Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

To make mp levels more viable in the long run there should be:

1. More Hellfire-like items to craft. As in a whole new class of items different from the regular legends or sets. Colored pink or something. lol
2. A special cow level-like area where only the best of the best of the best can survive. this level does not need any item to enter. It's open to all level 60 characters. The difficulty is like mp20 and can't be soloed in any way. drops are of the highest possible roll quality.

That's all I could think of now.
[quote]
But please GOD don't increase MF per MP level... no one wants more vendor trash rares to identify, it's getting super old, what you could do however is introduce something new that scales with MP for finding legendary items, instead of MF it would be LF (Legendary Find)


You do realize that higher MF make the rares have better quality and increases your chance to find legendary items right? Also I do like your Idea of Legendary find (no sarcasm), especially since it takes so long to kill stuff at higher MP levels so at a certain point you actually find less legendarys the way it is now.
11/15/2012 03:18 AMPosted by justhackitup
P.S. I'm sure that chart is slightly outdated, but you get the point.


No, it's not, and that's the problem.

Take a look at that chart - the vitality skyrockets near ten times faster than the bonuses, end result, from a pure efficiency point of view for farming, the higher MP levels just won't cut it.
if you make mp10 attractive, then you are just making mp10 mandatory.

all of you who think higher mp should be more "rewarding" are just delusional. mp10 is for the people with so much surplus dps (740k dps) that they slice through mp10 like butter.

so if you say mp10 should be more rewarding, while you eke out a meagre existence such that doing mp10 slow, gives you the same rewards as mp1 fast (ie: you make strict scaling), then the top 50-100 players in the world that can do mp10 (ie: unbuffed dps 400k-600k) like butter will be even earning more disproportionately.

you will basically see the 1% grow far far more richer than now, they will deflate the prices of everything you can possibly find and sell as a matter of sheer quantity. you may end up finding the only weapons salable are 1h 1100 dps with 800 loh, lifesteal , cdmg and socket. so tell me now how many of those you find so far since d3 release?

those of you who are NOT in the top 1%, regardless of what changes you make to mp, you will find whatever advantage you think you grant yourself, you grant to the top 1% disproportionately more.

wealth begets opportunity and you are in actual fact, just putting more wealth into the top 1%.

This.
Leave MP system as it is or let blizz decide from their statistics if they should change ANYTHING, players just can't see beyond the tip of their noses.
11/13/2012 11:01 PMPosted by KyKaH
You get more loot on higher mp. If you do mp5 as fast as mp1 you better do mp5. If your dps is not that good than you're not ready to "farm" that mp. Only a bunch of top-geared chars can "farm" mp10. That's simply a gear check. But the difference in "rewards" between mp5 and say mp8 is not that big as between mp0 and mp5, so probably the realistic and reasonable goal for a non-RMAH casual player would be "farming" mp5-mp6. If your average elite kill time is about 15 sec - than you're cool with current mp level.


I think this is about right. If you can do mp10 you will certainly not be farming mp0 you will probly do 5 or 6 and you will be getting a good mf bonus and some experience to make up for the difficulty. If you go higher mp then farming is less efficient but you still get the keyfarming/ ubers bonus to make that worthwhile as well.
In my opinion, mp levels should be first about giving us more challenge. And as it stands now, it is not more challenging, it is just more boring. Monsters have way too much hp for it to be any fun.

The way it should be imo:

- Increase monster resistances to elements up a notch above level 5 and give them some immunities on higher levels (up to 2?).

- Maybe mix affixes within a same pack on higher mp levels

- Decrease hp, this is definetly not the way to go

- Increase damage a bit

- Let the reward as it is, it should be more rewarding if the progression was faster by bringing hp down.

I think that immunities would make the game way more challenging as you play on higher monster levels. It would definetly bring more diversity to builds and this is what people wish for. Since you would need to vary the type of damage you deal in order to progress you would definetly wanna vary your build. For exemple, a barb build or monk build dealing only physical damage would not be able to deal with elites having physical resistance.

I hope more people agree about the idea of bringing immunities in the game. I know this was not wanted in the first place but this was before mp levels where implemented.

IMMUNITIES FTW
Reduce HP pools a lot, increase damage a lot.
Instead of MP giving 25% per level, it should be 50%. Diablo 2 was fun because everytime you killed a boss, you got unique/set items, THAT WAS FUN. Even if they're crap, it's still good to watch them drop.
On mp8+, allow ilvl 64 to start dropping.

Kthanks.

Check my profile, I'm paragon 100, I think I should have some leverage in this conversation.
Edited by Euphoreia#6673 on 11/15/2012 4:37 AM PST
11/14/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Yes but if you want us to challenge ourselfs more.. give us rewards for doing so.
in my eyes this is a pretty easy problem to solve
leave everything as it is, only change one thing
the likelyhood of getting higher rolls on affixes for all items increases as mp increases
this would apply to all items (yellow/legendary).

for example lets say a glove can roll 0-300 dex
mp0 - 0-300
mp1 - 20-300
mp2 - 40-300
mp3 - 60-300
mp4 - 80-300
mp5 - 100-300
...
mp10 - 200-300

so - yes - you could probably get more items in mp0 by farming like crazy - but they can roll anywhere from 0-300, whereas any glove that rolls dex in mp10 is guaranteed to be 200-300.

this would solve all problems because:

a) it doesnt "force" players into higher MP. even if you are low geared and you want to find better gear mp0 will still be just as viable as mp10. it is up to the player what odds they would like to play. would you like to find 10 gloves with a chance to roll 0-300 or 1 glove that is guaranteed to roll 200-300?
b) it means when a legendary drops in mp10 you know its going to be worth it. legendaries found in mp0 could just be as good as mp10 legendaries however its not as likely to be rolled high, it may roll like crap. also make it so if it is a legendary weapon it is more likely to roll a socket/crit roll than a legendary found in mp0.
c) it gives a reason/incentive to play mp10 (lesser drops but greater likelyhood of higher rolls and in the case of a weapon, a greater likelyhood of a socket/crit roll) as opposed to constantly farming mp0 (more drops, more legendaries but no certainty of higher rolls)
d) this makes both mp0 all the way to mp10 equally as rewarding, without making either the obvious choice for getting the best loot in the game and hence makes it possible for poorly geared players to godly geared players to take on any MP they like and know that they are all equally as good in terms of loot.

tldr: leave everything as it is for mp0-10.
mp0 - quantity of items is higher due to faster kill speed however rolls are not guaranteed to be as high
mp10 - quantity of items is obviously lower due to longer killing time however items are guaranteed higher rolls
the max rolls of mp0 and mp10 are the same so poor players also have a chance at getting the best loot in the game and no one feels "forced" into higher mp levels.

thoughts? @_@;;
Edited by IronBeast#3488 on 11/15/2012 4:47 AM PST
You don't want to force people to higher MP levels? WHY? It's normal, you start of playing normal difficulty, then nightmare, then hell, inferno, then you go higher MP0-10....

Just make higher MP levels more rewarding in terms of drops, say, you get more chance for legendary items or something.

Giving MF and GF bonus is nothing, not worth, not even 1%. Low MP levels will always be the best for farming gold/exp/items.

The worst mistake you did so far is to make RARE items more or less useless, I don't even pick them up anymore, its such a waste of time. To fix that, you should make RARE items MORE RARE(harder to find) and make them better, SIMPLE AS THAT.
@Sephirath: Are you familiar with the Law of Unintended Consequences? That's the essential problem with the MP system right now. Blizzard may not have intended to alter farming experience, but they did. If you look behind their rationale for not making MP10 the best level, you'll probably see something like this:

"We don't want to make any particular level better than the others."

In that sense--granting, I'm ascribing the reason; they didn't write that quote--the system has failed.
I agree that the reward should be bigger for higher mp. My suggetions are:

1. Give more exp bonus per level, you should not be able to make more exp/h doing a run on mp0-3. I can't say what % they need to be set at but this can easily be checked by farming exp for one hour on different levels.
2. Higher mf bonus, the 600%+ does not do a lot for you since you spend so much time killing stuff. Which should make being able to play mp10 more intresting for people, and that makes them want to get better gear so they can get better loot on the higher mp levels.
As it works right now you get way better loot on lower mps (atleast I do) as your killing stuff so much faster = higher chance of actually getting something worthwhile. Probably double it :)

If the reward is bigger on the higher mps that will motivate people to try and get better gear. And yea like many have said I would lower the hp bonus on exp levels and instead go higher on damage instead.

J
Edited by jovi#2972 on 11/15/2012 4:49 AM PST
11/14/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)

Much greater XP rewards would be a great motivation to play high MP. The effort put in and the XP are not where they should be. Also with the next patch can we please get XP from completing quest, achievements, and events?
you're not really looking at the big picture, and all of the current advice applies to people with BAD GEAR. Yes, even Alkaizer had bad gear when he leveled up in 1.04 compared to what is available now. There was recently a wizard posting a video with 750k, yes, 750k Damage melting mobs in mp10 about as fast as you probably run mp0.. please tell me how and why it would be in that guys interest to drop the mp down to 0 for ANY reason? Go on, i'll wait.

MP works better than you realize because its set up so the high-end gear actually CAN farm the higher MP levels efficiently, you simply DONT HAVE GOOD GEAR compared to what is out there. and neither do I, so i'm not mad that I can't farm high MP yet.

Look at it as something to look forward to. If mp10 is the highest content we're going to see until the expansion, why the hell would you want to rush through it now when that's possibly a year+ away?
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


The problem that exists is the same problem we had in D2.

People are just loading up MF gear and switching to EZ mode ALA MP0-1 and facerolling through act 3 via speed runs.

So to this end, people are being far more rewarded by playing low MP's. Personally, I like the challenge of high MP farming. But when I see people getting more legendaries in one mindless, effortless act 3 MP1 speed run than I get all day, I am forced to feel disillusioned.

Scale back iLvL 62-63 drops for low MP's. Scale the chances up as you raise you MP. Do so in moderation and what we have is low MP's can still get good loot while higher MP feel some tangible reward for challenging themselves.
So far for me, I haven't been able to match the exp or loot per hour that I get on MP0. It's really not even close for me. My difference between even MP0 and MP2 is very significant.

I'm sure there are gear levels where it's more efficient to bump it up a bit, but I'm certainly not there yet.....which is unfortunate because a ball lightning or two killing a pack of trash isn't very exciting.
you're not really looking at the big picture, and all of the current advice applies to people with BAD GEAR. Yes, even Alkaizer had bad gear when he leveled up in 1.04 compared to what is available now. There was recently a wizard posting a video with 750k, yes, 750k Damage melting mobs in mp10 about as fast as you probably run mp0.. please tell me how and why it would be in that guys interest to drop the mp down to 0 for ANY reason? Go on, i'll wait.


That's more of an anomaly than a DPS goal any reasonable person could achieve.

It is bad for the game when we set this standard of going EZ mode for more drops than harder modes. We should be concerned with how this affects the average player, not the top 50 in the world.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


The problem that exists is the same problem we had in D2.

People are just loading up MF gear and switching to EZ mode ALA MP0-1 and facerolling through act 3 via speed runs.

So to this end, people are being far more rewarded by playing low MP's. Personally, I like the challenge of high MP farming. But when I see people getting more legendaries in one mindless, effortless act 3 MP1 speed run than I get all day, I am forced to feel disillusioned.

Scale back iLvL 62-63 drops for low MP's. Scale the chances up as you raise you MP. Do so in moderation and what we have is low MP's can still get good loot while higher MP feel some tangible reward for challenging themselves.


This is basically like my suggestion as above except instead of changing the drop rate I suggested to increase the likelyhood of higher rolls on items found in higher MP. However I think increasing the drop rate for higher MP and/or nerfing the drop rates for lower MP isnt as good as increasing the rolls on items found in higher MP. This is because you dont want to have people feel like they are "forced" into higher MP, and increasing drop rates in higher MP will only mean the rich get richer while the poor will struggle to get any legendaries at all (this is assuming a poor players kill time on MP0 will be the same as a rich players kill time on MP10).

Also playing for hours on end in MP0-1 and having no legendaries come out at all will bore a lot of players to tears. Even if the stats are rolled poorly just hearing the sounds of a legendary fall will make most poor players want to continue in the hope they hit the jack pot and are lucky enough to get a well rolled legendary.

As per my suggestion even in MP0 legendaries drop at the same rate as MP10 but there is no guarantee as to how well they are rolled. We all know that a well rolled legendary is worth exponentially more than one that is rolled meh. This scales with the exponential increase of HP in MP10. However even poor players or players who dont like to have long overdrawn battles and would rather faceroll MP0 instead can still find these uber rolled legendaries in MP0 it just wont be as likely to roll as high stats - instead they will find a higher quantity of them.

In the end it balances out while maintaining player sanity. Nerfing rates for lower MP isnt the answer IMHO.
Edited by IronBeast#3488 on 11/15/2012 5:44 AM PST
i disagree. before MP i found a few legends but a ton of time playing just walking around in inferno. i can still walk around (with my new barb) at mp 5-6 with paragon only 9 and i've found 4 legends and 4 sets.
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