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***PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING***
Hello, my fellow demon hunters! So far, I would have to call this thread a pretty big success! Tons of great responses from you guys.
If anyone at all needs advice on where to go with their build, I will do my best to help. I can't claim mastery of the DH by any stretch, so take my advice, think about it, research it, simulate it, ask more people, whatever! I'll try to point you in the right direction and clear up any confusion or sources of concern. Please note that I'm currently in university, so my time isn't unlimited. I won't be sitting on the forum constantly refreshing the page, but I do check periodically when I can. So if you don't see a response right away, check back later! I will get around to it, I promise. What I'd really like is for you guys to give this post a read, give it some thought and come back to me with more specific questions. I feel like the descriptions I've given should be able to direct a bunch of you in the right direction. I definitely don't mind giving general advice, but I do prefer more specific questions after you've put some thought to it.
As a test to make sure I'd be able to give good advice for new DHs or lower budget DHs, I tried to make the best build I could for under 100m in a build simulator using real items at their buyout prices. My sample build cost me about 75m, including gems (and that was adding a few million here and there if I felt any prices might be a bit higher). As of December 3, 2012, every piece on here was 5m or less. The result? My build had 140k unbuffed DPS (175k with archery, steady aim and scoundrel), 440k eHP, 55k life, 46% CC, 400% CD and 1.77 attacks per second. While I recognize that 75m might not be available to everybody, I feel that it is a very reasonable cost for such a build and fairly indicative of what I can come up with under a budget that many people can afford.
Having said all of this, please post your questions or requests for an evaluation. I'll happily take a look and see what I can suggest. Before you ask me though, take a look below. I've posted a link to the build I made. Take a look at that build and read the logic behind what I did and why it works. It might help you see places where you could improve, or even give you a template to follow for your own build! There have been two people who I've spoken to who have followed this build and both said they love it.
As another self-evaluation tool, I'm going to walk you through exactly what I do when I look at your build. I assure you, there is no magic to it!
I always start every build by putting your battletag into diabloprogress.com. This website lays out everything relating to your build. This includes your unbuffed DPS, eHP, resists, life, AS, CD, CC - everything important!
Once I have your profile loaded, I look at your eHP and DPS first. I always hope to see eHP around 250k. For those who don't know, eHP stands for effective hit points. It basically is the combined mitigating ability of your character. This includes HP, armour, resists, dodge chance, etc., all combined to show how much actual damage an enemy needs to put out to kill you.
If I feel your eHP is too low, I will generally check your life and resists. I want to see your life at least 35k. If your eHP is suffering, I'll be looking to see at least 300-400 AR. Some of you may note that my resists are actually less than 300, yet I have over 400k eHP. The reason this works is because I have rather high armour and dodge chance. This leads me to my next comment - armour. If your eHP is too low and your armour is like 2k, that is a problem. A good number for armour is 3k+.
Once eHP has been sorted, look at your CC, CD and AS. If you're a 2H crossbow user, I'm hoping to see somewhere around 300% CD, 40-45% CC, and around 1.7 attacks per second (all unbuffed). If you're a bow user, your CD will be lower since you can't have a 2 soc bow and archery won't give you the CD boost, but your AS will be higher.
If you meet all of the CD/CC/AS specifications and your DPS is still lower than I think it should be, it basically points to one thing: DEX! For a demon hunter, your dex is the fundamental damage source. That is the only thing (apart from a low damage bow, which I also check) that could be holding you back.
If you meet all of the above, then I basically will just look for the weakest link in your gear and suggest an upgrade that will maintain your eHP while increasing your DPS.
If you've managed to read this far, my god you are a trooper! Here is the build I've been referencing. If you have any questions, concerns or suggestions for it, please post here! I'd love to hear it.
To cater to those with much smaller budgets, I've put together a quick little build. The entire build (gems included) cost me under 800k. It's not perfect, but it's a pretty solid build for its price. If I were to do it again, I would sacrifice some CD and CC for some AS and drop some vit to increase dex. Some highlights of the build:
-57k unbuffed DPS (74k buffed)
-300k unbuffed eHP (475k with dodge)
-1.38 attacks per second
Full build and details: http://d3up.com/b/196537#gear
Note: The displayed eHP value doesn't include dodge (which is stupid). On the right hand side, click on the effective hit points button to see it's actual number. Diabloprogress uses the dodge eHP number, just so you guys know. I believe that is the proper measure since dodge is always there.
Also, if anyone is curious to see my actual gear build in a calculator, I'll post the link too.
Edited by Genesis#1518 on 12/19/2012 10:43 AM PST
I think is a good topic that OP is giving out help to DH needing advice.
I would like to upgrade my DH as well but I am stubborn and in a dilemma to let go the armor, vit and ar for more damage. Do you think you can help out in terms of maintaining 5.5k armor unbuff, 70k life, 400 AR and hitting 100k unbuff damage for 75m?
Edit: I can do with better gems to up the dex further, that I know.
Edited by Rekka#6691 on 10/29/2012 11:23 PM PDT
Was going to start a new topic so your advice timing was perfect.
Basically i would like to use my DH as more of a slow down AOE dps build, But also have a bit of fire power to be able to take on elites/bosses one on one if need be.
Im also wondering do slow skills stack at all?? Like using my spider to slow enemies while also using the Entangling shot to slow them some more, I also play often with my friend who is a wizard that uses Blizzard to slow enemies.
You can check my current build and offer any advice you think would help me out, I'm not pumping out heaps of DPS at the moment but enough to get me through most things on mp4/5 So any advice on what gear i should work on upgrading next would be sweet.
i could use some help.
In regards to my build I want to steer away from nat set (aesthetic purposes) and if possibly, the two piece inna set people use, as I just want to be a little different and again, aesthetic purposes.
I do know my quiver sucks hard right now. currently hoping to DML w/ >250dex, >18%aps, and 10cc.
In addition to my wish list include ice climbers, witching hour, an amulet like yours, your Litany of Undaunted looks nice too, oh and a >1300dps wf (want to stick with a bow)
oh and a hellfire ring would be nice (no time to work on that)
oh and if possible a near perfect cloak with 10discp, 3 sockets, and a S*** load of dex and dex ( at least >150 each), close to impossible I know.
Having some extra discp really is helpful as well.
here's my profile
(for some reason the option to change tags do not show up. )
want to at least reach 150dps unbuffed, with a goal of near 200dps, strong survivability would be nice as well. if this is possible, that would be awesome.
currently sitting on 28m. help me out. thanks again
I myself would like to see what i should get next im getting nats helm thats if i win a bid but other then that if you check my guy out its pretty good so with that max 20 discipline does it help out a lot increase dmg or something for the 4 nat set? I know i need to improve life 28k right now but i rarely die as if im timing my skills right and specially if im rolling with more then a couple people. I have 480% crit dmg 54.5 crit chance 1.71 as and 400+ ar on my guy now just wondering how i can get it up to like 200k dps with getting more resist about to 600 and 35-40k life? I think i dont die much because i do have a lot of loh/lak/LR so that helps but im trying to push for a little better build even though im liking this one a lot.
It sounds like a good idea :)
Btw, with build, do you mean gears or with the skill set as well?
Well, I just want to discuss a build that might be my next project.
And would like to have some advices/critics from you.
I have never been a fan of increased attack speed, as you can see in my current setup. I focus only on cc (Crit Chance) and cd (Crit Damage).
Since I had injured my right wrist in the past, I topped a quite decent amout of life regen and put the hatred spender (EA - BL) on left klick and make space bar as hold position. And just hold left click and occasionaly hold space bar to launch the EA - BL.
The result, it's pretty convenience way to reduce the amount of stress on my right wrist.
I didn't need to stutter step at all and only gloom against certain affix.
But this morning I have this idea of build that focus on ias and sentry since I start wearing out using the current setup.
So the next build I'm after is max ias 0cc, 0cd sentry related build, which is almost 180 degrees from what I have done. That's why I need others advices / input.
The aim is to farm at higher mp effectively, let's say 6-8.
The rough build is like this:-
Sentry - I havent tested it, but afaik sentry does the same APS as us right?
Caltrop - Jagged
Companion - They too get affected by the ias IIRC and cannot crit as well
still thinking about the rest
Bow - to work with archery, just need a high raw, dex roll
Quiver - atleast 15%ias, high dex roll, bonus
Helm - Mempho, ias, dex roll is nice to have
Armor - Tal Rasha, ias, dex roll is nice to have, or just a decent rare with high dex/vit roll
Glove - Tasker and Theo, I would always love to have one of this since the history behind it is so awesome, ias, dex, socket
Belt - Any high dex/vit roll, no, I'm not considering witching hour! If I found the raw is high, might consider inna belt to get extra dex and bonus 6% holy.
Wrist - Lacuni ias and dex roll, yes we do not need cc roll in this one ;)
Pants - Inna, although the cc is not used, the ias and dex already served its purpose
Boots - since we already have 24% ms, just throw any decent rares with high dex vit roll
Jewelries - max ias, dex, and avg dmg
Any advices? Critics?
PS: Given that the gear only needs ias and dex as main requirement, it's expected to be on low end price.
Although I didn't mention RA at all, I didnt mean to omit the necessity of having RA in this build!
I really cant wait to try this later after putting the gear into the spreadsheet!
I have this idea of build that focus on ias and sentry since I start wearing out using the current setup.
Yes, Sentries are effected by increased attack speed. I can comment on this, as I have a similar build I have come up with that seems to be extremely effective. As you've said the main concept is to stack ias and dex, however you also want around 1k loh and a high base attack speed weapon (Dawn). You want to shoot for 2.5 attacks per second or higher. With this, regen is not needed at all. A small disclaimer is that I play hardcore, so you can probably get rid of a few of the defensive aspects for softcore if needed.
Primary attack: stun grenades
Secondary attack: spike trap (echoing blast)
Sentry - guardian shield
Companion - boar (for hc)
Smoke Screen - movespeed or duration rune
Preparation - 60% heal rune (again for hc, could swap this out for softcore, probaly)
Passive 1 - custom engineering
Passive 2 - numbing traps
Passive 3 - Perfectionist (for hc, but honestly its an amazing defensive ability all around)
The basic premise is that with high attack speed your stun grenades will stun packs for a large portion of the fight, sometimes outright stunlocking them the whole time if their hitbox is big enough or the positioning allows you to hit them with all 3 grenades. Throw down 3 sentries asap as they do ridiculous damage, and spam spike trap on the stunned champs to use your hatred, which is also generated very rapidly due to your high ias. Echoing blast is superior than the rune that throws down 3 at once in my opinion because you can usually keep the packs standing in 1 spot, you get loh from each tick, and a lot of times with the other one the mobs simply won't trigger all 3 traps.
With around 1k loh you are very tanky as well and can pretty much facetank all but the nastiest packs. Numbing traps and the guardian shield also help keep you alive. You can inspect my two demon hunters, one uses this build and has an easier time doing monster power inferno than my crit build dh which has significantly more valuable gear (for hc), so yeah the equipment cost is very reasonable.
I'm really stoked to see such a great response already! Just so you guys know, the builds I generally propose would be classified as hybrids. That is, they can take some hits while still being able to pump out damage. I'll never propose a glass canon to anyone (simply useless at high MP), and tanks aren't my thing either. I'll try to give my best shot at the less conventional builds though.
From what I can gather from your build, you seem to want to concentrate on eHP. You've currently got 750k (which is incredible actually). You're currently sitting at 75k unbuffed DPS, so it's a tough situation if you want to keep the stats you said you want to keep. One spot I definitely see an upgrade for is your headgear. If you can get a mempo with good dex and cc, you can stick an 18% life gem in there. The extra AR gained from that can then be lost on another piece - preferably a piece that can add huge DPS. The spot I would probably go for is your gloves. Drop the AR there and try to get a really big dex bonus along with trifecta gloves.
Alternatively, your deadman's could be upgraded by ~75-100 dex and at least 5% AS. Your right hand ring should also be upgraded. Don't worry about the socket - just go for high dex, crit chance and crit damage (yours is on the low side). Of the two solutions I suggested, I would seriously look into the DML and ring swap. That is an easy place to upgrade your DPS.
I haven't seen a build focused on slowing before, but I'll give it a shot! Something raising a bit of a red flag for me is your eHP. Given that you said you're interested in slowing enemies down as preference over dealing big damage, it suggests to me that you'll need to be able to tank some hits. Your eHP is currently about 150k - far too low to tank. Your resists are reasonable (310), your armour is great - basically all your purely defensive stats are adequate except for one. Your vitality is on the low side right now. Try getting that up to 40k and your eHP will probably shoot up.
Damage-wise, you have great CC and AS. The thing on the low side is your CD. You're at less than 250% right now. You want to be over 300% for sure. Also, increasing your dex would help you both offensively and defensively. Obviously dex increases your damage output, but it also increases your dodge chance. That translates into eHP.
I would look into upgrading your left ring and ammy to have CD, CC, and much higher dex. Also, swap out of your leg inna's set for the new one. It gives much higher vit/dex bonuses as well as increased holy damage, AS and MS. Also consider trading your lacunas for AR/high dex strongarms. Not everyone likes them, but I feel like they have great stats for their price,
That's some seriously hipster requirements haha. The reason plenty of people use nats and innas is because of how good it is! It's hard to top the combined set bonuses of innas and nats of 260 dex and 7% CC, not to mention the high dex, vit, and natural AS, CC and MS innas gives. Ice climbers are viable, but I don't really see the point. Nats boots are nearly as good and become even better once you start getting the set bonuses. Witching hour is only good if you get a good one, otherwise the two piece innas set wins out. Getting high DPS with a WF is a tough gig. If I put on a very high end one, I'm somewhere around 180k DPS WITH steady aim and archery. My unbuffed DPS right now is only 170k. With your requirements and budget, it simply won't be possible to get what you want. If you'd be willing to settle for a far more cost efficient and effective route, I'd gladly help you out. Other than that, I don't know what to suggest other than the the usual speal of "increase your CC, CD and AS". Your CC definitely needs some work, and the nature of being a WF user means that your CD will be low. Your AS is fine, so see what you can do to make up CD and CC in exchange for AS. I can't think of much more to suggest, sorry!
I definitely like having a 4pc nats set. The extra disc is SO useful when it comes to tough reflect fights in higher MP, or just simply vaulting around if that's your thing. If you're going for a nats sight, try to get one with CC. Believe it or not, your eHP is very much on the low side. Your AR is great, armour is adequate, so really it just comes down to your vit. Don't underestimate the effect of armour (str) on your eHP. It adds up quickly. As it currently is, your survivability almost exclusively comes from your 2k life per second recovery and LoH. If you lose that, I suspect that you'll find yourself dying far more often. Offensively, you're in really good shape. Keep increasing your dex if you can, but other than that, there isn't much to suggest. A little extra AS wouldn't hurt. Your CC is basically at or past the point of diminishing returns. You *might* be able to upgrade your CD a bit without going overboard, but again, it might be too much to be worth it at your stage. In summary, increase dex and increase your vit (and armour if possible).
I was mainly referring to gear, but I can definitely advise a build to go along with it. Being a hand crossbow user, your AS is already quite high which is why your build is currently working for you. Seems like a reasonable build you have. As for your proposed build, I have a couple comments. Having no CC or CD, your damage will be low. One of the keys of being a DH is having CC and CD. Without that, everything will die very slowly (This is assuming that CD and CC effect your build - I simply don't know haha). If things die slowly, you REALLY need to stack eHP. That means super high armour (probably even a shield), super high vit, super high AR, etc. While I wouldn't personally advise this build, it comes down to what you will find fun. If you enjoy that type of playstyle and can make it work, more power to you! Let me know how it works out.
Edited by Genesis#1518 on 10/30/2012 12:45 AM PDT
@Mondo, thanks a lot mate, I will surely refer to your gear and skill setup for my build in softcore
@Genesis, thak you too
You can see Mondo profile on http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Mondo-1150/hero/28087217
It was pretty much spot on on what I'm trying to achieve.
Except I will try bow with archery for more raw for the sentry since I was playing in softcore
I wasnt suspecting to have high DPS with 0cc and 0cd
I hope I could hit around 40-50k DPS considering I'm not stacking armor/vit/ra/LoH as high as Mondo
But yeah, as you said, if we kill things slowly, this build is going to have a good amount of eHP
Spot on, I had another defense helm with a socket for xp farming with very high AR and armor. I was thinking to swap the glove out too and the DML but was looking for something with more +% bola damage which is pretty hard. As for the ring, yeah, I admit its pretty low besides having high Vit, will swap that out for a better one. Mempo is doable if is just iAs roll, but with crit, I guess I need to take some time to make it happen or find one myself hehe. Thanks for the suggestion.
My dh has ben idle for about three months and i impulsely bought a pair of danetta 's few days ago.
I think i will give the dh ae try but my knowledge is too outdated for the class.
Would u plz advise me on how to gear up and what skill to use if iwant to go the dw route?
Any skill combinations for DH u can suggest? built my DH using the things i found with my barb.
Check it out.
currently loving night stalker alot since it gives me perma discipline with 2.++ aspd and a good cc. :P
any help is greatly appreciated!
I have a 50mil budget and need all new gear. I'd like to go with a Windforce with socket 1200+DPS which are going for around 15mil. Also, if your up for the challenge I'd like to incorporate some other Legendaries within my budget. Maybe there are some 2nd or 3rd legendary tier items that get overlooked but are still really good.
Edited by Oceanminded#1201 on 10/30/2012 10:32 AM PDT
I would certainly appreciate some advice. I'm basically flat broke, a few mil to play with.
My helm is actually andy's with about 150 dex, just using this one to paragon level.
I'm also open to changing up my skill choices, mostly experimenting right now. I've been looking at trying to get a cheap calamity to test out as well.
I could use some feedback. I'm working towards getting better gear and only have 5 million right now. So I need to save up but I think what I have so far is pretty decent for how much I spent so far (I payed 12 million for DML. I found both my nat embrace, Inna pants, and windforce). If you don't mind, can you tell me what I am doing wrong so far? Or how much all resist and vit i should focus on. Items I should replace? Cause I honestly do not have much survivability. What MP lvl do you think I should farm at? Did I spend too much on my Dead man Legacy lol?
Edited by Static#1588 on 10/30/2012 11:32 AM PDT
A good alternative would be an andys. While it won't have any AR, my andys gives me a 23k DPS boost - and that's on top of my CC nats sight. It's a cheap and dirty DPS booster haha.
One thing about hand crossbows is that they will hinder your DPS unless you have very good ones. Based on your barb, I imagine you've got some funds (or the ability to gather them) to get a decent DH going. If you're interested in a big rework of your gears, I can try to modify the build I made last night to fit your budget. If you had 100m to throw into it, I bet I could get you up to 125k+ unbuffed DPS with great survivability.
Your necky is pretty good, but it lacks some vit. That is a key item to get vit on in my opinion. Your andys should either be swapped for a high dex non soc or a soc one with equal dex, or to a mempo. Your shoulders, gloves and bracers are pretty good. Your rings need high CC though. Overall, if you were to just switch up a few things and get a DML and manticore, your DPS would probably jump up a lot.
As for your skills, they seem fine to me. Not sure if you need to double up with boar, but then again, your hatred regen doesn't really require a bat (given the nature of DW).
The biggest thing about your build is that you're using SS. That is something you want to drop for sure. Your CC is in the range at which it doesn't add much to you for general gameplay (debatably useful for uber farming, but that's situational).
Some things I noted is that your HP is pretty low. Try to add another 10k on there. Without a 4pc nat set, you may want to look for some +disc on your armour or quiver (or both). Having a higher disc pool is extremely useful. Since you're not really optimizing your headgear slot, I would suggest dropping your sight for a mempo, andys, or equivalent rare and replacing your left ring with a reflection. Your eHP is great (270k), so now you should just try to concentrate on DPS. For you, that will largely come by increasing your CC, CD and AS a little bit, but mostly your dex. It's almost exclusively your dex holding you back honestly. The way to progress from here is probably by getting a 2 piece innas set with decent dex. You'll get the 130 dex set bonus as well as high dex from both pieces. Easily 300 dex right there.
You have excellent CC, CD and AS. That's a pretty good bow you've got there honestly. A manticore would boost you more, but if thats your preference, it's certainly not holding you back. You're at 127k unbuffed DPS right now, which is excellent. Your eHP is kind of low though, and I feel that has a lot to do with your low vit. Try to make up a bit of extra life and you'll probably survive much better. Other than that, just keep trying to increase your AS, CC, CD and dex as best you can.
Your DPS is definitely too low to make it through MP5 efficiently. 47k unbuffed will be a struggle, but your eHP is looking good. 240k is definitely in the range I like to see. Your attack speed is far too low. You definitely need to get that up to 1.6 at least. Your CD is also on the low side. Try to get it up to 300+ if you can. Your DPS is also hurting because of your dex. Try to get that over 2k - youll notice huge jumps in DPS with that. Consider dropping your bow for a higher DPS manti, your belt and pants for a 2 piece innas set, your boots for nats boots, and your right ring for something with 2 trifecta stats. Your ammy could use some dex and vit on there too.
That will indeed be a challenge! I don't know exactly what results I could come up with using a WF, but I can definitely do some thinking. What sort of legendaries did you have in mind? I think I kind of know where I would need to modify my sample build to get good results with a bow, but I'll have to do some tinkering. Sinking 15m into a WF is going to really hurt though. The build I used had a 5m bow on it haha. Let me know if you want me to do it and I'll put some thought into it tonight. Got a bunch of work to do today :p
Can't see your profile!
I've been faced with this problem once before. Don't worry though, the solution is simple. What I did is I doubled up a coffin. Once that box is in the ground in a cemetery, who would think to dig it up?
One things you definitely should do is getting inna's belt. While you may lose some vit there, you'll get a 130 dex boost, 1% CC boost, on top of a holy damage boost. That right there will cause your DPS to jump substantially. You are right though, your eHP is very low. Your life is a bit on the low side - you might consider trying to get another 5-7k. Resists are a bit low, but not critical. You're only 20 lower than me actually. A big difference is that I've made up some extra eHP through having high armour. If you're looking for new pieces and see that some have extra str on there, or +armour bonuses, don't overlook them. While they aren't the main stats of DHs, they do add to survivability in a big way. The only reason I can get away with low resists is because of those things. A big issue right now is your budget. With that much, you wonn't be able to change your gear significantly. Don't worry about the MP level really. I would just do MP0 or 1 with your stuff. When I farm, I only do 3 or 4 anyways - it's about efficiency. While higher MP levels are possible, they take more time than it's worth. Keep at it!
Your DML is pretty nice. You may have overpaid a bit for it though. The one I simulated last night for my build was only 5m, had nearly the same AS and CC, but had another 70ish dex more. Though, it had a useless bonus on it, but that's not the end of the world :p
I'm looking for legendaries that maybe are overlooked yet still viable and affordable. I'm thinking "The Inquisitor" for chest, "Firewalkers" for boots, "Strongarm Bracers" for wrists, "Andariels Visage" for helm, "Depth Diggers" for legs, etc. Obviously I won't be able to afford all of those but those are some examples I was thinking of for a build. Would this be doable with a Windforce for 50mil??
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