Diablo® III

Manticore vs. Calamity

I had so much fun with 600k Calamity on MP3, alone and with tanking barb in the party, that I can hardly believe what I was missing. After this joyful experience I am not considering going back to Manticore regardless of higher crits. Significantly more shots and effects, and crits with it, much faster reactions and playing is turning much more active, and might say more suitable to my idea of DH, fast, vigil and very vivid with all the flashy explosions around. Definitely prefer it over Manticore.

And wow at some amazing Calamities on your profiles!
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I prefer Calamity. Crit hits at faster rate is almost the same as high crits in a slower rate.
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Like everyone else said, it depends on play style.
But to me i will not go back to 2hand xbow because:
- It is just more fun shooting ultra fast (3.04 speed, with mempho =3.2)
- Dh is suppose to be FAST
- Fast shooting helps moving around, dodging
- faster resource regen for offense / defence

Unlike u guys i dont think i crit for 600k damage... I guess about 200k or so

Also when deciding duel weild or with quiver, i go with quiver
I lose huge crit damage, LoH from danette
But i gain crit chance, huge speed, huge stat- dex n vit

If u can, try to reach attack speed 3.0, u wont regret XD
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Family ur gear is freaking crazy Wow...
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I'll stick to my bow, thanks. I like my 1m+ crits.
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Personally I have switched to Calamity/Spite combo. I like the spike dmg and the speed of how fast I'm hitting. Though I understand my hits are probably lower but the sheer speed more then makes up for it. Like a lot of you here have said already, Manticore has burst dmg, but it's still paper DPS. Calamity w/ Spite or DML will do as much if not more if your gear is very good. It's just Manticore is cheaper. (Cheaper in the sense that it's every where and it comes with an OS.)

I have a DH setup w/ a Manticore and my main DH is with Calamity/Spite. While the burst dmg from the Manticore is quite amazing to be honest, it's WAY too slow for my taste. I hit fast and crit quicker with Calamity/Spite (or DML).

As a personal preference I have always preferred and prioritized Speed over Power. I tried very hard to stay loyal to the Bow but, lets be honest. Bow in D3 isn't spectacular, it doesn't do anything well, just average in all categories. I'm very happy I switched to Calamity/Spite, it definitely suits me better. (Although I kept my DML too :P) So yes, it really does come down to how you prefer to play. Some prefer Speed over Power, some prefer Power over Speed. In this case, Speed is Calamity and Power is Manticore.

If you honest to god care for your paper DPS then Manticore but at the end of the day, Calamity will put out as much if not more simply because of your IAS/Crit Dmg/Crit %. (If your gear unchanged for both weapons for test.)

I prefer Calamity/Spite (or DML) over Calamity. Just my 2 cents.
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I love mine, I doubt I will be replacing as mine took almost a month to find.

:D
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If you like big dps then go Manticore. If you like effectiveness then go Calamity.

Here is what I found:

Manticore is great for hatred control, great with gloom and great dps output. It works well with EA builds, strafe and any build with heavy hatred usage.

Calamity is great for killing ubers. It works well with ebolas, hungering arrows, grenades, and any build with no hatred usage.

I would go with Manticore since it's OP but I don't like the slow fasting rate. So boring...
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nice Calamity!! XD
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How was your result? Sorry I din follow up with your post ><
I was busy gettting gold to try out with other different builds.
I am looking at utility build with lots of chance for Chill, stun, Freeze, blind etc. on all the utilities I can grab on all the gears. XD

I might end up with a stun-freeze-blind-immobalize-fear lock DH build XD
check all of the gears out, they have max 5.1 chance, for now for all of the utilities.
with my attack speed of 3.02, I can easily make either one of them to proc.

Well, that is what i am trying to do.. but the gears are !"#$%&'()0 expensive. So, it might take a long time. ;)
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My usage
Calamity:
-- low lvl farming
-- MP 10 boss solo run
-- MP 10 4 ppl game, if there is no CM/WW/Nova wiz and teammates are very weak
-- maybe in pvp?

Manticore:
-- MP 10 4 ppl game, there is a CM/WW/Nova wiz or teammates are ok.

Each has its advantage. It is really a choice betwen resource regen vs. damage, which means you probably should keep both and swap in different scenarios to optimize.

But one thing we should agree on, Calamity is more fun.

Finally, take a look at my sweet Calamity


Saw your Calamity on Diablo Progress, and it's insane! Calamity indeed are more fun.

I'm kinda using your gear set as a template, but can never get there. Your gear cost way too much.
Edited by Archimonde#1447 on 12/17/2012 8:18 PM PST
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personally prefer Calamity. It provide a greater variation of style and flexibility in play style with a little sacrifice on burst damage count. U do more hits, generate hatred faster, put out hatred faster, deal more small damage in a short time which amount out to almost the same damage as burst damage. I agree while Manticore offers more burst damage, it is not really good in the sense of utility. I am using Calamity with the Gloom + Spike Traps - echoing blast and I am blasting my way through mp5 without a problem tanking the monsters at 78k dps.


Oof sorry man that's not a good idea. If you are using a trap build, you should focus on your crit chance and crit damage. IAS is good and all, but you are not benefiting enough from it to justify taking a Calamity over a Manticore. Make the switch if you like the trap build, trust me.

12/10/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Merlin
I am using a decent Calamity, paid about 200M for it.


Again, you might reconsider. I suspect that you also use a trap build for higher MPs (judging by the bonus on your chest armor) and would therefore benefit greatly from the enhanced DPS from the Manticore. My Manticore was also 200mil, so it makes for a good comparison in your case.

With traps, the IAS bonus does not compare to the crit damage and overall DPS of the Manticore. Overall, I would recommend the vast majority of those considering between the Manti and Calamity to go with the Manti. It take REALLLLY expensive Calamities to compare to even mediocre Manticores when it comes to DPS. For those of you using traps, it should be a no-brainer anyway.

Its really personal pref.I like using my calamity. I lke the higher attack speed. Some people like slower manticores but seeing the bigger number pop p damage wise.


Sure, personal preference and what not. Anyone can prefer anything, even if its not the optimal choice. You should select your wep based on your build (Like traps? Use Manti) and objective. If you want to farm low MPs for paragon lvl, take advantage of the IAS from calamity and plow through mobs faster. If you need to max out your DPS for higher MPs, it's really hard to go with anything other than a Manticore and feel smart about it.
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Thanks for the tips. I personally did some calculations:

Assuming these conditions:
1) 100% increased attack speed on weapon's maximum possible attack speed)
2) Top end gears ( maximum damage of weapons, not DPS of weapon, well the ones I know )
3) 100% criti chance

Calamity :
weapon damage: 501 - 1068 (From FamilyGuy's DH)
Attack speed : 1.78
+100% crit damage
+100% crit damage from socket

Calculation: 1068*1.78*2*2 = 7582.8

Manticore :
weapon damage : 892 - 1332 (Sephiroth, yes, yours)
Attack speed: 1.22
+100% crit damage
+100% crit damage * 2 from sockets

calculation: 892 - 1332*1.22*2*3 = 9750.24

percentage of damage loss with Manticore as the base :
(9750.24-7582.8)/9750.24*100% = 22.22961%

From the calculation above I loss around 1/5 of the damage for not choosing Manticore.
Of course, that is if you crit all the time. The fact that you cant get 100% crit chance with perfect gear leaves room for Perfect Calamity to out damage a Perfect Manticore.
You have more chance to crit with more shots in the same time frame compared to Manticore.
And personally, I prioritize utility over DPS. Of course U can always do more damage with Manticore but i am going with perma Gloom + single target stun build and I need more chance to do more crit to regen my discipline. More hits = more chance to deal crit and proc stun etc.

I personally havent really do mp7 and above before so I dont know.
I use trap to heal myself big time while tanking.
Personally, I prefer more crit and I tend to move around a lot using vault which costs me discipline while battling elites with arcane molten desecrator etc. Losing some DPS for my life is a lot better. Sure traps dish out more damage with Manticore but the utility to lock down your enemies is more valuable to me while dealing with sticky elites.
I have tried out Manticore but it just nets me with kitting build. I tried out one with 1068 DPS with 2 sockets and a total of 286% crit damage. it is great to see burst damage but the slow attack speed force me to run around constantly just to wait for my hatred and discipline to regen. I am still low on crit chance, currently around 30%+ range which is not really enough to regain my resources. Currently Calamity with faster attack is the way to go for me.

And just a personal thought on Diablo 3, maybe that is why the elemental damages do no use but just a flashy way of showing "colors" to your hits. All the people just go with the highest damage ditching utility and some simple strategy . Most people are just :
"My strategy = more DPS"

No offense, just my thought.
Edited by TenJou#1278 on 12/17/2012 9:47 PM PST
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I could write a very lengthy post on this topic but need to head off to bed. I will say the single best thing about having a Calamity is more attacks per second mean more crits which with night stalker means more disc regen. It allows you to try builds you may not otherwise have the option to.

Another thing I think in PvP it will be superior. Burizon vs Windyzon in D2 for example; the windy zones GA spam was just to much for the slow speed for a burizon. Getting caught in an attack animation while a projectile is incoming could mean GG. I like the mobility of calamity.

For example I often ditch preperation for other abilities because I can perma gloom without issue. Here is a thread I talked a little bit more about it.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7383708396
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I just like to shoot fast.

Edit: Actually, the other day I happened to be browsing Diabloprogress out of boredom and I simmed the best Manticore in the world on my character's spreadsheet for fun. It's about a 40k dps upgrade over my Calamity which I think is about right since Manticore is the stronger weapon up front.

12% of my dps from Calamity's MFD is worth roughly 50k dps however, so I will call it a wash and technically in Calamity's favour, especially once you factor in group play and that my Calamity isn't the best in the world. While the Manticore guy can use MFD as a skill, you sacrifice one skill slot for that so I consider it a pretty fair trade. (Can Calamity MFD and skill MFD stack? I actually don't know this).

Even after all this, the Manticore should really be pulling ahead as it's the much stronger weapon by itself, but there are several reasons why this isn't the case. 1) 10 crit from Archery is generally stronger than 50 crit dmg. 2) Calamity being fast and physical damage benefits from two stats much more than Manticore does, +Average Damage as well as elemental damage like the 8% on Innas.

TL;DR It's a wash.
Edited by Myon#1319 on 12/18/2012 6:54 AM PST
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12/17/2012 11:19 PMPosted by Potentiality
Burizon vs Windyzon in D2 for example


^ This. That is what I picture the whole time. I remember shooting slower w/ a Buriza thinking this is awesome. Then I got a WF and my screen was full of arrows and I had more fun.

Now on a D3 note... I agree with the people saying you'll use more hatred faster with Calamity, and I get that... but I like the fast attack. As others said, a DH is meant to be fast. I just didn't like any slower shooting bow when I tried it. But this thread is going to be a lot of "6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other". It comes down to preference.
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