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I was wondering about this recently and now that I grabbd decent Calamity on AH for cheap (1115dmg, IAS 11%, crit dmg 89%, dex 119 hatred reg 1.28..) I am even more confused.
With all IAS I have on gear I get 2,47 attacks per second which is awesome comparing to 1.68 with manticore and all I can see as a minus is much les crit dmg. Since I am not critting that much I dont mind that even because I can actually see how fast my DH can shoot now. On the other hand couple of diff simulators agree manticor is better.
I also saw couple of great DH gears with Calamity that made me think about it even more. Would really appreciate hearing what experience others have with Calamity vs Manticore.
@batusai with your DPS that is hardly an achievement. with almost half your dps i've seens 600k bolas. yes the dps is the same but its a matter of play style prefernce. obviously youd be hitting more times that 400~500k. but i think if you had a manti similar to mine you'd be hitting 1m crits. so thats somthing to think about
With 2 socket manticore there is a potential to lose 200%crit dmg from gems and 50% from passive (Archery) plus potential diff between rolls on manticore and calamity - that is a lot of dmg. You do get 10%crit hit from archery for that 50% crit dmg and AS that technically also increase the chance for crit as you'd be hitting more shots. Then there is Marked for Death with additional 12% dmg - apparently more effective on higher levels when it takes longer to kill.
I was also curious about gamestyle - range DH might rather have stronger hits while tanky DH may prefer faster shooting and higher crit chance? I am playing tanky DH so will try both manticore and calamity tonight but I am far from good enough to actually conclude something relevant on it.
@Ana You mean missing out on 100% damage only. Please do keep in mind that Calamity has the chance to roll 100% crit dmg on itself and it can roll a socket. You will only miss out maximum 150% damage including passive.
I personally prefer Calamity. It provide a greater variation of style and flexibility in play style with a little sacrifice on burst damage count. U do more hits, generate hatred faster, put out hatred faster, deal more small damage in a short time which amount out to almost the same damage as burst damage.
I agree while Manticore offers more burst damage, it is not really good in the sense of utility. I am using Calamity with the Gloom + Spike Traps - echoing blast and I am blasting my way through mp5 without a problem tanking the monsters at 78k dps. Inferno mp6 take a little more work and concentration, it is plausible, but for molten/arcane/desecrator combos, it will take some time. And the fact that I am doing more hits of lower damage , I can practically out live RD elites without much problem with a little kitting. Whereas, most Manticore users probably just blow themselves out with their own burst skill only to find out that that elite is RD IMHO.
This is my skill choice :
Note that most of my resistance dont even reached 300 baseline.
I have reasons for the trail of cinders if you ask me. Turn Gloom on and roll over an enemy and see your life recover! It is the only skill that ticks that fast for DH. I always use it to balance out my life if I am not able to sustain my life tanking too much monster at a time and provide me a way out of the raging mob. Combining my equipment with the speed of shooting out my bola shots and putting out my spike traps. My discipline is almost never empty. I tried using it without legacy nats and I am pretty confident to say that if you have at least 2.86 atk speed with decent armor, life and damage, you can tank like a monk. Hear me, like a monk. Meaning, you can only endure hits from mobs but not long period on desecrator, never on arcane, a little on molten and briefly on poison pool. Always avoid them, use vault whenever necessary.
Edited by TenJou#1278 on 12/17/2012 7:46 PM PST
Dual Wielding a Calamity plus a Danetta's Spite can yield even more critical damage percentage than the best possible roll on a Manticore. PLUS you get the 10% critical chance from Archery, which is HUGE. That being said, they are two different play styles. I've used Manticore, Windforce, Calamity/DML, and Calamity/Spite. My favorite thus far is the Calamity/Spite. Although, for tank purposes, I will switch to the DML, for the extra HP. Still, I had a near 1200dps 100% crit Dual Socket Manticore and I am at the same DPS with my Calamity/Spite (even just a bit more dps).
True, your individual hit number maybe slightly lower, but you do THE SAME amount of damage. That's how attacks PER SECOND are calculated. Don't let big numbers fool you. You're doing the same amount of damage. If you do 600k crit with a manticore in 1 second, and you do two 300k crit hits with a Calamity in 1 second, which one is doing more damage in 1 second?
@TenJou thank you for your informative post, it is just what I was hoping for! Realized later that Calamity also can roll with a socket, so sorry for my mistake and I am now even more in a favor for it!
And I am happy to see you are using very similar skill choice as I am, and ToC for similar reasons, just havent tried MP4 or higher so far. I will try it tonight with both Manticore and Calamity to see the difference for myself.
-- low lvl farming
-- MP 10 boss solo run
-- MP 10 4 ppl game, if there is no CM/WW/Nova wiz and teammates are very weak
-- maybe in pvp?
-- MP 10 4 ppl game, there is a CM/WW/Nova wiz or teammates are ok.
Each has its advantage. It is really a choice betwen resource regen vs. damage, which means you probably should keep both and swap in different scenarios to optimize.
But one thing we should agree on, Calamity is more fun.
Finally, take a look at my sweet Calamity
I am using a decent Calamity, paid about 200M for it.
I got a steal on a Manticore for my follower at 1M (probably worth 10-20M). Just to check it out I compared the two and I lose only 2k dps by going to the very cheap Manticore and that's only with a 90% crit gem. In other words, you can literally spend a quarter of the gold or less and get the same paper dps or get a lot more paper dps for the same price by getting a Manticore.
If all you care about is paper DPS there is no question Manticore is better for the dollar, and better at the very top end because Manticore can roll dex, CD, and 2 sockets. Best you'll get with calamity is CD and one socket.
So it comes down to playstyle and preference. If you really prefer faster attack speed and the mobility and comfort of playing with fast attacks and animation then go with calamity. Just don't expect the same DPS.
Id rather use a Calamity simply because I don't like attacking slowly with my Manticore. Problem is that a Calamity with a socket is ridiculously expensive, and without a socket I lose a crapton of DPS. Honestly a socket should be a guaranteed roll on Calamity, its dumb how none of the legendary one handed crossbows roll with one. It also sucks how Calamity can only roll one property and doesn't even have any dex/vit on it as guaranteed rolls.
i wanna see a calamity that is stronger then my manticore.
he can use MFD too..
and let's be honest, your calamity isnt something one can find/buy easily
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