Diablo® III

The Real Problem With Reflect Damage

This is certainly a bug... Nothing to do with RD affix.

The bug is that RD minions (ONLY minions, not yellow or blue mobs) reflect way more damage than supposed to.

Period.
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What makes you say that though? They always reflect the same amount as yellow or blue elites. That is, the damage reflected to damage dealt ratio is the same across all elites.
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Heh, RD is fine. The only ones who should !@#$% are wizards because their LoH ratios have all been massacred by nerfs.

They sometimes kill me on MP3+ when I don't pay attention and use exploding palm. That will insta-gib you like nothing else.
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I'm actually ready to get behind this possibility. 3-4 champs with reflect damage don't phase me. 1 Unique Elite and 2-3 minions just rip me apart. I never really noticed before I read this thread and started paying attention.

I am really noticing what seems to be a scaling issue with RD minions.. ..
Edited by BurningRope#1322 on 11/19/2012 2:54 AM PST
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Well, usually I'm very sceptical about these things but now that you say it: that is also something i noticed. Or noticed....... more like: "Wait, why do I die very quickly by reflect damage group A and can I kill, without any problem, reflect damage group B?".

I tried this, it works out, there is something strange going on here.
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totally agree with the OP, i can ground stomp (so i don't take any incoming damage) and single cleave myself to death with a RD minion group, yet blue packs are no problem at all
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Heh, RD is fine. The only ones who should !@#$% are wizards because their LoH ratios have all been massacred by nerfs.

They sometimes kill me on MP3+ when I don't pay attention and use exploding palm. That will insta-gib you like nothing else.


Not to sound snippy, please don't take it that way....but you aren't doing enough DPS to really feel it. At mp5+ and 60k DPS+ (you really start to feel it at 80k+) RD becomes an issue.

It's something I've learned to gear for and have little serious issue with.....except when fighting white minions of Unique Elites.

Some sort of shenanigans going on here.
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Dear OP, I'm a monk too but I find RD manageable. Just compare your build and mine. You have about 37k more dps but you have 12k less life than mine. You need to balance your gear for survivability. Your vitality is too low. You would be better off with some LOH in your gear but you have to increase your attack speed.
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FD is bugged. There are times I just face roll right through RD just any other mob. Then, from time to time, I come across an elite pack that totally owns me. I mean like 40K health one shot ownage.

When I come across those packs, I skip them. Last night, I came across a bugged pack. Skipped it, and went to the next pack. The next pack also had RD, fought it and just face rolled right through the second pack.

I always play on MP7. Not sure if that matters.
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The real problem is that nearly every pack you face has RD. If it wouldnt be so often mabye then ppls wouldnt be so pissed about it but right now seriously nearly every pack I come across has this stupid affix.
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minions definately bugged.
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11/19/2012 06:05 AMPosted by Omegaxmen
Dear OP, I'm a monk too but I find RD manageable. Just compare your build and mine. You have about 37k more dps but you have 12k less life than mine. You need to balance your gear for survivability. Your vitality is too low. You would be better off with some LOH in your gear but you have to increase your attack speed.


haha, even if I had more HP I would still get stomped in 3-5 hits. I have to 2 gear switches when I see minons and I'm fine handiling them. I just switch to Litany of the Undaunted that gives me 100 more resist than I have and a weapon that has 6% LS and 1700 LOH;It's stupid that I have to do that though. 5.9% LS is enough for me to handle anything but Reflect Damage Minons.

Also I'm very survivable, about 590 All Resist with my Hellfire and 700 All Resist with Litany of the Undaunted, which is enough if you play smart. I have 3 skills that help keep me allive when I'm in trouble. Blinding Flash, Serenity, and 7 Sided Strike. Beacon of Ytar shortens my cooldowns by 20%,so as long as I alternate my skills and run away at the right times I'm fine, unless I have a really bad combination of affixes on Elites. I can be more survivable so I can solo Ubers higher than MP5, but that's gonna take some more gold. I definitely need to get a pair of Vile Ward shoulders later. I think soloing Ubers on MP5 is pretty survivable, at least IMO.

Anyways, it'd just be nice if I didn't have to gear swap to handle measly Minions with Reflect Damage and if we have to end up doing that anyways, they should give us a gear swap button.
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As a DH, dump that crappy Gloom, use Blood Moon, as long as I'm inflicting damage I'm at full health, right in the middle of RD mobs. Really. Gloom is for running! Blood moon is for standing your ground and fighting. IMO.

Look at my build, good to MP 4 as is. 5 is harder solo, but with group no trouble.
Edited by BadtotheBone#1633 on 11/19/2012 3:27 PM PST
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11/19/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Hien
minions definately bugged.


I dont really think so. I think they just take more damage, which means more damage reflected. Life on hit does not scale with damage done, so using the OP's method of checking is not effective.

What you should do instead is calculate the ratio of damage done to damage taken and see that it is the same across all elites within the same MP level.
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I just tested with a non bleed weapon and I believe you have to be above a certain amount of dps for the bug to affect you since you should get more damage reflected back. Minons off of 1 single shot, will reflect 2 seperate numbers back while the leaders reflect 1 number back, it is bug. They are reflecting 2 hits back instead of one. It's hard to see the numbers exactly when you have both the 1 green number popping up and 2 red numbers popping up. With 6% lifesteal and around 1700 LOH with 701 resist, I was able to cancel out the damage. I think if you have less than 600-650 resist and 6% or less LS, and around 110k+ DPS and lower than 5000 Armor you will still take massive damage from minions. The DPS number could be a little lower, but low end DPS won't do enough damage for the 2 separate attacks reflected back to overpower your LOH or LS.

Try to get your stats higher and try that out Brathearon. I find it weird that they reflect 2 seperate numbers back. I can tell they are 2 seperate numbers because they are not parallel to eachother. When I use Skorn I can't tell because it does Bleed Damage and I have a fountain of numbers coming out of my character.
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Ran into another group and same result. 2 attacks reflected back from Minions while the Yellow Leader on reflected 1 attack back. That would explain why they reflect more damage back. I don't know what the exact conditions for the bug are, but I'm getting it consistentlly.

Just ran into a Blue Group and each one of those RD Elites only reflected 1 attack back.

I'm pretty sure other people are getting it, but they just don't realize what's happening.
Edited by TruongSifu#1826 on 11/19/2012 8:50 PM PST
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11/12/2012 06:26 PMPosted by shwick
op blaming a bug for his reflect dmg fail


16254 DPS. Fail.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shwick-1500/hero/2895570

Of course you're not gonna get enough damage reflected back at you when you attack elites since you're tickling them.
Edited by TruongSifu#1826 on 11/19/2012 8:46 PM PST
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I just tested with a non bleed weapon and I believe you have to be above a certain amount of dps for the bug to affect you since you should get more damage reflected back. Minons off of 1 single shot, will reflect 2 seperate numbers back while the leaders reflect 1 number back, it is bug. They are reflecting 2 hits back instead of one. It's hard to see the numbers exactly when you have both the 1 green number popping up and 2 red numbers popping up. With 6% lifesteal and around 1700 LOH with 701 resist, I was able to cancel out the damage. I think if you have less than 600-650 resist and 6% or less LS, and around 110k+ DPS and lower than 5000 Armor you will still take massive damage from minions. The DPS number could be a little lower, but low end DPS won't do enough damage for the 2 separate attacks reflected back to overpower your LOH or LS.

Try to get your stats higher and try that out Brathearon. I find it weird that they reflect 2 seperate numbers back. I can tell they are 2 seperate numbers because they are not parallel to eachother. When I use Skorn I can't tell because it does Bleed Damage and I have a fountain of numbers coming out of my character.


Try it without lifesteal so you can more accurately read the numbers. I have never seen 2 attacks being reflected back, even with crits well over 500k (nearing 1 mill).
Edited by Brathearon#1214 on 11/20/2012 2:59 AM PST
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Try it without lifesteal so you can more accurately read the numbers. I have never seen 2 attacks being reflected back, even with crits well over 500k (nearing 1 mill).


I did and got 2 attacks reflected back by RD Minions. I even tried it with a different weapon that put me down to 29k DPS and had 2 attacks reflected back by RD Minions. They also reflected near the same values, give or take very a small range because not every strike can be the exact same, as the Leader of the pack for 1 attack, but since 2 are reflected back the total damage is more.
Edited by TruongSifu#1826 on 11/20/2012 10:11 AM PST
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I have a theory about why RD minions reflect so much more than blues: The champion has the ability to cast spells at the rate of 3 blues, all at once. This is why they are able to spawn triple walls and like 12 frozen bombs/sentries at once. On paper they are 3x more powerful than a blue in terms of their affix output. I believe that this is being applied to RD as well, and distributed through their minions.

Basically what I am saying is that a champion reflects 3x the amount of damage as a blue, but it is distributed among his minions when they also have the RD affix. Again, just a theory.

Edit: Someone could test this by fighting a RD champion with RD minions, and a RD champion without RD minions. The champion with RD minions should reflect as much damage as a blue, but his minions will reflect much more. The champion without RD should reflect much more damage since all the RD will come from him. This would confirm my theory.
Edited by MikeHoncho#1169 on 11/20/2012 11:33 AM PST
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