling Resentful can improve but the question is is it too annoying to keep it up all the time after 2s?

I am surprised Spirit is Willing with PtV only finishes at 15s second. :(

Blazing + Resentful has very nice 11.4s mark.

WoS + Resentful can be a bit tough to do because you need to aim off the target, although I've noticed that Haunt actually "auto homes" within certain radius. You don't even need to target Ghom when you aim off him.

If WoS + Resentful is too hard to do, try Spirit is Willing + Resentful.

(And yes, Haunt cannot stack)
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/26/2012 7:44 PM PST
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By the way, thanks for testing this because it does open up a new possibility for Uber run if somebody is fine with refreshing Resentful every 2s. In fact, I may try that this weekend. :P

My best setup with my lack of mana regen is Draining Spirit and WoS. I would try to refresh every 10s (6s is too fast for my taste) to get mana and just spam WoS nonstop.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/26/2012 8:04 PM PST
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I added:
WoS + Blazing spiders + RoE + VQ + PtV

I was going to try SiW instead of WoS, but WoS is definitely mana positive in this case, at least at 1.0 aps and probably much higher since VQ synergizes with RoE.

With PtV, RoE, VQ, WoS, and BS.

Without VQ up, I could get up to a mana regen rate that was oscillating between 108 and 112.88.

With VQ up and no RoE, I am at 76.7, with a base of 59 mana per second.

With VQ and RoE, I could get upwards of 140 mana per second.
76.7-59 = 17.7
140-112.88 = 27.12

If I could get 112.88 * 1.3, it would be 146.74 and 108 * 1.3 is 140.4, so pretty much if I stand there spamming against a boss, with BS, WoS until spiders die, BS, I may get the mana regen oscillating between those two numbers.

So they do synergize :).

Edit: While testing this I added in Acid Rain and ran around the keep just to see if I could maintain mana, and it seemed like I could keep my mana up with BS+WoS and then if I needed HP, I could dump Acid Rain two+ times as needed.

edit2:
It's really easy to alternate BS + Haunt resentful spirit when I was standing still. The technique for mouse pressing was actually really easy. I could just hold down left mouse button for even half a second and the spiders would come out. Likewise with the right mouse button for Haunt. No where near the timing required for other games I've played, such as Tekken.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 11/26/2012 9:52 PM PST
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Looks like Blazing Spider + Resentful seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to get ST damage.

Did you try SiW + Resentful or WoS + Resentful?

Throwing spider once and change to WoS just seems like too much work but I can see how Widow can work because it takes them like 2s to complete all the attacks?
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I remember checking this thread the week it was posted. Just wondering if anybody with WD as their main (obviously not mine, guess I'd consider it my secondary character at this point) has tried making Blazing Spiders their top source of damage?

I'm trying it right now and for spending under 5m, with 5 stacks of GF and SH I'm over 100k dps with +44% CS dmg, +14% LS dmg, and +23% dmg to fire skills (a la WKL on monk). I tried using Searing Locusts but even with the Axe of Sankis I think Pestilence is still better.

I'm just wondering if anybody has tried something like this with 100-1000m+ and if so, was it viable? I guess on higher MP GI wouldn't really be viable so I'd probably replace it with either JF for survivability or ZH for more dmg via Burning Dogs or Fetish Sycophants.
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I remember checking this thread the week it was posted. Just wondering if anybody with WD as their main (obviously not mine, guess I'd consider it my secondary character at this point) has tried making Blazing Spiders their top source of damage?


Can't say I haven't thought about it but I think to make Blazing worthwhile, you need a different setup that mainly focuses on IAS. Basically build your WD like a Wizard/DH.

The only reason I won't change gear right now is that Fetish sucks. If they somehow improve Fetish, then I'll definitely find the gear to try. Fast attack speed has good synergy with Fetish except that Fetish isn't worth gearing for atm.

Another benefit of Spider build is that it's almost never "overkill" because spiders change target after the main one dies. Very little wasted dps there.

And I also think Spider could be very good in pvp. So cheap to spam and you just spam the hell of it (Leaping spider) and let them track.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/27/2012 2:10 PM PST
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Looks like Blazing Spider + Resentful seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to get ST damage.

Did you try SiW + Resentful or WoS + Resentful?

Throwing spider once and change to WoS just seems like too much work but I can see how Widow can work because it takes them like 2s to complete all the attacks?

Will get to all spirit tonight.

Spiders to WoS is actually not that bad. You can toss spiders where you want to click for WoS because the spiders track the boss easily. The hard part with WoS is keeping your mouse in the right spot as the boss moves around, even with Ghom, to keep all 4 spirits channeling. I just glance at the VQ timer once in a while to make sure I should cast spiders.
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WoS only is better than WoS + Haunt Resentful Spirit.

Just do some quick math at 1.0 aps and 2.0 aps:
1.0 aps:
WoS only: (230+65*3) = 425% weapon damage per second
WoS+HRS: (230+65*3 + 383) / 2 = 404% weapon damage per second

2.0 aps:
WoS only: (230+65*3)*2 = 850% weapon damage per second
WoS+HRS: ((230+65*3)*3 + 383) / 2 = 829% weapon damage per second

Now another argument is whether you can really keep WoS perfectly hitting like that.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 11/27/2012 8:44 PM PST
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Haunt as supplemental damage is better with something besides Resentful Spirit, because you'll be interrupting your primary attack less frequently.
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I expect, just like with Blazing Spiders and Resentful Spirit, that SB: SiW + Resentful Spirit will pair well together.

SB SiW:230% Weapon damage per second
SiW + Haunt RS: (230+383)/2 = 306.5% weapon damage per second

I just wonder now about mana sustainability, so I decided to test.

I have to recant my previous statement, it seems SiW + PtV + RoE is mana positive (no blood ritual) without honored guest. I had PtV, RoE, and Jungle Fort. Base mana regen is 59 at 1.0 aps.

And SiW + Haunt Resentful Spirit + PtV + RoE is also mana positive at 1.0 aps with 59 mana regen.

Will test that combo tonight and add it to the matrix.
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WoS only is better than WoS + Haunt Resentful Spirit.

Just do some quick math at 1.0 aps and 2.0 aps:
1.0 aps:
WoS only: (230+65*3) = 425% weapon damage per second
WoS+HRS: (230+65*3 + 383) / 2 = 404% weapon damage per second

2.0 aps:
WoS only: (230+65*3)*2 = 850% weapon damage per second
WoS+HRS: ((230+65*3)*3 + 383) / 2 = 829% weapon damage per second

Now another argument is whether you can really keep WoS perfectly hitting like that.


Yeah, WoS with Resentful probably makes less sense because WoS' weapon per cast is higher than Resentful.

SiW with Resentful makes more sense.

That's why I only use Draining Spirit during Uber because Draining is 575% for 6s. I don't normally refresh draining that often. Maybe once every 10-15s.
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11/28/2012 07:27 AMPosted by Jasonator
Haunt as supplemental damage is better with something besides Resentful Spirit, because you'll be interrupting your primary attack less frequently.


But Haunt in general just sucks. Damage is low, DoT takes too long, jump radius is much less than Swarm and the duration isn't refreshed like Swarm.

It's really a very poorly designed skill. Only draining spirit saves the day and even that is debatable if you are not using Rush of Essence.

I usually only use Haunt during Uber and last night I took it out for my usual MP5 key run and it is horrible. I did not feel it was adding anything of value for my run. Sometimes I got bored and just cast Haunt and wait for it to kill after 6s.... T_T
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/28/2012 12:04 PM PST
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Okay so this is weird, SiW+Haunt resentful spirit with PtV ended up taking more time than Blazing spiders+Haunt RS. See the spreadsheet for details...

Can someone independently verify this?

Maybe I need to measure five more each and see, or maybe it's something interesting.
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@MCP

Good stuff, subscribed, bookmarked, etc. Thanks for sharing.

I have one suggestion: could you add a column on the second page for effective DPS? Just take Ghom's health and divide by kill time. Better yet: take that result and divide by paper DPS and display as a percentage. (Use the unbuffed paper DPS even for the PtV trials.)
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Yea good idea, I'll add effective DPS next to normalized kill time.

I'll figure out the details tonight.
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Okay so this is weird, SiW+Haunt resentful spirit with PtV ended up taking more time than Blazing spiders+Haunt RS. See the spreadsheet for details...

Can someone independently verify this?

Maybe I need to measure five more each and see, or maybe it's something interesting.


That's odd... the only explanation I can think of is that Blazing has higher than 230% weapon but I find that hard to believe.

You used to have one column for just SiW + PtV. How many seconds did it take? Is it better or worse with Resentful? If I remember correctly, it was about the same?

Another explanation is maybe Ghom has higher Physical resistance. Do bosses even have Resistance?

I don't know man. These tests show me two things.. either Blazing is too good or Spirit Barrage still needs more buff because the mana cost is more than 10x of Blazing. :(
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/29/2012 10:30 AM PST
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BS with PtV at 16.6s versus SiW with PtV at 15.4s; SiW wins by 1 second on average.

This is why it's fishy.

I am going to re-run it, but I clearly remember BS+H:RS being surprisingly fast. I am going to try again with both regardless.

I'll just make two new rows and see if they match up well with my first tries.

On it tonight.
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BS with PtV at 16.6s versus SiW with PtV at 15.4s; SiW wins by 1 second on average.

This is why it's fishy.

I am going to re-run it, but I clearly remember BS+H:RS being surprisingly fast. I am going to try again with both regardless.

I'll just make two new rows and see if they match up well with my first tries.

On it tonight.


Thanks!

1s difference between SB And Blazing still makes Blazing better because Blazing build doesn't need any mana tactic while SB + PtV will need two mana tactics.
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Perhaps doing your tests on a higher MP would yield more meaningful results.

IE a variance of 1s between results when the total time is 15s isnt as meaningful as one with the same percentage of variance, but 10x longer fight.

Just saying there is likely a higher chance of error with a short fight.

IE i could jump into MP0 Ghom, and Bears him down in seconds, without any regard for mana.

IDeally you would pick a MP level that you can stand still ad not die, but attack non stop =)
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