Diablo® III

The Real Problem With Reflect Damage

kinda strange that RD became only an issue after MP levels have been introduced. I cant remember that it was such an issue before 1.05.

Not to mention I see the combination reflect damage and life chain as broken. Seriously. You gain a lot less LL from those mobs.

Just to sum up the discussions above, RD is a good aspect of the game and very much welcomed. However, there is an "odd" damage inconsistency to it that is just unexplained as we progress through various MP's.

For a live example, i'm now playing my Barb SSlammer build at MP6 Act 3. RD here even with the minions is tankable given my current gear. I crit consistently at 900k and even spikes to 1M damage. Yet it is still tankable even as i hit the RD mobs.

However, yesterday i was playing at MP0 with a group of people. I then hit an RD champ pack then i instantly died. That was with 30k hp, 9.5k armor, 500AR, 3% life steal, and 1,300 passive regen.

I while ago i was using my monk for a quick MP2 run, then i hit an RD champ pack again. Despite my monks meager DPS of 40-70k + (24-48% overawe) damage. I saw my HP plummet suddenly to at least 1/3 after isolating a champ from its group then killing it.

My monks stats were 33k hp, 4.8k armor, 1.5k all res, 2.7k passive regen. The champ wasn't even retaliating because of the blinding flash skill. lol.

i think there is a bug somehow and somewhere in the formula :) must have gotten mixed up during the transition to 1.0.5 i don't know :)

Anyway, just a heads up to everybody that RD is still good, but it seems to be broken at odd times :) I am now noticing that it is usually during public or private multiplayer games that it becomes more prevalent.

Could it be that RD damage is multiplied by the number of people in the game? i dont know :D

I noticed this as well. And not just with RD. It actually is true for many of the affixes. It can happen that you run in a mob and you hardly notice that it is a mob. 5 min. later you get almost anhiliated by another mob. And no, I am not talking about those occultists with their shielding (less LL from them) or the Succubus which reduce your restiances. I know that those can hurt more. I mean this in general. Sometimes you play your MP level, and you dont have ANY issues, trough the whole level. And then ... the next game on the same difficuilty feels like its 1 or even 2 MPs higher ...

If you ask me, something IS definitely not working correctly here. Just a guess. But considering how many errors Bliz had to correct already regarding damage and affixes and such it would not surprise me.
Edited by CrniVuk#2227 on 11/8/2012 4:03 PM PST
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People lack skills. That is the problem with RD.

I never kill myself because I have the skills and I look good using them.

My enchantress regularly says that she is most impressed [with me]. I know she is. I just know it.


Unfortunately it is hard to verify what you say seeing as you do not have your D3 profile available for us to see. So while you may very well be telling the truth I have my doubts that you even do enough dps to notice the RD affix at all.
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kinda strange that RD became only an issue after MP levels have been introduced. I cant remember that it was such an issue before 1.05.

Not to mention I see the combination reflect damage and life chain as broken. Seriously. You gain a lot less LL from those mobs.

Just to sum up the discussions above, RD is a good aspect of the game and very much welcomed. However, there is an "odd" damage inconsistency to it that is just unexplained as we progress through various MP's.

For a live example, i'm now playing my Barb SSlammer build at MP6 Act 3. RD here even with the minions is tankable given my current gear. I crit consistently at 900k and even spikes to 1M damage. Yet it is still tankable even as i hit the RD mobs.

However, yesterday i was playing at MP0 with a group of people. I then hit an RD champ pack then i instantly died. That was with 30k hp, 9.5k armor, 500AR, 3% life steal, and 1,300 passive regen.

I while ago i was using my monk for a quick MP2 run, then i hit an RD champ pack again. Despite my monks meager DPS of 40-70k + (24-48% overawe) damage. I saw my HP plummet suddenly to at least 1/3 after isolating a champ from its group then killing it.

My monks stats were 33k hp, 4.8k armor, 1.5k all res, 2.7k passive regen. The champ wasn't even retaliating because of the blinding flash skill. lol.

i think there is a bug somehow and somewhere in the formula :) must have gotten mixed up during the transition to 1.0.5 i don't know :)

Anyway, just a heads up to everybody that RD is still good, but it seems to be broken at odd times :) I am now noticing that it is usually during public or private multiplayer games that it becomes more prevalent.

Could it be that RD damage is multiplied by the number of people in the game? i dont know :D

I noticed this as well. And not just with RD. It actually is true for many of the affixes. It can happen that you run in a mob and you hardly notice that it is a mob. 5 min. later you get almost anhiliated by another mob. And no, I am not talking about those occultists with their shielding (less LL from them) or the Succubus which reduce your restiances. I know that those can hurt more. I mean this in general. Sometimes you play your MP level, and you dont have ANY issues, trough the whole level. And then ... the next game on the same difficuilty feels like its 1 or even 2 MPs higher ...

If you ask me, something IS definitely not working correctly here. Just a guess. But considering how many errors Bliz had to correct already regarding damage and affixes and such it would not surprise me.


I notice this all the time. I will play a MP4 game to do a key run then drop down to MP1 for a fast farming run and get beat up 10 times worse in the MP1 run then i did at MP4. Of course there will have been different affix combos in each game but it seem strange to me that a game made 3 mp lvls lower will seem harder to play than the higher MP lvl one.

As for minion damage i agree with what one poster said. This seems to be happening with most affixes if not all. Mortars from minions doing more damage than the Yellow Boss or Blue packs with Mortar affix. For me I have found the Electric affix to be just brutal compared to some of the other affixes and No i dont have less in Lightening resists than I do the others.

Seems to me there is something very bugged right now in regards to elemental and minion damage. Or maybe it is our resists not working like they should I dunno.
Edited by Stoneslammer#1524 on 11/8/2012 4:52 PM PST
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make reflect damage have a visual so I can stop dps. problem solved.
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RD seems become very hard these days. I have the same feeling as OP
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11/08/2012 04:54 PMPosted by rogue4ever
make reflect damage have a visual so I can stop dps. problem solved.

I don't know why blizz didn't do that. It should be implemented in 1.06
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At MP4 I did not have to die before the hotfix but now I have to die several times to reflect damage, please fix it.
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There is nothing wrong with the affix, you noobs. RD mobs obviously just have to be talked down. You have to ask them politely to drop what they're carrying, and leave the area. Works like a charm. You noobs who think you can just build a powerful character, and run around killing things, having what you claim to be 'fun', are just that; noobs who need to l2p.

noobs.
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My DH doesn't have a problem with RD, none at all. The real problem with RD is players who refuse to buy gear that has defensive properties.
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@Crimsyn

There is nothing wrong with the affix, you noobs. RD mobs obviously just have to be talked down. You have to ask them politely to drop what they're carrying, and leave the area. Works like a charm. You noobs who think you can just build a powerful character, and run around killing things, having what you claim to be 'fun', are just that; noobs who need to l2p.

noobs.


Word of advice before calling people noobs.

My profile. ZRaiyne#6337.

EHP Unbuffed: 1,113,469
world: 5581 (monk: 1108)
Americas: 2256 (monk: 338)

Resistance: 1,102 Unbuffed (1,944 Buffed)
world: 66 (monk: 9)
Americas: 28 (monk: 7)

Armor: 5,292 Unbuffed (9,827 Buffed)
world: 50K+ (monk: 2177)
Americas: 28027 (monk: 883)

Life per Second: 2,663 Unbuffed (3,113 Buffed)
world: 664 (monk: 134)
Americas: 332 (monk: 66)


Still you dare to call us noobs. Show us your profile then.

I challenge you to an RD tanking contest. I will personally put you to shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avbvr6QYUIc
This was 2 months ago. 500 AR weaker. Not even close to what monstrosities i can do now.
Edited by ZRaiyne#6337 on 11/9/2012 4:17 AM PST
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11/09/2012 04:12 AMPosted by justhackitup
I have noticed that some monsters reflect a higher damage back, I'm wondering if their Base HP or something has to do with it. Its definitely not a universal mod. My barb is running 90k and some stuff I can just WW all day and other stuff I have to run and heal amid the battle. Or as the OP suggest, could be a bug. O.o


I have noticed that it is usually the white minion mobs that reflect higher. This is regardless of the MP levels since i honestly got killed at MP 0 in an instant after encountering RD hording white mobs with my barb. After that i ran a couple of test runs at MP6 just to make sure, but none of them were reflecting like the one i experienced earlier. I'll get a video of it once i have the time to retest everything.

I think it is a bug in the calculations since it doesn't seem to affect the yellow or blue elites that much. :)
Edited by ZRaiyne#6337 on 11/9/2012 4:39 AM PST
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@Crimsyn

There is nothing wrong with the affix, you noobs. RD mobs obviously just have to be talked down. You have to ask them politely to drop what they're carrying, and leave the area. Works like a charm. You noobs who think you can just build a powerful character, and run around killing things, having what you claim to be 'fun', are just that; noobs who need to l2p.

noobs.


Word of advice before calling people noobs.

My profile. ZRaiyne#6337.

EHP Unbuffed: 1,113,469
world: 5581 (monk: 1108)
Americas: 2256 (monk: 338)

Resistance: 1,102 Unbuffed (1,944 Buffed)
world: 66 (monk: 9)
Americas: 28 (monk: 7)

Armor: 5,292 Unbuffed (9,827 Buffed)
world: 50K+ (monk: 2177)
Americas: 28027 (monk: 883)

Life per Second: 2,663 Unbuffed (3,113 Buffed)
world: 664 (monk: 134)
Americas: 332 (monk: 66)


Still you dare to call us noobs. Show us your profile then.

I challenge you to an RD tanking contest. I will personally put you to shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avbvr6QYUIc
This was 2 months ago. 500 AR weaker. Not even close to what monstrosities i can do now.


Whoosh.
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I have noticed that some monsters reflect a higher damage back, I'm wondering if their Base HP or something has to do with it. Its definitely not a universal mod. My barb is running 90k and some stuff I can just WW all day and other stuff I have to run and heal amid the battle. Or as the OP suggest, could be a bug. O.o


I have tested this MANY times with many enemies. The % damage reflected has always been the same amount no matter what type of enemy or what type of elite. However, the damage the elites take is a different story.

Still you dare to call us noobs. Show us your profile then.

I challenge you to an RD tanking contest. I will personally put you to shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avbvr6QYUIc
This was 2 months ago. 500 AR weaker. Not even close to what monstrosities i can do now.


um... i'm not agreeing with him but what do your stats have to do with being a noob or not?
Edited by Brathearon#1214 on 11/9/2012 8:56 AM PST
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I've had this happen.

The other problem is with health link.

If say I land a strike for 120k on a health linked blue, what happens is that the damage is split into three parts and shared over all three enemies. So each takes 40k damage.

The reflected portion though seems to be based on the 120k damage from the strike, and then reflected back by all three enemies equally, so tripling the reflected damage from what it should be.

Seems to be what I'm observing because they definitely throw a lot more damage back via reflection than other mobs.
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I have noticed the same with my Monk , some RD elites just melt at mp6/7, and some RD packs (usually the ones with minions) just annihilate me at all MP levels including mp0.

The ones that hurt me bad force me to pop serenity and swap in a 2.9LS and 900 loh weapon for my EF that drops my dps output by about 30k.

Even with the RD swap weapon I use, with a total 5.8LS, 900LOH, less dps, I still hurt myself bad and require a lot of kiting to finish off the pack.

I have 668 res all, 4600 armor, 48k life, and resolve (20% dmg reduction) for running mp6/7.
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I've had this happen.

The other problem is with health link.

If say I land a strike for 120k on a health linked blue, what happens is that the damage is split into three parts and shared over all three enemies. So each takes 40k damage.

The reflected portion though seems to be based on the 120k damage from the strike, and then reflected back by all three enemies equally, so tripling the reflected damage from what it should be.

Seems to be what I'm observing because they definitely throw a lot more damage back via reflection than other mobs.


I havent tested the reflect damage health link, however i believe that your % lifesteal will only be based off of the 40k attack.
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I've had this happen.

The other problem is with health link.

If say I land a strike for 120k on a health linked blue, what happens is that the damage is split into three parts and shared over all three enemies. So each takes 40k damage.

The reflected portion though seems to be based on the 120k damage from the strike, and then reflected back by all three enemies equally, so tripling the reflected damage from what it should be.

Seems to be what I'm observing because they definitely throw a lot more damage back via reflection than other mobs.


I havent tested the reflect damage health link, however i believe that your % lifesteal will only be based off of the 40k attack.


K i just tested health link+reflect damage, the damage you deal is only reflected once at the ratio of your cut damage

That is, if your attack is supposed to deal 120k damage on a health link enemy for 3 enemies, you will deal 40k damage. The % damage reflect will be based on 40k damage. So in a sense, having health link will make reflect damage easier.
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I responded to your original post in the Bug Report forums and was disappointed to see so little response. Responding here to give the post a bump and to reiterate that I lose an insane amount of health when doing damage to RD minions (even when singled out one by one), but I'm more or less HP neutral or slightly positive when doing damage to yellow or blue elites with 2.5% life steal, just over 5k armor, and ~900 AR.
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op blaming a bug for his reflect dmg fail
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