Diablo® III

Voice of the forum Blizzard cares, Why?

11/06/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While indeed the forums (and social media in general) are intended for players to interact and chat with each other about whatever interests them, I whole-heartedly disagree that we don’t care about feedback. We do care, and feedback from the forums has absolutely influenced the direction of Diablo III.


Really? I have one word for you: Beta.
Reply Quote
Id just like to ask Vaeflare if he or someone has read the hundreds of post of lag since patch 1.05 on the technical forums. I took the time to even addres most of those posts on a single one. I asked every post i saw to please reply on my thread so there wasnt a bunch of threads going around. After about 3 weeks and hundreds of post, no technical issue forum manager has rise to help us out. We have explained that the only lag we recieve is from D3. Everyone plays any game without a problem, but when it comes to D3 after patch 1.05, some people have unbearable lag which makes ONLY D3 unplayable. Not ISP problem either as we have demostrated in the hundreds of threads. So i beg you Vaeflare can you pass the this msg to the techinal comitee or anything or even address it yourselve since after weeks of complaining no one has even comented that you guys are trying to solve this issue.

Sign,
A Blizzard Fan since the 90s


Right on, man. And their management is a joke, all they do is just for show. When it comes down responsibility to their customers they don't give a damn. I hope you can show me wrong Blizzard but I doubt it very much you can.
Reply Quote
11/06/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Brahm
They are making the decisions based on metrics (or at least should be). Take note to EVERY Blue post ever.


No, they really shouldn't, at least for most things. There are topics where a huge portion of the community wants something but Blizzard knows it would hurt the game, so they don't do it. Players don't always understand every repercussion and some changes that seem small or easy or simple might have far reaching implications they don't understand fully.

Your outlook of 99% of everything on forums being garbage is a bit cynical. It definitely takes a little work to pick out the good stuff but it's there.

This is not a black or white situation. It's not about Blizzard doing what we say or not doing what we say. What we say is simply a small part of things. Our feedback is mixed in with the rest of their resources to create things. Most of the time it won't seem like they listened because they didn't do EXACTLY what the community said, but that doesn't mean they didn't hear us.

When you bake a cake, you don't see the flour and the eggs anymore but without them there wouldn't be a cake. Would you accuse a baker of not using eggs in their cakes?

They listen, but it won't always seem like it (and it rarely should if they do things right).
Reply Quote
11/07/2012 01:16 PMPosted by Glowyrm
They are making the decisions based on metrics (or at least should be). Take note to EVERY Blue post ever.


No, they really shouldn't, at least for most things. There are topics where a huge portion of the community wants something but Blizzard knows it would hurt the game, so they don't do it. Players don't always understand every repercussion and some changes that seem small or easy or simple might have far reaching implications they don't understand fully.

Your outlook of 99% of everything on forums being garbage is a bit cynical. It definitely takes a little work to pick out the good stuff but it's there.

This is not a black or white situation. It's not about Blizzard doing what we say or not doing what we say. What we say is simply a small part of things. Our feedback is mixed in with the rest of their resources to create things. Most of the time it won't seem like they listened because they didn't do EXACTLY what the community said, but that doesn't mean they didn't hear us.

When you bake a cake, you don't see the flour and the eggs anymore but without them there wouldn't be a cake. Would you accuse a baker of not using eggs in their cakes?

They listen, but it won't always seem like it (and it rarely should if they do things right).


I'm not quite sure where you stand you seem to be arguing both side? Either way 99% is not cynical at all. I think it's quite generous :)
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,029
View profile
If no player ever said anything about a problem they would have reports and analytic showing user behavior to figure things out and a Q&A team on there side. It's only been in the past couple years that forums + games have come together (at least in the history of gaming). They can be a great first responder for bugs but that is it. NES wasn't shipping me a new Super Mario cartridge if I figured out how to do the minus world glitch, or complained that I should get 2 coins per box. Valid unique and constructive suggestions are less likely to take place then finding the exact item you want to drop, but that doesn't mean you should give up! You never know you might get lucky, if you really stand out with a constructive and unique point of view. My point in this all basically was there is no reason to get upset over "crybabies", analytics and brand owners, product managers, or game designers (however you divide up the tasks) in the end are going to prevail over nerd raging forum members ;)


While true for the history game, not so for the forums in it's current state. Most forums of the games that I have participated in have been great places for the devs to find inspiration for new ideas, ones that maybe either they thought about but did not know how the players would feel about it or ones that they never thought about before. There are many changes in the game now that have come from the suggestion of the fans, paragon levels anyone.

11/07/2012 09:47 AMPosted by Fuha
Also you always expect a CM to post in your threads. I guess you expect him to say I will be taking this to the devs and make them implement it pronto. Is this what you expect. Then have the devs sing your praises that you have such great ideas that they could've never came up with it.


There is a difference between what you wrote and what I'm asking, I feel as though you're making me sound much worse then I'm trying to.

CMs from my understanding do their jobs I never said they didn't, me and I'd like to think many other players would like "more" feedback because we think it doesn't come enough. I don't feel like I've asked for anything unreasonable.

Again the CM's job is to take our concerns to the devs.


On the other hand you claim to know their job and how well they do it. So what are you? besides a blue knight? are you a CM? Because if you are I'll let it go.


I do a good job of learning from others, I learned that link you quoted last from the CM in this thread, because I remember him basically saying just that. That is unless you are trying to say that I should not learn anything at all from anyone. Just learn it purely on my own by trial and error. Seeing everyone here on the forums as liars. Meaning if a CM came here and gave you his full job description I would have to see it as a lie. I would not know it is fact unless I would be a CM for Blizz.

I could actually cop that attitude, but then how could I learn anything at from so many brilliant scientists, researchers and others in the world. Yes ones that would tell you the truth on whatever subject you want to know. How could anyone learn about repairing cars, being a lawyer, doctor or any other profession if they had to learn it solely on their own.

What kind of feedback are you looking for a blue response to all of your threads and post. Maybe even more, maybe even a blue response to every thread and post on the forums, huh. Look you should know why the CM's do not post much on the forums. I should not have to tell you why.
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,029
View profile
Id just like to ask Vaeflare if he or someone has read the hundreds of post of lag since patch 1.05 on the technical forums. I took the time to even addres most of those posts on a single one. I asked every post i saw to please reply on my thread so there wasnt a bunch of threads going around. After about 3 weeks and hundreds of post, no technical issue forum manager has rise to help us out. We have explained that the only lag we recieve is from D3. Everyone plays any game without a problem, but when it comes to D3 after patch 1.05, some people have unbearable lag which makes ONLY D3 unplayable. Not ISP problem either as we have demostrated in the hundreds of threads. So i beg you Vaeflare can you pass the this msg to the techinal comitee or anything or even address it yourselve since after weeks of complaining no one has even comented that you guys are trying to solve this issue.

Sign,
A Blizzard Fan since the 90s


Right on, man. And their management is a joke, all they do is just for show. When it comes down responsibility to their customers they don't give a damn. I hope you can show me wrong Blizzard but I doubt it very much you can.


You do realize that anyone could say that what you do at your job is a joke it is all for show. That you and your company does not care about it's consumers. And people could give all kinds of evidence that would make it seem so. But when you look at the whole picture you would see otherwise.

Look Blizz does not have some magical wand that they can wave and all of the lag is instantly gone. They cannot wave that wand and fix all bugs in an instant. Find and destroy all bot programs, balance the classes, etc... They do not have such things.
Reply Quote
11/06/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Vaeflare
What we DO do


Umm...no.

A dollar for every time I hear people say that...
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
4125
Posts: 1,020
people who !@#$% on these forums are proof why society FAILS
Reply Quote


I stopped reading rite there! They SHOULD care, its our money being spent on crap game such as this 1!


They do care, they care about facts. Which would you be more likely to act on.

1) I hand you a chart that showed 60% of players who logged out of the game as a result of death did so after dieing against a pack that had a reflect damage affix among it. 80% Who did faced 2 such packs in a row.

2) I hand you a report of 10 Posts of people saying REFLECT DAMAGE SUCKS HAIRY FRENCH BULL DOG BALLS, and 6 Posts of people saying Reflect damage makes the game challenging, and another 12 posts of people calling each other cry babies.

The fact that you don't care enough to read the rest of this post.. Proves my point.


As more than 60% of the forum players seem to have no clue of the game mechanics and won't even bother adjusting their builds (as the game is 100% gearcheck) I would do NOTHING!
(L2P, noobs!)
Edited by Deichei#2255 on 11/7/2012 6:25 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/06/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Vaeflare
While indeed the forums (and social media in general) are intended for players to interact and chat with each other about whatever interests them, I whole-heartedly disagree that we don’t care about feedback. We do care, and feedback from the forums has absolutely influenced the direction of Diablo III.


And that was a fault! Big time!
Edited by Deichei#2255 on 11/7/2012 6:27 PM PST
Reply Quote
[quote]
You do realize that anyone could say that what you do at your job is a joke it is all for show. That you and your company does not care about it's consumers. And people could give all kinds of evidence that would make it seem so. But when you look at the whole picture you would see otherwise.

Look Blizz does not have some magical wand that they can wave and all of the lag is instantly gone. They cannot wave that wand and fix all bugs in an instant. Find and destroy all bot programs, balance the classes, etc... They do not have such things.


Dear ShadowAegis,

Defend Blizzard all you want. But after the 1.05 lag issue been shown up for weeks and hundreds of unanswered help requests in the support forum, that shows how much Blizzard *cares* about their customers. They don't acknowledge or simply response they will look into the problem at all. Affected customers are just being ignored.

I am trying not to be rude but please look at the big picture yourself and I stand by my statements. Show me I am wrong on this issue and I will gladly take back my words.
Edited by Axle#3442 on 11/8/2012 4:09 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,029
View profile
[quote]
You do realize that anyone could say that what you do at your job is a joke it is all for show. That you and your company does not care about it's consumers. And people could give all kinds of evidence that would make it seem so. But when you look at the whole picture you would see otherwise.

Look Blizz does not have some magical wand that they can wave and all of the lag is instantly gone. They cannot wave that wand and fix all bugs in an instant. Find and destroy all bot programs, balance the classes, etc... They do not have such things.


Dear ShadowAegis,

Defend Blizzard all you want. But after the 1.05 lag issue been shown up for weeks and hundreds of unanswered help requests in the support forum, that shows how much Blizzard *cares* about their customers. They don't acknowledge or simply response they will look into the problem at all. Affected customers are just being ignored.

I am trying not to be rude but please look at the big picture yourself and I stand by my statements. Show me I am wrong on this issue and I will gladly take back my words.


What I am saying is let their actions of fixing the lag be the response that you get. Just because players are reporting lag, does not mean it will be an instant fix. Also think about all of the times that Blizz has had the servers on maintenance of some kind or restarts. What do you think it could be for. It could be possible that they could be trying to fix the lag.

To me they do not have to personally recognize every care and concern on the forums. Their fixing the problem is far better than them coming on and telling us that they are aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. Also they might be a bit hesitant making a response.

Have you noticed how blue posts have been torn to shreds on the forums and been the starting point of a flame war. Even though the blue did not say anything out of line. All due to trolls with some agenda doing nothing but tearing down. I know that if I were a blue I would be hesitant in posting a reply, because I might get my head bit off just replying to an issue.

When players start to treat Blizz's employees that are truly doing their job and trying to help us get our voices heard by the dev team and the bug team. Then we might see them reply more often. Heck I rarely see any MVP post anymore. Why some of them have been chased off for the same reason.
Reply Quote


What I am saying is let their actions of fixing the lag be the response that you get. Just because players are reporting lag, does not mean it will be an instant fix. Also think about all of the times that Blizz has had the servers on maintenance of some kind or restarts. What do you think it could be for. It could be possible that they could be trying to fix the lag.

To me they do not have to personally recognize every care and concern on the forums. Their fixing the problem is far better than them coming on and telling us that they are aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. Also they might be a bit hesitant making a response.

Have you noticed how blue posts have been torn to shreds on the forums and been the starting point of a flame war. Even though the blue did not say anything out of line. All due to trolls with some agenda doing nothing but tearing down. I know that if I were a blue I would be hesitant in posting a reply, because I might get my head bit off just replying to an issue.


Oh right, you know them so well. "let their actions of fixing the lag be the response that you get.", yeah right, what is their action after weeks? or should I give them a year? Many people and I haven't played a decent game for weeks and I felt like being ripped off.

And FYI, it's their job to entertain their customer, even sometimes that means getting their heads bitten off by trolls. Just don't make up excuses for not doing their job right.

Sorry I am tired of them and I am calling it a night.
Edited by Axle#3442 on 11/8/2012 6:09 AM PST
Reply Quote
Though I dislike the direction the game has taken from release to 1.0.5 for the most part especially the Inferno-Heavy-nerfing I nevertheless acknowledge how much commitment all these FREE extra hours of development time really show!

They already got their money with the sale, so they care....the decisions itself might be debatable.
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,029
View profile


What I am saying is let their actions of fixing the lag be the response that you get. Just because players are reporting lag, does not mean it will be an instant fix. Also think about all of the times that Blizz has had the servers on maintenance of some kind or restarts. What do you think it could be for. It could be possible that they could be trying to fix the lag.

To me they do not have to personally recognize every care and concern on the forums. Their fixing the problem is far better than them coming on and telling us that they are aware of the problem and are trying to fix it. Also they might be a bit hesitant making a response.

Have you noticed how blue posts have been torn to shreds on the forums and been the starting point of a flame war. Even though the blue did not say anything out of line. All due to trolls with some agenda doing nothing but tearing down. I know that if I were a blue I would be hesitant in posting a reply, because I might get my head bit off just replying to an issue.


Oh right, you know them so well. "let their actions of fixing the lag be the response that you get.", yeah right, what is their action after weeks? or should I give them a year? Many people and I haven't played a decent game for weeks and I felt like being ripped off.

And FYI, it's their job to entertain their customer, even sometimes that means getting their heads bitten off by trolls. Just don't make up excuses for not doing their job right.

Sorry I am tired of them and I am calling it a night.


So everything is so cut and dry, super easy to fix in programming. To you Blizz has a magically wand that is so powerful that they can instantly fix everything with just a wave of the wand, huh. Some things are hard to fix in programming.

As far as lag I do not know if it is in their programming. Also it could mean that they have more players playing. So these last two updates could've got some players that left to return along with others that are new.

Meaning that it could be just a fix of upgrading the servers to handle more players. I am saying it could be anything from programming to the above. It might not be an easy fix to accomplish.
Reply Quote

So everything is so cut and dry, super easy to fix in programming. To you Blizz has a magically wand that is so powerful that they can instantly fix everything with just a wave of the wand, huh. Some things are hard to fix in programming.

As far as lag I do not know if it is in their programming. Also it could mean that they have more players playing. So these last two updates could've got some players that left to return along with others that are new.

Meaning that it could be just a fix of upgrading the servers to handle more players. I am saying it could be anything from programming to the above. It might not be an easy fix to accomplish.


You are like the Chinese said, 'A lantern that made of hide, no matter how hard you lit it and it still won't shine'.

Enough of puzzle. :)

I understand you that some bugs are just hard to get rid of. However, everything you have said are just speculations, all the 'could be' means nothing. The FACT is they ignored all the threads that asked for help on the issue for weeks! I, like many others, have not played a decent game since the patch. Everyday I log in to see if anything has improved and I give up in 5 minutes. And yet they keep ignoring our request for help, no acknowledgment, no response. Do you understand how it's like being us?

I see the quality in you, persistence is a good thing. I bet you could do a better job than the customer service of Blizzard.
Reply Quote
11/07/2012 09:28 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
If I want to play a game that is in development and I know about it I will keep up to date the moment that I hear about it. I believe that more players than you think did just that. They knew what they were getting when they bought D3.


Just a small reminder: some people have a thing called "life", where we need to work, go out, talk to things called "people", etc.

So no, I saw on the web they were selling D3, so I bought it. Didn't read or see anything about it before. Never would have expected it to be a cheap WoW. Expected it to be Diablo. And make no mistake, most people who bought it are NOT "game consumers" like you, my friend.

Many of the players were used to a gaming environment where we had freedom, where we were not slaves to a laggy server or crappy nerfs. I didn't even know what a "nerf" was before playing D3 :P
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,029
View profile
If I want to play a game that is in development and I know about it I will keep up to date the moment that I hear about it. I believe that more players than you think did just that. They knew what they were getting when they bought D3.


Just a small reminder: some people have a thing called "life", where we need to work, go out, talk to things called "people", etc.

So no, I saw on the web they were selling D3, so I bought it. Didn't read or see anything about it before. Never would have expected it to be a cheap WoW. Expected it to be Diablo. And make no mistake, most people who bought it are NOT "game consumers" like you, my friend.

Many of the players were used to a gaming environment where we had freedom, where we were not slaves to a laggy server or crappy nerfs. I didn't even know what a "nerf" was before playing D3 :P


So you think it took me 8 hours a day to keep up to date. Not at all, it only took me a few minutes. My daily thing to keep up to date on D3 was first visit diablofans.com. If there was any news there read it and watch any videos that they linked. The majority of the time spent there was probably at most (not including videos) about 30 minutes. Before the official website came out I would check mmochampion.com to see if they had anything new that was different than diablofans.com.

After the official site came out then I switched and went with only diablofans.com and the official website. I hardly ever spent more than an hour keeping up to date. And when it took more than an hour it was because I was watching videos or maybe watching a Blizzcon video. That gave me more than enough information on the game that I knew what I was getting into long before I purchased the game.

I did it because I know that like any other game in existence. No game is exactly like it was when it was first displayed to the public. I would not trust it to be a carbon copy of Diablo 2:LOD even if I did not keep up to date. Why you might ask, simple my dear Watson. Tyrael clued me in on it. When he said at the end of act 5 in D2 "This act will change your world forever -- with consequences even I cannot foresee. However, it is the only way to ensure mankind's survival."

Tyrael said it would be a world changing event, so classes would be way different than the classes we knew and grew to love. I knew that even the chance of the skill, attributes, skill trees if any would either be totally different or nonexistent. I expected something different, in fact totally different than what we knew in D2:LOD. D2 was nothing like Diablo the original. I know because I used a fireball swordsman for a warrior in that game. I had used gear to raise his magic beyond the cap of 50 in order to learn a decent level of fireball to pull it off. That was something that was fun to do.

Also do you have friends that also wanted to play D3 as well. Maybe ones that have a little more time than you do so they can keep you abreasted. Could you at least call your local game shop once in a while to learn what is new with D3 and what it would be like playing it.

Since there was no NDA with the beta did you have any friends in the beta that could've helped you keep up to date. Ignorance of a game that you want to play is no excuse in my book. You can find ways of keeping up to date. Ones that does not takes hours upon hours of time.

FYI at the time I was keeping up to date with D3 I was not the fastest reader in the world either. I only had a reading rate of about 150 words per minute. I did however raise it to somewhere around 350-400 words per minute with a book on speed reading.
Edited by ShadowAegis#1537 on 11/9/2012 5:47 AM PST
Reply Quote
After Mr Morhaime and Mr Wilson posted their respective letters on the forums, to me it had the reverse effect of making players feel they're not being listened to rather than the other way around.

To be fair though, there is a limit to what Blizz and listen to, implement, and still maintain creative vision. Likewise there is a threshold of what we can, and should suggest on the forums at any given time.

It's just that the more you hear the tired "you can't expect changes overnight" or "no game is released without first day problems" or similar by blues/greens, you get the feeling they're not listening and just playing for time.

That's why it's important to have trust. Forsake it once, and it can be difficult to regain.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]