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I'd love some suggestions, Genesis.
My budget is fairily low at the moment (2.5M) but I'm looking forward to sell some items and get around 15-20M.
I usually do look for items with decent armor and resists, but my eHP is still lowish.
(Oh yea, and I'm completely clueless when it comes to rings - I never figured what's good on'em).
This thread is so helpful. I've learned alot just by skimming through 9 pages. Diabloprogress lists my eHP at 130k. While I'm very aware of this issue currently where I have serious problems versus fast moving reflect damage (and snakes!), I've mostly hit a gearing brickwall where I'm unsure where to move on from here. I don't yet suffer significant difficulties in my gameplay however. Comfortably farming MP4 and I do MP5 once in a while when I feel like doing something challenging.
Anyways, I hope you could have a look through my gear and see if there's any immediate improvements I can make. I've recently upgraded my bracers and to the new Hellfire ring (yes I have been running MP6 machines on below 100k eHP). Right now I'm keeping an eye out on the AH for a decent helmet, but I don't really know what to look for. I'm not too keen on a Mempo because I'd lose 5.5% crit chance so I'm looking for something decent with crit %, vitality, resist all, dex, and hp%. If you think I'm on the right track here, could you give me a rough estimate on what price I would be expected to pay?
@Genesis - you're absolutely right about the mempo. Don't know what I was thinking of, maybe nat's helm, derp. I actually started the process of moving my vit around, and got an amulet that allowed me to stick the emeralds back in my pants and brought me to 32k hp while gaining over 50 res all and increased my damage output about 10k... the only drawback being losing 800loh, but I figured that if I can keep gloom up it isn't going to matter. Night stalker would probably help with that. Don't know what to change out for though. Maybe steady aim? Would drop me back to 130k damage though. Hm.
With regards to move speed, I'm starting to gain an appreciation for it. It seems to be helping me kite better.
I really do appreciate the advice. I'm not taking it as gospel, per se, but I've already used it to make some improvements. It's good to have another pair of eyes.
This is a great thread! I am a new DH(been playing Barb forever in D2 and D3)
Can my fellow DH advise me progress further of my DH please?
I have around 200-300mil budget.
I am quite happy for my health, maybe a little bit more resist and armor.
Mainly I want more DPS without sacrifice my defensive stats. thoughts?
Just wondering if I'm working on a viable build here... I'm unfortunately at work on a 12 hour shift today so while I get to think about it, I don't actually get to test it. My gears not the best, but it is getting me just over 160K DPS and I've only got 1 socketed item which happens to be my c-bow. But, I thought I'd give this a try:
L-Mouse- Hungering Arrow/Devouring Arrow
R-Mouse- Bola Shot/Immenent Doom
(yep, giving my mouse clicks two primary skills)
1- Shadow Power/Gloom
3- Spike Trap/Sticky Trap (this being integral to the build)
4- Preparation/Battle Scars
P- Steady Aim
My plan as is being if I toss out those Sticky Traps that spamming both hatred generating HA/DA + BS/ID should be enough to quickly vanquish any monster in the 30 sec time frame triggering the massive Sticky Trap damage while constantly keeping my resource full enough to keep tossing the traps out there. Plus, HA/DA & BS/ID already do quite a bit of damage on their own even if I never get to trigger the trap in instances like higher MP levels.
Hmm, also thinking of dropping the Steady Aim in favor of Custom Engineering to increase my maximum trap allotment from 3 to 6... Though with my less than stellar gear I've gotten quite used to kiting and keeping my distance.
Also, the Reflect Damage affix scares the snot out of me while thinking of this build.
Edited by hooligan#1191 on 11/10/2012 12:41 PM PST
I'm glad you've learned! My goal was to show people what is important for a DH and some possible ways of achieving it.
With 100m, you can definitely make this build work a lot better. Since your DPS is reasonable, I would suggest working on ways to get eHP up. Two places that need improving are your ammy and bracers. Both should have some sort of AR or vit (or both!), and your ammy should have a second trifecta. A super easy way to get higher eHP is with your helm. Consider getting a mempo kinda like mine. It's not particularly expensive and will give you a huge eHP boost with a small DPS loss. While andys is a nice and cheap source of DPS, it is a limiting piece of equipment. The fire damage and lack of socket (if you're into the high dex variety) is limiting. Mempos are basically the best item for headgear, both in terms of eHP and DPS.
Absolutely upgrade your manti. Either go for a higher DPS 2 soc with dex or a high damage and dex 1 soc. Mine isn't amazing by any stretch, yet it gave me an 8k DPS boost over my 1075 DPS 2 soc. You definitely need to get your HP up too. I would try to get another 15k at least, so that makes me strongly suggest getting a mempo with a vit gem.
At some point in time, you'll probably want to switch over to 3 piece nats. The extra CC and dex that comes with the set is excellent. Take a look at my sample build for the way I set everything up. I basically managed to get 7k DPS less than your current build with triple the eHP. Compare, mix and match where you can and I bet you'll be able to pull off a pretty nice build. If you have any more questions, let me know!
Yeah, that's basically how everything is. It's a dance between DPS and survivability. The best way I have come up with to deal with it is to concentrate certain items for certain roles. Having a little bit of everything on every slot is generally more expensive than dedicating the focus of an item slot to either DPS or eHP. While this clearly isn't ideal, particularly for high end DHs, it is a cost efficient way of doing it.
One mistake I see with your build (happens to tons of people) are your shoulders. While vile wards are great, they are only great if you have vit on them! You can find viles that are much better without going crazy on cost. The ones in my sample build were 5m I believe. They gave me 150 dex, 150 vit and 50 AR. While the DPS and AR is slightly lower than 99% of viles, the HP on there is higher than 99% of viles for only a fraction of the cost. This nets you a huge eHP boost at a minor DPS loss.
The next thing you might consider changing are your bracers. Yours are pretty nice, but strongarms like mine would probably give you the same DPS, yet much more HP. You don't need ones with the stats that mine have, but the %life on them paired with some vit and high dex will definitely help you.
Third is your belt and pants. I generally feel that if you're not going to use a 2 piece innas set, you'd better not skimp out on the belt and pants. By that I mean get high dex, high vit, high AR and definitely have socs. Innas is a great set to get DPS, but it seems that you're using those slots for eHP. Some day consider changing that!
Also, a cheap nats ring would boost your DPS significantly. Even the cheapest one you can get would be an improvement over your hellfire.
Once you get to level 60, come back here and I'll see if I can help you out. There isn't really a point in trying to optimize a build before you can equip the good stuff. If you have the gold or means to buy it, the build in the first post is a good direction to go in. It's a great starting point for new DHs that will give you good DPS and eHP.
You've got good eHP, so that's good! For rings, I basically look for something that has CD, CC and dex. Average damage is a great DPS bonus, but adds cost.Trifecta rings are a double edged blade. Good ones are amazing, bad ones are BAD. So basically, don't get a trifecta unless you get a really good one. I am of the opinion that a DH using a crossbow can make up adequate attack speed by using nats reflection, innas pants and a DML. If you're using a mempo (which you are), you're in even better shape. For that reason, I try to stick CD and CC on everything I can.
Good shoulders! I'M GLAD SOMEONE HAS CAUGHT ON! Your ammy definitely needs some dex on it, and maybe some vit too (though keeping the AR with all that will be pricey, so you might want to pick one or the other). Try getting a DML with a bit more AS vit and dex. They aren't too much if you don't care about the bonus (but you might since I see you do use bola). Some day, consider switching over to 3 piece nats. That will give you a good DPS boost. Also try upgrading your manti. Since you're using a 1 soc, try getting one with higher DPS. Overall, you've got a really solid build though.
That's brave! Well done, I'm glad to hear you've learned some things.
While I understand your reluctance to give up 5.5% CC, the stats you are interested in basically only come from mempos! So you're absolutely on the right track. A mempo would REALLY ease some of your eHP problems. Remember that while you are losing the CC, you gain attack speed, will get more dex (high dex ones are pretty common now), plus all the additional life and AR you'll get. I dropped my CC nats sight for a mempo last week. I wasn't sure about it, but now I don't even consider switching back. In fact, I stuck it in the AH today! Mine gave me over 100k eHP and added 9k DPS, merely at the cost of 20 disc. I wanted more disc, so I had to reduce the stats on my armour, but still came out with over 100k more eHP and 6k DPS more, and will likely profit once my nats sight sells. I suggest thinking about it, but it's all about what makes you happy! My mempo was either 30 or 40m (can't remember) including the gem. You can get ones without vit for MUCH less.
Next thing on the list are your shoulders. Viles are nice, but yours don't have any vit. That's crucial, so I suggest looking for rares with AR, dex and vit. You'll likely lose some dex and AR, but you'll get a ton more vit. With that vit gain, you'll be able to switch your vit gems out for dex gems which will result in more DPS.
Fair enough! Yeah, I can't stop suggesting mempos, especially for people low in eHP. They are just great. That's the right idea with the ammy. Next thing I would do is your shoulders (not sure if I said that before). That should get you tons of HP. Paired with a mempo and your HP and eHP will surely be at a point where you can start working on DPS again.
At this point, your eHP is getting into a great spot. You basically doubled it since I last viewed it on diabloprogress. You're at 260k right now. With that, I figure you can drop perfectionist for night stalker. Steady aim is great for farming (which should be on low MP) since you'll be able to nuke everything right away at a distance.
You're definitely heading in the right direction! Great job.
You've got a great looking build, so your budget should do quite a good amount of work! With that sort of budget, I would suggest you take a look at my actual build. Key parts to focus on are getting CD or CC on your nats ring, higher dex (or a higher end ring) on your right. A litany ring kinda like mine is a good option since it gives you CC as a base paired with good dex and AR. Getting CD or AS on there too is good, but increases the cost. I'd highly suggest getting a mempo like mine. The eHP you get from that is vital. With that, you could afford the eHP drop in changing your belt and pants out for innas. That will give you a great DPS boost. Also upgrade your bow. Either go for a higher damage 2 soc or a very high damage 1 soc, both with dex. Other than that, just try to improve all that stats on your items. There is room to get higher dex/vit/CC/CD on a lot of your stuff (though your CC isn't bad).
Good! Actually, the opposite is happening. Good things are becoming much cheaper now. Things I have been upgrading have lost 50% of their value, some even more. A few things retained their value, but for the most part, prices are plummeting.
Interesting choice of build. A build like this might have some validity in high MP, but I wouldn't use it for low MP farming. I'm more of guy who relies on putting out high damage with bolas (for elites) with gloom on so I can just sit there and facetank. For everything else, its just me putting out BL for AoE.
While your build may be viable, something that stands out for me is the l sack of AoE. I would personally pick either HA or bola as a hatred regen and then use BL for AoE. Reflect shouldn't be a problem if you're using gloom. I never die to reflect elites unless I forget to gloom by zoning out. Problem is that you don't have disc regen at all, so you'd get owned by anything with reflect.
Some people really like this type of gameplay, particularly since the latest patch. The only time I could ever see myself using spike traps is against ubers. For farming, that sort of gameplay suggests that you plan on spending too much time on each encounter. Don't get me wrong; there's far more than one way to play the game, and I don't want to discourage creativity. It's just not the sort of style I can see myself playing from both an efficiency and damage output perspective, so I don't think I'm the right guy to give you feedback.
@genesis Already dumped perfectionist in favor of Night Stalker. Boy oh boy were you right. I can practically spam shadow power non stop using spray of teeth against large groups. It's glorious. Dumped my boots in favor of a semi-decent pair of nat's. Loving it. can trail groups and blast away when necessary, and enjoying the heck out of covering ground faster. The dps numbers look smaller since I dropped steady aim, but given the increased uptime of gloom, likelihood is that I'm putting out more damage because I'm having to spend less time avoiding getting hit and more time TANKING LIKE A BOSS. Bidding on a better bow as we speak. Having a tough time finding better shoulders, but less worried about it now that I've got 120 vit on my present bow and 140+ on the one I am bidding on.
Edit: No luck on the bow, got outbid. spent 10m on a calamity instead. Got the mempo, made up for the loss of the vit on the bow. Even scored LS on the calamity. gained a little dps, CC, and marked for death in the bargain, 36k + hp. The attack speed and CC increase and hate regen from calamity have my resources filling at an alarming rate. Pretty darned cool.
Edited by Cerberus#1425 on 11/10/2012 9:01 PM PST
I like what you have done and the advice your providing.. I was hoping to see what you think of my build and if you have any suggestions on better items. I have roughly 50mil to play with but am unsure where to invest as most items only give me a little more dos/vit.
I want to hit 200k dps as im surviving just fine but feel i need more damage. Any advice would be great. Thanks
Actually it was a drop :) So were the WF and Andy's. I could never afford to buy a decent legendary, unfortunately. The most gold I've ever seen was the 4m I mentioned, and that's gone now on some minor upgrades on a budget. I'm looking at jewelry now, but man is it pricey! I guess it's more runs for me hoping for some lucky drops...
Since it's not your exact type of build you'd play I'd say you're the perfect person to ask. You've given me some things to think about. Thanks!
Given some of your insights, it looks like I may have a bit more tweaking to do until I find the build that works for me.
Update: Yeah, my build does run into a significant issue... The delay of BS/ID can be a killer waiting for that to go off and the large damage of ST/ST can't be counted on until you actually kill the marked monster...
Also, yeah, I forget to hit SP/G when I encounter Reflect Damage all the time; need to work on that. :-\
Thanks again for letting me pick your brain.
Thank you so much Genesis! great thread and I will take your advise and see what I can do with it :D
This thread is really really helpful!
I've been playing DH since the start of the game but I realized that I've been playing the catch up game all along because I never really asked anyone for help until now. I'm glad that you've spent so much time helping others, thanks!
I mainly play by myself so I always use Templar as my follower for heal/mf. My budget is pretty limited (~30mil at this moment) and I don't have any of the godly gears. Am I pretty much out of luck? Should I just keep doing MP1 runs (act 3 any elites + Cydaea -> Azmodan) and farm up for better items?
I don't really have a build preference, so I'd like to hear what you could suggest for mine. I've been trying to increase my AR but I am still so squishy (probably not enough VIT)... I can do MP5 but I think I'll only do it for key runs.
Oh one more thing, is my current bow still semi decent? I find LoH seems to be better than LS... or would you suggest another weapon to use? I know I am pretty far from a decent build, but any suggestions to point me in the right way would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Edited by Luooo#1181 on 11/11/2012 8:42 PM PST
Hi, I'm trying to stack up a good amount of dps in game, but after looking the unbuffed dps I've stacked, I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong. I've been playing around with crit rates/damage and dex.
Here's what the website gave me:
Hey there Gen, been following this thread semi-closely and would like your 2 cents on what to do at this point. I like the build im running with marked for death on the calamity and in my opinion the next step would be to get a higher dps calamity. Problem is now im looking for 500m ish + for a weapon and have 100m atm. So what's your 2 cents?
Fyi- Marked for death i don't use its the calamity effect that its useful for for aoe damage on mobs and or elites.
Thanks for your input!
Most of the gear on me is found so forgive the bad build
What pieces would you recommend keeping and losing.
Survivability is important , my daughter plays my DH and hates dying! (ferrets have to stay)
I know she need more AR.
Gloom over Lingering fog?
Thanks in advance : )
I'm glad you like night stalker. I don't know how I used to manage without it haha. Yeah, you definitely end up being faster id you don't have to kite or risk death. For your bow, make sure it's got good DPS before you start looking for vit. Vit is nice, but DPS in a DPS slot is what I would go for! Haven't used a decent hand crossbow before, so I can't comment. I saw some guy post a 1250 DPS calamity with a soc and high CD (basicallt worth a ton) and it ended up giving me over 6k LESS DPS than my craptastic bow. I don't know how much better calamity's get, but I feel like that was towards the high end, yet it didn't really compete with my manti. Some people swear by handbows though, so if you find it fun, ignore all my comments and just enjoy it!
That's a great build! The one thing standing out for me is your bow. While it's not bad (I just gave up one like it for my current manti), it cost me like 30m and added like 8k DPS. While it's not a 2 soc, I gained a bunch of DPS and will basically result in higher damage and walk out 20-30m ahead. Your next step might also involve you upgrading your rings. Try getting a reflection with either CC or CD on it and find another ring to replace your hellfire (or get a better one). Those things should put you over 200k. Failing that, just keep upgrading dex!
It looks like youve got some gold, so I'll skip the crap. Get yourself nats boots, ditch the ice climbers for decent nats boots, replace your helm with a high dex mempo, replace your shoulders with shoulders that have equal dex, similar AR, except like 150 vit (and slap life% on there too if you can) - doesn't need to be viles. Your ammy is pretty loaded with stuff, but try simulating something that has CC on it too. Same deal with your gloves. For DPS, drop your belt and pants for innas. Since your hellfire has both CD and AR, you could keep it for now, but eventually try to find something better. Finally, get yourself a better manticore. Aim for 1200+ DPS 1 soc.
You don't need to do all that in one go, but that is the direction I think your build should move in to optimize both eHP and DPS.
Nice drop then! Either way, I would absolutely sell it if I were in your position. That gold could be used to gain much better stats. You could probably get the same DPS from a cheap innas belt. That's a really good drop to get the ball rolling - sell it and take a look at my build for guidance!
Ah ok. Yeah, that delay can be rough which is why I only use it on elite packs. I sit there and facetank so there are constant explosions (extra damage from my quiver). It also helps clear out other white trash or elites at the same time, so I find it quite efficient. Particularly with bola, there is a finesse to glooming at the perfect time. With the delays, you'll have a second or so after gloom runs out where you won't take any damage (bolas from before will blow up and heal you). It's not a huge thing, but every second counts!
Thank you! I'm really glad that you guys like the advice. I was afraid people wouldn't be interested or would just tell me off.
I used to use templar too, but found myself really liking scoundrel in 1.0.5. The reason is twofold: firstly, I get nearly 10k DPS from him (yay). Secondly, if you slap a WF on him and get him using scatter shot, it just pounds everything away from you. I've literally had elites getting stunned back into walls for 10+ seconds straight haha. I highly suggest giving it a shot. Templar is good for MF though, I'll give you that. I get half the MF, but a much more effective partner. Worth the trade imo.
Since you're at 30m, I would suggest you keep farming until you hit around 75m. The build in the first post cost about 75m when I first created the thread (prices have most likely dropped even more). Since your build is largely rare based, and it sounds like you'd like to still improve, a fresh start following that build as a guide might be just what you need. Some pieces can stay (ammy is good, shoulders are reasonable, etc.). Take a look at that build and compare it to yours to see what you might want to switch out of. I've only heard good things about the people who have tried the build.
As far as farming goes, stick to MP1. Anything higher and you spend too much time killing things (or dying) to be worth it. I normally do MP3, but have found myself doing MP2 as of late. As far as your bow goes, I like manticores. High damage, CD, soc, etc. All adds up to a high damage bow that isn't terribly expensive. LS is a bit of a luxury. I wouldn't go out of my way to get it as it increases the cost of a good bow dramatically. Gloom should be your primary source of LS.
One place I would immediately go to are your boots, but that's tough. You'll gain some DPS from the dex boost (provided you get ~200 dex on them), but you'll lose the %life and would only get vit if you paid a ton. So maybe not nats boots. Your gloves definitely have room for dex. Look for ones like mine (if my profile hasn't updated from my tank test, its basically the same just 150 dex and no AR).
It's tough when you get to your stage. You basically have to make tradeoffs between eHP and DPS. You might want to take a look at my actual build. You've got some pretty excellent stuff, so you might find some ideas looking at how I've gone about it. My profile hasn't updated as of now, so you can find the link to my build on the first post. I know this isn't really advice - I can't see anything standing out, so it's really tough. Upgrades will come slowly (and expensively), so just keep plugging along.
I don't see anything fatally wrong. Yout shoulders could use some vit on them, but as far as your DPS stats are concerned, you're doing alright. CC is great, CD is great, but your attack speed is quite low. I have two suggestions for that. First, get yourself a high dex mempo. Second, ditch one of your rings for nats reflection and replace the other with a high dex CD/CC ring. Oh, and DEFINITELY upgrade your DML. Having 11% AS is pretty brutal. If you ignore the damage bonus, you can get a ton more DPS very cheaply.
That's a good looking build. I'm not a calamity user myself, and as I found out yesterday, even a very high end calamity doesn't really compete with my manticore (which isn't even very good). That was comparing a 1250 DPS calamity with basically everything else the same as yours, and still resulted in lower DPS. What I'm trying to say is that if you want to get a bunch more DPS without blowing all your gold on a good calamity, get a manti. It's a cheap and great alternative.
As for your other stuff, try getting a second trifecta on your reflaction, switch out your vit gems on nats armour to emeralds, and consider getting nats boots (you'll lose the %life, but could gain upwards of 60 dex if you look into 200+ dex boots). Apart from that, I don't have anything negative to say. Keep upgrading your stats and you'll see your DPS keep going up! (an example would be your nats armour - I can see room for another 50 dex pretty cheaply).
Your ammy could use some dex and vit for sure. Consider replacing your hellfire with nats reflection. That should give you a good DPS boost, and would definitely be great if you got a second trifecta on it too. Your WF isn't bad, but your DPS will suffer when using one. If you want a good cheap DPS boost, go for a manti. Your CD and dex will shoot up, and you'll also likely be able to grab another 50 DPS on the base damage of the bow. That's a big upgrade in terms of DPS.
Blackthorne's is not often used on DHs (apart from tank build). If you're going for more of a hybrid, consider dropping that set for innas 2 piece. That gives a great DPS boost. Your shoulders are kinda weird haha. I suggest you go see what you can see for rares with dex, vit and AR. You should be able to get 150/150/50 for around 5m which would upgrade your DPS and HP (allowing you to drop your ammy's gem for an emerald). Also look into upgrading your manticore. Consider getting a high DPS 1 soc. It should net you a pretty nice DPS boost.
Edited by Genesis#1518 on 11/12/2012 12:20 AM PST
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