Diablo® III

Giving Build Advice

Thanks, Genesis.

...but you're getting to the point where gains are small and expensive.


QFT!!! LOL. Yeah, I was lucky I found the boots upgrade as a drop. I found a decent upgrade for my DML at 10 mil that gave me something like 7k dps more, but I'm definitely feeling the budget crisis nowadays. Where once I could buy upgrades at 5 mil or something easy, I can't find any upgrades now less than 10, and most will probably cost me more unless I get lucky. :)
@XxMOOSExX

What that bonus on andy's means is that you actually become more vulnerable to fire. That is, every fire attack done against you will do 22% more damage. For that reason, if you are absolutely convinced that andy's is what you want, you want one with somewhere around 5% fire damage (5 is the lowest). Up to 10 would be acceptable I guess, but 20+ is definitely not going to be good.

By the look of your gear, it seems that you might be able to afford a decent helm. Look into a mempo. While the are expensive with CC on them, even a high dex mempo would probably give you comparable DPS. I'm seeing mempos with 240 dex for around 27m, going up to 278 (wouldn't bother going for anything more expensive than that, since you'll eventually want CC on it). But as an intermediate piece, high dex mempos are pretty great. Slap a little vit on there if you need it, but that increases the cost by a lot and will reduce your ability to get high dex.


Thanks Genesis...I have been doing my best to stack up AR, but I keep getting smoked by moltens. Now I know why...I am stupid at times...I should have knows that 22% more damage taken means "you take the damage!" I have both a high dex mempho and nats w/sockets. Now I am going to try them out again with my current equipment. Thanks again!
Hi Genesis, I play on EU, but have been reading your posts for a while and must admit I became a fan :)
I also feel I became stuck with further upgrading on my DH - originally I got pissed in 1.0.4 because all the one shotting and bought myself a cheap legacy Nats to be able to ToC and Gloom freely.
Now I´m doing well but had to make a build complementary to my abysmal APS.
My gear can take some toggling with stats (as you can see most stats are divided complementarily) but everything thats a straightforward upgrade is just SO expensive now.
Should I lose the legacy set or not?
Just my selffound Andys, worth about 250k on AH when I checked, is a 18k DPS upgrade...
Then again the disc regen feels so convenient :)
Can a raw DPS upgrade actually compensate its loss? I have no idea...
I´d be grateful for your kind advice :)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shinjoker-1476/hero/6651438

Whoops, didn't realize that. Is there a way to just show my D3 profile instead of WoW?

Anyway, I'm looking at Inna pants atm, but vit pants are outside of my price range. More farming, I know, I know.
how do i progress from here? please advise..
hey so you helped me get my build going a few weeks ago and I got some more funds now (around 32 Mil). Was wondering where you think I should upgrade.

I was considering a 250Dex Vile ward (with no vit), a higher dps Manti, or a gloves upgrade. What do you think?
@Gensis Finally bought an amulet as you suggested, gave me a whopping 10k dps and 3k life!
Also upgraded my bracers by putting some vit on them.
My next goal should be what? Get Vit on my mempo?
And what should I do with my DML? Should I sacrifice some vit for some dex?
-Thanks
Having read your post I can see I am lacking in eHP, attacks per second and maximum life. Currently I have around $700k so I am on a budget.

I have been using this page as what to upgrade for my gear getting the poor mans version of the item.

http://www.viciouscattle.com/forum/thread-1002-1-1.html

Right now my focus is getting a hellfire ring for the 30% bonus to experience. But it has been painfully slow. So far 28 times to get the act 4 plan and still nothing at mp0. Tried a couple of times with a buddy at mp6 with a buddy and still no luck.

I appreciate the advice.
hi can i get some advice on how to get my dps up to 200k while improving on survivability. am currently comfortable farming act 3 with dual wield though it gets slow on some elites. without the hellfire ring im around 50% crit chance with 500% crit damage though my hp is only at 30k with all resist at 380 with perfection. slowly getting slight upgrades on some gear while waiting for a better calamity that i can afford. am also mulling over dropping my danetta for dml.

thanks
@Slak3r

Thanks! Your CC and CD are great, so that's not a concern. Your attack speed could be a bit higher though (but it's not the end of the world). The two things that stand out for me are your bow and wailing host ring. For the bow, it's a pretty low damage 2 soc. I know for a fact that you can get a significantly better one for barely anything. Speaking of which, I just upgraded my bow so if you want the one currently equipped, let me know. I'll sell it to you for less than market value (absolutely no pressure though, just thought I'd offer it). Your wailing host isn't terrible, but I know that you can definitely do a lot better with rare rings. Same sort of deal with your litany, but at least it's giving you some AR too, so that's ok. I know I may sound like a hypocrite since I'm using a litany, but the only reason is because I've got CD on it too. If I didn't, I'd probably be looking at rares. You may want to look into getting some more vit (such as on your shoulders and gloves) to help increase your eHP. Other than that, nothing is standing out for me! Short of getting difectas on your rings (if you do that, I suggest a reflection to get the set bonus out of it), I wouldn't change much. Improving your dex will always be something you can do, or just getting better combinations of eHP and DPS stats on your gear. Looking good!

@Nightmare

Congrats! You're getting up there. To be honest, those ice climbers are probably giving you comparable, if not better overall DPS and eHP as nats boots would (unless of course you went into very high end boots). Not a bad choice!

@Mohafala

If you're farming for exp, one of the key parts is to kill stuff fast without dying. To do that, you need DPS. Your's isn't bad, but I think you may want to increase it a bunch to make it so you can just rip through everything.

As for the gem question, I would say no. Sure, you'd gain a few percent, but weigh the costs. For 29m, you could build half of my 175k DPS sample build. Since you're not starting from scratch, you could probably gain another 50k DPS if you changed your gear around a bit which would reduce your farming times thus INCREASING your exp. Two different approaches to the same problem, just gearing yourself better overall is not only more fun, but much more useful. Try optimizing your build, then start going for the pricey gems.

Last tip: get a disc regenerator. One big reason you're dying is most likely because you can't gloom often enough. Try night stalker instead of TA.

@WallaWalla

With a 1m budget, I honestly don't know what you can do. Perhaps after finals I will work on a budget build. Take a look at what stats I have in each slot in my sample build (first post). Search for those sorts of stats, just reduced, until you find things that fit your budget. Sorry this isn't much help!

@Oracle

Believe it or not, you'll miss the days when upgrades were only 10m! Haha.

@XxMOOSExX

Glad to have helped! At least you noticed it. When I was first using an andy's, I didn't even care about that stat. I was like "WTF is this?" *ignore* How times change…

@Blackseed

I'VE GONE INTERNATIONAL! WOO.

I decided a couple weeks ago to buy a leg nats set. I'll admit, I didn't use it much, but I was underwhelmed. I thought that I'd be able to just rip through MP10 with permagloom, but I ended up dying a ton. I went back to my original gear and was able to sit there facetanking elites and basically had unlimited gloom with night stalker.

Point being, I found that the DPS and eHP of new nats and a mempo to be more effective. This might not be true for low MP farming (if you can make up enough DPS to still kill things fast enough), but certainly for high MP I'm of the opinion that new nats is cheaper and better. Don't get me wrong, leg nats is viable, but for my playstyle it's not what I like.

If you'd like to see the sort of build I would move to from yours, take a look at the first post. The sample build has been updated and yields pretty decent results.

@Vyral

I think there's an option somewhere in your profile settings. I did it so long ago that I don't remember. There isn't anything that's really standing out for me in terms of things I would change (apart from your pants). Inna's would be a good choice, or similar rares just with a bunch of AR too. You may also look for another 100 dex on your boots. That shouldn't cost too much. You also need to upgrade your gems. Get at least stars everywhere. Other than that, you're on the right track! From here on, it basically comes down to finding stat upgrades (like more dex and vit on your shoulders) for your gear. I don't see anything fundamentally wrong so that's great!

@Cheongster

First of all, I would suggest you get rid of that witching hour. A high dex inna's belt will give you more DPS and probably more (or similar) eHP for less gold. My next suggestion comes with a warning of personal playstyle. I decided to drop my 4 piece nats set for a 3 piece and a mempo. I haven't looked back, but you might miss the disc. I transitioned from 4 piece to 3 piece with extra disc on my armour. Today I decided to change again, so I've dropped that disc altogether. Not sure how much I'll like it, but I'll give it a shot. A mempo would give you more DPS, way more eHP and really open up more options for DPS (that is, you can relocate some of your eHP stats on other slots to your headgear and then give yourself room to max out DPS). Your gloves or left ring, for example, could have more DPS on them.

You may not like it, so I'd suggest if you're willing to at least consider it, buy a cheap mempo and play around with it. If you absolutely hate it, go back. If you feel like it's ok, then I would probably stick with it since it only gets better once you get used to the change.

@wooooooo

Your gloves are fine. While your shoulders could use some more dex, that is a huge loss of vit. I don't think you comprehend how much eHP you'd be losing. Your bow could be upgraded, but I wouldn't blow all your gold on it. I would do two things: first, relocated some of your vit away from your shoulders so that you can move to vile ward. Getting high dex and vit on them is expensive, so as an interim solution, I've tried to keep the pressure off in terms of vit from my shoulders. Second thing is to work on inccreasing your CC. Try to get that up to 45% if you can. While you're at it, see what you can do to make your CD a little higher.

Consider getting a memp with vit, or improving the vit on your nats embrace. I just bought one that has less dex than yours, but nearly 3X the vit. It means you'll take a bit of a DPS loss, but you'll be able to relocate that loss to other slots and come out ahead. By that I mean you could lose 50 dex on your armour and gain 125 vit allowing you to move to vile ward with 250 dex and low (or no) dex with superior resists and armour. You're getting to the point where upgrades will be harder to squeeze out, so definitely simulate everything you do. I spent half an hour trying out different armours today, weighing many different things.

@Diablo

If you can get about 75 dex on your mempo (shouldn't be more than 10m) you should be able to remove those gems in your pants. That will give you a bunch more DPS and keep you approximately even in terms of health. I would also look into improving the vit on your gloves, especially if you're thinking about losing some vit on your DML. You might want to see what sort of dex and vit combos you can get while improving your AS. If you can find something with slightly lower vit (230-240) with substantially higher dex and decent AS and CC (I generally try to go for 85-90% of the max stat in CC and CD for DMLs). By that I mean look for 17%+ AS and 8.5%+ CC as a minimum. Higher CC is better than AS, but don't let AS slack too much! It all adds to DPS.

For DPS, I suspect you could also find a decent manti upgrade without spending too much. I don't know exactly what 1250 DPS manticores are worth, but I don't think they are too bad.

@Mounoploktos

You're right, your eHP is definitely on the low side. I would strongly suggest you don't look at that outline. BIS gearing is, as the name suggests, best in slot. That translates to extremely expensive and only works in specific combinations (and some of the items there are debatable anyways). I would suggest you follow my sample build except instead of searching for the set items, search for the stats they have and go from there. Obviously don't include set item only stats (like CC on pants) when searching, since you won't find it. Not a whole lot of help, I know. It's hard to give advice for gearing with rares since there is so much variety.

@patootie

Since your DW, you lack a quiver which is a HUGE source of eHP. For that reason, you're already disadvantaged in that department. You could get some vit on your pants, but other than that, you're in a tough spot.

For DPS, upgrading your weapons (particularly the calamity) would go a long ways. I know it gets expensive (which is why I generally don't suggest it), but that's one of the only things I see holding you back. Upgrade your gems too though.

If you're on the fence about DML, I'd suggest you go for it. Most top tier calamity users have a DML since it gives such great DPS and eHP. It will solve all your vit/eHP problems if you do it. It's worth trying at least.
@Genesis: Hehe, not a surprise really if you think about it, the advice you give is priceless :D
Thanks for the link, heres mine: http://d3up.com/b/150714#skills
Thing is budget wont do it for me at this point, as the performance of this build is quite similar to mine (of course I paid more- about 175M and actually stand on BTT caltrops during fights).
I can tank both Raka+Ghom on MP7 in coop now which I think is awesome (still remembering vividly getting oneshotted by d1ckticklers and the lickers in 1.0.3 A3).
If I lose the legacy I will go for costly gear but dont want to end up spending tons of gold only to find out that it wasnt quite worth it :D
So, to the core of my question...with 180-200k-ish DPS does the need for disc diminish significantly...will +15-20disc do?
Im afraid of finding the hard and costly way :/
Edited by Blackseed#2750 on 12/4/2012 11:32 PM PST
@Genesis, back for more help after reviewing your budget build, looking at a mempo next, but EHP hasn't really been too much of an issue for me (even up to MP5). More interested in upping my DPS into the 150+s if at all possible. My page shows a set of Lacuni Prowlers, I do have Strongarm Bracers I'm not using at the moment solely because of the pickup radius (for farming purposes). As usual, any advice would be appreciated!
12/04/2012 10:36 PMPosted by Genesis
Believe it or not, you'll miss the days when upgrades were only 10m! Haha.


Oh I know...I'm already starting to feel it. Most under 20 mil upgrades I see give me marginal gains when I plug them into d3up, so I'm slowly having to bank gold. I occasionally still buy something in the "budget" range with marginal returns...I really should stop being such a consumer. Heh.
So i tried to do my best following advice from what i understood, lol.
I just got into farming MP levels, got invited into MP 8 and died a lot.
Then hit an MP5 run and did okay, except for elite.

So I assume i can hit 1-4 decent enough, anyway..

What would you suggest as my next upgrade?
I'm working on saving up for some equip.. lol

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MadRussian-1151/hero/5654172
Genesis, got lucky today and picked up some gear from drops lucky enough. Trying to figure out my next move. I have excelled quite a bit from where I was a few weeks ago. Please let me know. I truly appreciate it. I can run MP2 ok, but I get slaughtered above that. Depending on the group can survive ok in MP5 or MP6.

My profile says 50khp....but it is closer to 29k. I do about 181k dps with SS. Want to start getting away from that. I am afraid this upgrade is going to cost me some money for gems/manticore. I have a WF w/no socket sitting in my stash.
Edited by Mobbes#1606 on 12/5/2012 4:13 PM PST
@Blackseed

Haha thanks. Your build is definitely comparable (honestly better since you're only 17k DPS behind but have higher eHP and permagloom), but my point in directing to you to the sample build is to show you the items I would move to, not neccessarily the stats. You'll clearly want to get a pretty solid gain if you leave leg nats, so I would just look for better versions of these things.

Take a look at my actual gear (profile finally updated). I'm not using leg nats and don't really struggle. MP10 is definitely doable (painfully slow and deaths do happen, but I'm fairly certain I do it better than most who claim to do it easily). The key to going for a new nats/mempo build is to get enough eHP to absorb the damage, and enough DPS (and CC) to make effective use of gloom and keep your disc up. I decided to try out 30 disc instead of the 38-40 I've used in the past. I haven't tested it extensively, but I didn't really notice much of a difference to be honest. I haven't had much time to play lately, so I'm a bit rusty and unpracticed with my new spiketrap/turret build. I was able to survive most elite encounters in a quick little run, largely because I messed up. If you're smoother, I really don't think it would be a problem. Obviously I'm talking about the extreme here, but I don't want to give you any false impressions. I've heard many people say that switching from leg nats to any other build is a bit of a shock and requires a very different playstyle. You can't just sit there spamming gloom anymore, but with proper disc management and night stalker, your gloom will still be near infinite. You may need prep sometimes for when the !@#$ hits the fan, but that's ok. If you're going to try it, I would probably suggest getting 8-10 disc on your nats chest. It should be enough to help keep you alive while you learn the new style.

If you've got any more questions about it, don't hesitate. I'd offer to do some runs with you to show you, but you're in the EU xD

@Reesh

Your eHP is pretty solid honestly, but a large part of that is because of your pants and belt combo. They are far from effective DH pieces in terms of DPS, so if you'd like to progress your DPS much further, you'll have to switch out of them. If you do that, your eHP will no longer be great. This isn't bad news, it's just news. By switching to a mempo with vit, your DPS will still be good but you'll gain excellent amounts of eHP while also reducing the fire damage taken (13% is pretty high and definitely starts to suck at higher MP levels).

If you were to switch to inna's belt and pants, your DPS would go up dramatically. I would also suggest you get a better manti. You should aim for DPS like that on a 2 soc, or look into the 1200+ DPS 1 socs.

@Oracle

Compulsive spending is one of my problems too haha.

@MadRussian

Before I start going into gear, I'd like to really suggest against going into anything higher than MP1 for you. MP0 would probably be best. Your DPS and eHP are both way too low to consider doing anything more.

As far as your gear goes, I would suggest you take a look at my sample build. I don't know what your budget is though, so it's hard to judge exactly what you should do. Based on your current gear, it looks like 75m might be a bit too high. What I'd suggest is taking a look at the gear I've suggested and search for similar things, just with stats that fit your budget. The general idea in that build can still be captured using rares and cheaper alternatives, it just gets less effective without some of the set bonuses.

@Mobbes

Your CC right now is on the low side, but you're not too far from where I would suggest dropping SS. If you can manage to get around 35% CC, I feel that CC starts to become pointless. You definitely need to get your eHP up though. I'd go with a mempo as a starter. The AR and vit you can get on it will really help you. I'd suggest taking a look at my sample build. You've got some of the pieces I would suggest already, so that's a good start. Let me know if you've got any questions about it.
@Genesis

Heard you were the person to go to in need of help/advice. I would like to try and get my damage to 1 mill if at all possible, I don't have access to money right now that I can put into my account, but as you can see from my current items most of it has been brought and a fair bit has been won in battle.

I was told in the past that I should consider a new DML for an awesome quiver, but I love mine because it gives me the Rapid Fire 5% boost because I use it a lot. If I could find one that offers a good boost plus Rapid Fire then that would be great, as well as an affordable 2 socket Manticore, would also like to possibly reach the 1 mill target faster with a boost to attack speed.

But I really don't understand it all that well,

P.S if you could kindly recommend a pair of pants that doesn't always turn out bad, every pair I have ever brought or won or found always lowers my life, damage and protection.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated

Thanks

One last thing, if you do suggest anything please be aware of Abbreviations and all that, I get lost because I do not understand a lot of them, and what they stand for
Edited by DrWho345#6124 on 12/5/2012 8:50 PM PST
I am having trouble figuring out what to do next with my build. I want to get inna's favor for the 130 dex build, but scared it will hurt my all resist and vit... i am still sub 100k dps :( seems anything i want to change will be a big sacrifice in some way or other. please help
@DrWho345

You'd like 1 mill damage? You and me both! That's honestly never going to happen. I'm almost certain it's impossible. Do you mean 100k?

Anyways, I would think upgrading your quiver is a good idea. You could use more AS and dex for sure. As for your comment about rapid fire, I would suggest you move away from it. Give elemental arrow - ball lightening a try. It does great area damage. I wouldn't go out of your way to get a 2 soc bow. While they are better, they get quite expensive and require a second gem. I've flip-flopped between 1 soc and 2 soc manticores in the past. I went from a 1070 DPS 2 soc to a 1260 DPS 1 soc, then to a 1375 DPS 1 soc. Just the other day I pulled the trigger on my current bow. The truth is that a lot of high damage 2 socs were slightly better than my old 1 soc and were WAY more expensive.

That's the long way of me suggesting you not get fixated on 2 sockets, but rather look for the most bang for your buck. That will come with a high damage 1 soc, guaranteed (unless you get a good deal on a 2 soc).

For pants, inna's are one of the best. They will reduce your eHP, but offer great DPS. The only pants that top them are (for some levels of gearing) rare pants with very high dex, vit and AR. Most people stick with inna's though.

Please read my first post. It will explain a lot of the fundamentals and give you a build that you might want to imitate. I'll translate some of the abbreviations:

CC = critical hit chance
CD = critical hit damage
AS = attack speed
AR = all resist
HP = hit points
eHP = effective hit points (total mitigating ability of your gear)

@Delsorbo

Your observation is correct. What that tells me is that your stats aren't optimized for your specific slots. What I mean by that is you're concentrating eHP stats on pieces that I would put the focus of DPS on, or vice versa. Your belt, for example, stacks a bunch of AR and vit on it. I like to use inna's belt since it gives a pretty solid amount of DPS, so I focus on getting DPS there. To compensate for that, I've used my ammy and bracers to help make up. While there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you've done, you're witnessing the effects of it. It basically makes you hit a wall eventually where you can't really upgrade anything without losing out on DPS or eHP.

Progressing further will probably require you to change your build in a big way. You'll want to look into more set items and legendary items in the future. To get an idea of where I would suggest you go, take a look at my sample build. Things are reasonably cheap in it and should really help point you in a direction that will let you progress.
yeah sorry I meant 100k

Thanks for the advice
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