Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

Just because it bares repeating this, is why so many people are having issues with the monster power system.



Because the reward system does not currently scale to match the challenge / time invested, there is a disconnect between wanting to be challenged and feeling unrewarded, even penalized, for playing a more challenging level. This seems counter to good game design.


People simply just want to be equally rewarded for playing a level that isn't a complete faceroll for them. Leaving lower MP levels (sub MP 5) they way they are slightly boosting the rewards for higher MP will make it so those people who enjoy diablo 3 on a moderately-challenging MP won't be gimping themselves in terms of items and xp. People have done the tests, people should be running mp 0 - 3 for the best rewards, unless you're uber geared 300k dmg in which case you can bump it up to 4. Going higher than 5 is never worth it for gear and xp, you're forced to do lower MP for the best rewards, even if you can comfortably handle a higher MP and clear at a decent rate.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/15/2012 5:43 AM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)

I honestly feel like you guys are incapable of making something that players "feel like they absolutely don't need to do" to have a more enjoyable time playing D3. The problem is that the rewards for doing these "harder" things, are simply to good. You did and said the same thing with inferno difficulty. Except, that if you wanted better gear, we are forced to play on inferno. Inferno was supposed to be a challenge for players, not a place where you are required to go to progress your character.

Sure, you can set your own MP and its not "required" to have it set at all. But, if you want any chance whatsoever at obtaining upgrades you are required to have MP active. You have failed once again on that part.

If you wanted to give players a challenge while at the same time not requiring them to play a certain way, look at how you did the special events in D2. You weren't required to obtain torches and anni's to be reasonable at the game and it was 100% optional.
But, if you want any chance whatsoever at obtaining upgrades you are required to have MP active.


You're misinformed because MP 0 Act 3 all mobs are 63 and many people are doing mp 0 because it's so easy you can tailor your builds to get skills that focus on upping run speed and mobility for some of the best xp and item farming in the game.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/15/2012 5:47 AM PST
yes what is the point of item like stone of jordan which does damage to elites if the best place to farm is mp0? where everything is just one-shotted anyways
[quote]
But please GOD don't increase MF per MP level... no one wants more vendor trash rares to identify, it's getting super old, what you could do however is introduce something new that scales with MP for finding legendary items, instead of MF it would be LF (Legendary Find)


You do realize that higher MF make the rares have better quality and increases your chance to find legendary items right? Also I do like your Idea of Legendary find (no sarcasm), especially since it takes so long to kill stuff at higher MP levels so at a certain point you actually find less legendarys the way it is now.


Spizzlespee I am very open minded to this concept as it was first brought to my attention by my friend the other day. He swears up and down that the quality of the items that his friends who farm MP10 have much superior legendaries than those that farm legendaries at lower levels. I said that I was under the assumption that MP level merely affected the drop chances of that item. Now I would love to hear what other players who have found these godly legendaries have to say, as to what MP level they have found them on and if they agree that this is true.

I play anywhere between MP0 and MP2 comfortably and have found keys in these levels (yeah so I'm happy) and really crappy legendaries (not complaining as I don't have much mf on and my gear on my 3 main players need a major overhaul) , just that I don't have the experience to argue the topic above so I am wanting the opinion of people who farm all levels and have found legendaries in all these levels. If the roll of the legendary item is said to be better at MP10 then that of a lower MP level then it possibly would give incentive for people to play a higher MP level. I do read the forum quite regularily and people swear up and down they find godly legendaries on MP0 so .......inquriing minds want to know.
Edited by Jenilyn#1458 on 11/15/2012 6:06 AM PST
11/14/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


As Grimiku's post above explains MP is not mandatory. It is just an extra feature if you want to be challenged by mobs and if by that your farming takes longer then too bad. I for once enjoy it. STOP complaining.
I can't believe with all the talk Blizzard is having that farming is about efficiency that the solution is exactly that.

Just make all MP levels equate to the same farming efficiency
i.e.
25% mf = 50% hp
50% mf = 100% hp
75% mf = 150% hp
etc etc.
(these are just arbitrary numbers)

In this way, no one feels forced to do higher MP levels, because every level has the exact same efficiency.

Problem solved.
As of the numbers now, MP 8 / 9 / 10 are approximately 3 times more inefficient as MP 3 and 4
MP5 and higher should make all of inferno drop items like they would in Act3/4. If i rememebr correctly doing mp1+ in act3 will still nett you more ilvl 63 items compared to act1/2 right?
I'm playing on MP3-4 and of course the drop rate is higher.If I can farm on mp4 than why should i play on lower lvl....recently i managed to arrange the RMAH but the good things are really expensive so if u want good gear then u should spend lot of money....lot of money for an eletric impulse:) i rather buy some food
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


I think all of this makes sense of course, but my one overriding question is this - Why make the keywardens have virtually zero chance to drop keys in MP0? I think the scaling on key drops from MP0-MP10 needs tweaking at the very least.

If you don't believe that players are required to do higher MP levels, then why not make access to those keys even across all levels?
I'm able to farm MP 4-5 by myself with zero probelms, and relatively quickly. I get significantly better drops in 4-5 vs. 1-3. However, it does boil down to build/gear. I have a somewhat dps build (however no where near the 200k people), so I am able to mow through mobs with little or no issues at those MP's. I also stack a lot of xp boosting (hellfire + high level gem) because i've been concentrating on raising paragon vs. farming keys (which is boring by yourself).

I can survive in up to MP 10 but it takes way too damn long to kill anything to make it worth the limited time I have. In other words, my personal opportunity cost + kill efficiency are much higher at middle MP levels vs. low/high.
Here's my problem with MP in general:

I run in Act III using the quest Seigebreaker. I port out to Rassik Crossing. Clear up to Seigebreaker and check for the Underbridge. Then I backtrack through the rest of the bridge. Check for a rare in Bridge Stores. Continue backtracking through the bridge. Clear Fields of Slaughter (mostly) looking for the Caverns of Frost. Clear Caverns of Frost entirely, both levels. Port back to Bastion's Keep and run outside to the Barracks/Fortefied Bunker, clear both levels. Then I port to Seigebreaker and kill him.

By myself, on MP 4 which is all I feel safe doing (even though I still die too much for my liking), it takes about an hour. When I run with my husband on MP 5 (he's a WW Barb), we can clear it in about half an hour, and I don't die nearly as much.

We did this several times over last weekend. Probably six or seven runs total. I found absolutely no gear worth selling. I found one ring that I kept that isn't really even that good because I sacrificed a lot of LoH for the crit damage and crit chance on it. I'm not even sure I want to keep it, I might just try to sell it, but I doubt it will sell because nothing I post on the AH sells anymore.

That's what I'm irritated with in regards to MP. In general, I almost don't feel like it's worth using because I don't get any reward out of it besides experience. And the grind that is Paragon leveling is not rewarding enough either simply because the amount of time required to level it is fairly intense (especially if you're just a casual player that might not be using the best gear and the best farming route to bring in the Exp).

TL;DR: MP feels unrewarding for the amount of time invested at a challenging level. I might as well play on MP1 and just not care about loot.
Ultimately you can get higher MF in higher MP levels (> 400), so if it's all about farming for you, then being able to run around one-shotting enemies in MP3 or 4 should be an eventual goal for the MP1-farmers.

I think pack density is a good idea for MP, but what about just monster density. As a WD, I can't quite ever get more than 100-kill streaks. Endless hordes would open up other areas of the game to me than act 3, which unfortunately is still op for farming gear/levels.

I think keys and organs should be able to be combined/crafted 3 --> 1 (random) of the other two. I have so many spine.
Edited by Giggsy#1813 on 11/15/2012 6:42 AM PST
I think there should be an uber event like the Jar of Souls but it lasts for 10 minutes with tougher mobs ;)

That would be awesome.
Posts: 44
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


I got one idea. MF and GF should get higher the lower the MP you play at. (but not MP0) But there is one thing: the stats on gear that drops on low MP should be exactly as they are now, very diverse and random. But the stats on gear that drops on high MP should be more like the ones everybody would like to get on their gear the higher the MP u play at.
Think about it: People at can play on high MP don't really need upgrades, unless it's something tremendously good. Even at a low change of rare drops, when something does drop they should b satisfied.
But people that can't help but play on low MP will want to farm gear. Why not let them? If the RNG are as fair as they should be, why not let the little guys get rare drops moar frequently so that they can finally get upgrades without having to rely on the AH and the RMAH? (to buy expensive stuff they can't afford, that is)

Now, I dont have to explain what are the stats ppl want on their pieces of gear, right?
Edited by TidalSnake#1424 on 11/15/2012 6:56 AM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


What I would want to change is to make the higher MP drop key and organ more often. The mobs is getting harder to kill but the drop rate for those said item do not increase. The Hellfire Ring is account bound so I don't see any problem with people having 10 or even 100 of it. Each player can create 10 character, and each character has 3 follower. That make 40 character can equip the Hellfire Ring.
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MP was made for people who wanted a challange.
I can use me farming build (dropping Overpower for Sprint - Marathon) and farm MP3 nearly as fast as MP0 in Act 3 when I'm loot/XP farming.

Key Farming, I run MP5 or 6 depending on my environment (if I'm focused, I'll run 6, if I'm multi-tasking, I run 5).

Uber runs with friends, anywhere from 6-9 depending on the group. Usually 8 though which is great in terms of speed and chances to get organs. We can run all three portals and go after the Keywarden without refreshing our stack which is a decent measure of effectiveness when combined with the % for organ drop.
11/15/2012 06:56 AMPosted by WitchDoctor
MP was made for people who wanted a challange.


And better MF...
And better Drop ilvls...
And better GF...

You simplification does not stand...it's a little more than that. If I got same rewards for harder critters I would tell you to shove it and continue playing MP0. It's more than the challenge...it's the rewards...
I don't follow any of these posts, I farm MP5-6 and do it quickly and the drops are great. Legendaries drop probably once every hour and the rares are usually pretty good. Derp. Not to mention the gold, about 125k every key run. Checked all these people's DPS, No wonder you feel MP0 more rewarding than higher MP levels.
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