Diablo® III

A true effective DPS test(CM Wiz vs WD)

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Results are out

http://www.twitch.tv/hiddenfootprints/b/340446557 WD ghom kill vids

So here are the control groups and test conditions.:

1. ghom in MP 10 (138.5mil health)

2. CM/WW wiz vs Bear Doc

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sennin-1346/hero/4402710
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/DanSkyWalker-1988/hero/27831018

Apparently Sennin needs to gimp himself a bit to match my DPS, but it can be easily done I think.

Builds:
(WZ)
Frost nova/bone chill
Diamond skin/diamond shards
storm armor
teleport
WW/explosive blast

Astral presence/critical mass/cold blooded

(WD)147K DPS with scoundrel
WoS
SW/Jaunt
Garg/bruiser
Zombie dogs

Zombie bears/widow maker
Vision Quest/Spiritual vessel/Blood ritual.

Both builds are practical in high MP farming and none are tweaked to optimize single target boss kill.
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/15/2012 9:11 PM PST
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Reserved for edits and results.
WD (147K DPS):

1. 220 sec
2. 178 sec
3. 185 sec
4. 202 sec

average result:
705K effective DPS against inferno MP10 ghom=479% paper DPS

Wiz (157K DPS) shocknadoshards the most aggressive variation of the build
1. 116 sec
since it hurts people's fingers so I am not going to make him do it over and over again.

1.18M effective DPS against inferno MP10 ghom=750% paper DPS
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/15/2012 8:34 PM PST
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Also there are two variations of the Wiz build which includes diamonds shards and/or storm armor. Those are going to be tested too.
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the way you're testing seems to have a lot to do with whatever your play style might be.

it might be more effective to just record the fight a few times, each time spamming a different skill, and make a note of how much damage you do over a certain period of time with each. if you test for different skill combinations that leaves an awful lot of variation for how the person plays.

whereas, if you tested each skill individually, you could say "i was doing 230dps over 15 seconds when i used this skill, which is X% of my on-paper dps". that information can be taken, scaled, and used by anyone, no matter how they play.

i'd already done this with several skills, and its extremely reliable for accurate information.
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ps- that's exactly how i determined blazing spiders did over 300% of my paper dps, which was verified by the person that used the dps meter to find the same thing.
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it might be more effective to just record the fight a few times, each time spamming a different skill, and make a note of how much damage you do over a certain period of time with each. if you test for different skill combinations that leaves an awful lot of variation for how the person plays.

whereas, if you tested each skill individually, you could say "i was doing 230dps over 15 seconds when i used this skill, which is X% of my on-paper dps". that information can be taken, scaled, and used by anyone, no matter how they play.


Bears can't be spammed alone for extended period of time. This is a test of how a rotation plays out in real game play. In this particular test it is ZB/WM/VQ/BR synergy.<-this already has been tested yesterday and it does roughly 425% paper DPS.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004047910

The individual skill tests are very accurate, and I believe I came across your results and they are interesting.

The purpsose of these tests are that people tend to claim some build/class to be OP without having solid data/proof and all the futile arguments are made on speculation.
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/15/2012 11:25 AM PST
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fair enough. either way i'm curious to see how each build does. maybe i'll expand on my own some time this weekend.
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I would think the WD would out DPS a CM wiz easily but the main lure of the CM wiz is perma frozen mobs.

Also, for the WD, why wouldn't you use SB with manitou instead of WoS if you're bear spamming?
Edited by phoking#1554 on 11/15/2012 11:40 AM PST
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11/15/2012 11:38 AMPosted by phoking
Also, for the WD, why wouldn't you use SB with manitou instead of WoS if you're bear spamming?


This is the build I personally use for high MP farming (rain dance instead of zombie dogs though)
So the build wasn't tweaked in anyway to optimize the test. I got rid of rain dance because it complicates the test.

So although WoS is in the armory, I don't even use it in the fight against ghom.
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/15/2012 11:44 AM PST
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Just curious, but why MP2? If you really want to run benchmarks, shouldn't you be doing it at MP10? Or is the goal to remove survivability in the equation? IMO, a guy can dish out 5 million burst DPS but it's pretty worthless unless you can actually sustain it throughout AND survive the fight
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11/15/2012 05:26 PMPosted by Valcrist
Just curious, but why MP2? If you really want to run benchmarks, shouldn't you be doing it at MP10? Or is the goal to remove survivability in the equation? IMO, a guy can dish out 5 million burst DPS but it's pretty worthless unless you can actually sustain it throughout AND survive the fight


2 reasones:

1. I started this silly personal project yesterday and my baby barbarian can't handle high MP ghom reliably.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7004047910

2. Since there are many kills need to be recorded so I picked a MP that is not that grindy.

But you do make a solid point, and I will try how high a MP that I can solo ghom reliably and extend the test. :)

Since I usually can reliably farm MP10 ubers with our team, so it shouldn't be that bad.
Edited by DanSkyWalker#1988 on 11/15/2012 5:34 PM PST
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Tried MP10 ghom for a little bit, it seems manageable..

So game on, going to stream

www.twitch.tv/hiddenfootprints
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got him second try. It was fun :)
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Results are out in post #2
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not bad considering that extra 13k dps does give sennin a little more oomph
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Excellent tests.

I am surprised at how low the Barb was and how much trouble you were having with Ghom given the apparent OP-ness of Barbs at the moment.
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No surprise here.

Its what I have been saying for a while.
Bears Dps on paper looks OP, and if you can kill a mob before your mana runs out, it likely is OP.

However if you compare it in a longer fight to other classes we simply dont have the sustain power.

He has approximately 7% more paper DPS.
He killed the mob approximately 70% faster than you.

ANd the best part is you are using VQ/BR and Widowmakers, and you still had to slow down and swap to other skills in the fight.
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I would think the WD would out DPS a CM wiz easily but the main lure of the CM wiz is perma frozen mobs.

Also, for the WD, why wouldn't you use SB with manitou instead of WoS if you're bear spamming?


A WD will outdps a traditional CM/WW wizard who only uses WW and EB for DPS. When you throw in Diamond Shards run in place of Crystal Shell on Diamond Skin and Storm Armor Shocking Aspect rune in place of Energy Armor Prismatic Shell you have just drastically increased your damage. On top of this you would throw in Bone Chill in place of Cold Snap on Nova for an extra 15% damage to frozen targets which is all the time.

There is a newer build that adds meteor to the already large DPS rotation which would make this number substantially larger. I prefer having TP for movement to make up for the static nature of CM/WW though so I do not run it. That aside Dan is still pretty OP. We ran MP10 Ghom with the three of us last night and did 4million combined EDPS.
Edited by Sennin#1346 on 11/16/2012 7:10 AM PST
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If a Wiz can perma freeze a mob, then they can attack with 100% uptime.

If you watch the WD vid, he does have high DPS uptime, but still is forced to move / kite a lot.

Also the WD is using 3 mana replenishment skills, one of which is WM, meaning he isnt 100% bear spamming.

Watching videos of wiz's that can perma freeze things make me want to cry. I watched a video last night of some Wiz with basically the same Damage as me do a MP10 uber run (ghom and sword guy) and simply freeze them for the whole fight. Meanwhile, I cant even do MP7 solo because i end up hitting the enrage.

The fact that you can perma stun a mob to remove all of its abilities really make the fight silly.
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If a Wiz can perma freeze a mob, then they can attack with 100% uptime.

If you watch the WD vid, he does have high DPS uptime, but still is forced to move / kite a lot.

Also the WD is using 3 mana replenishment skills, one of which is WM, meaning he isnt 100% bear spamming.

Watching videos of wiz's that can perma freeze things make me want to cry. I watched a video last night of some Wiz with basically the same Damage as me do a MP10 uber run (ghom and sword guy) and simply freeze them for the whole fight. Meanwhile, I cant even do MP7 solo because i end up hitting the enrage.

The fact that you can perma stun a mob to remove all of its abilities really make the fight silly.


Unfortunately there are disparities like this. Playing any other spec as a wizard and watching a WD with Dan's DPS let alone mine or a Barb who's DPS skill buffs are MUCH more effective makes us cry because our skills suck except for CM/WW and are just not viable unless you massively outgear content.
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