Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now



I don't see how you've noticed increased rewards on MP1/2 with your gear. In fact, I'd bet that if you think you found more legendaries on MP1/2, then it's a fluke. You're not even geared properly for efficient MP0 farming. You need 175k unbuffed dps to efficiently faceroll MP2, and you're not even close to that on your Demon Hunter. I'd actually recommend you go back down to MP0 and stay there until you get 150k dps.


Your elitism is getting the best of you. The aim of my post was to give blizz a casual player's opinion on a change that could've easily left me behind. If my aim was to faceroll this game, like I did in D2, I would both focus on only one character and play a hell of a lot more. I do neither, because I'm a single dad working 55hrs a week on top of college full time.

If I wanted advice, I would've asked, thanks.

The irony here is that, through playing casually, I have a lot more fun than the bulk of the forum whiners, regardless of my admittedly horrible gear. My gear is 99% drops, because I don't have the time or lack of sense (rmah) to get better stuff. In the end, you neither guilt me, nor shame me in any way since this game is not my life, have a nice day ;)


I wasn't guilty or shaming you. My post was to point out that the OP is correct in his analysis. If you have more fun playing on MP2, go nuts. It's not efficient though and you're rewards are not commensurate to the effort.
Your paper dps is worth about 30% of its value because of the downtime you waste in running around like a chicken with its head cut off

mine is inflated by at least 200% because i can use multiple skills at once, i.e. rend + ww

250k dps dhs make me laugh

of course you cant farm past mp4 if 90% of your time is spent running away

now imagine 200k dps with no need to move and the ability to hit 30 mobs constantly

yea, thats a barb.


11/15/2012 07:39 AMPosted by Scala
I don't see how you've noticed increased rewards on MP1/2 with your gear. In fact, I'd bet that if you think you found more legendaries on MP1/2, then it's a fluke. You're not even geared properly for efficient MP0 farming. You need 175k unbuffed dps to efficiently faceroll MP2, and you're not even close to that on your Demon Hunter. I'd actually recommend you go back down to MP0 and stay there until you get 150k dps.


I think you guys are a little bit off on your dps calculations for mp levels.

I have only 150k dps (nats legacy tho) and I usually run Act 3 on mp3, and complete my run with minimal deaths (if any) in 75 - 90 minutes. That's clearing the keeps, hitting stone fort for the key warden, then siegebreaker, the craters and towers, cydaea, and finally azmodan.

Can easily run on mp6 with minimal deaths as well, but that run takes almost 3 hours.
11/15/2012 07:54 AMPosted by Scala
That's too long. I can run arreat core, temple of the cursed level 1, temple of the damned 1-2, arreat crater level 2, keep depths 2-3, and skycrown battlements in like 14-16 minutes on mp1. In 75-90 minute timespan, I'm going to absolutely get more drops than you even though you're running mp3. Your run is NOT efficient.


I will try your run on mp1 and see how fast it is. I doubt you only spend 1.5 to 2 minutes in each level, not even including the time it takes to ID items, look at them, and sell them. That run will yield you at least 2 full bags, probably 3.

So you're saying, at your best, you can clear 8 levels in 12 minutes, thats one minute and 30 seconds average each area. I think your measurements are a bit off considering the arreat craters take at least 30 seconds to vault + tactical advantage through without even killing anything.

Your run is NOT believable =)
@Sephirath: Are you familiar with the Law of Unintended Consequences? That's the essential problem with the MP system right now. Blizzard may not have intended to alter farming experience, but they did. If you look behind their rationale for not making MP10 the best level, you'll probably see something like this:"We don't want to make any particular level better than the others."In that sense--granting, I'm ascribing the reason; they didn't write that quote--the system has failed.


Okay, I just looked it up and apparently it can be grouped into 3 rough groups.

A positive, unexpected benefit

A negative, unexpected detriment occurring in addition to the desired effect of the policy

A perverse effect contrary to what was originally intended

The only negative, unexpected detriment I see is that players are complaining about the system working. They created the MP level to provide a challenge and didn't want to provide the best rewards at the highest MP levels otherwise players would feel that they had to play at that level. Much like how players all play Act III because it provides the best environment for farming. Players not complaing that harder doesn't provide better rewards, which it actually does, but that it isn't efficient enough. Which in it of itself is weird because you want the hardest difficulty to be the most efficient difficulty which in theory would either make all the other difficulties either terrible in terms of efficiency or just not worth it.

A perverse effect does not occur because people are using the MP system and they are complaining that the only point of doing a harder MP is for the sake of doing a harder MP, WHICH IS WHAT BLIZZARD WANTED.

To me personally this falls under positive, unexpected benefit. Players are using MP and infact are not only using MP for the sake of a challenge. Players are also using it for farming, for those of you farming it at MP 0, either you're gear needs to improve or you need different skills or *and I don't like to say this because it makes me sound like a jerk* you need to improve. Gearing for farming MP1 is pretty gosh darn easy. Right now as far as using the AH goes, it should take under 5 mil to completely gear out any character to farm MP1 as efficiently as MP0.

To recap, positive because players are using the MP for additional purposes than its main intent, which is to create a challenge for players.

Not negative because the complaints actually validate what blizzard was aiming towards

Definately not perverse because people are using the system.

Again and I've stated this many times and this is the last time I will post in here because I've repeated myself quite a bit.

MP wasn't created for grinding/farming items. It's great if you want to use it for that, but that was not it's main intent.

Since it was not blizzard's goal to provide an alternative way to farm, if you think that the MP system is broken in terms of farming, then clearly they won't care. What players are complaing about is that the higher levels are not efficient for farming and thus don't want to do it. That is what Blizzard was aiming for.

To bring back my example.

My goal is to eat an entire pizza pie. I eat an entire pizza pie.

You think that the goal of eating any food is for the purposes of nutrition or enjoyment.

I tell you my goal was to eat the entire thing. You tell me why it's better to eat 2 slices because it provides the correct amount of nutrition. I tell you again my goal was to eat the whole pie. You then tell me eating 1 slice would provide more enjoyment. I tell you again my goal was to eat the whole pie.

Do you see how the points you bring up, whether they be right or wrong, do not address the point that I am bringing up so I don't need to actually respond to what you are saying other than restating my goals?

In fact, if you wanted to address the the goal that I had brought up, you'd mention that eating an entire pizza pie is unnecessary because it is an excess of nutrition and the last slice clearly does not provide enjoyment after so much consumption. I would then have to go in depth as to why I have set such a goal and maybe from there, you can convince me that my goal was not appropriate.

I can't tell if you realize this or not but I am not agreeing/disagreeing with you. My posts were trying to point out that if you want the system to change, you need to talk about the goal that blizzard has set place. Providing them a "solution" but ignoring their goals is not compelling in any way because you haven't shown them why their initial goal is incorrect.

Blizzard set out to create a system that would provide a challenge for the players but not penalize players for not taking part of the hardest part of the challenge. Discuss why that is flawed and you might see some actual discourse. Instead of a bunch of posts about how to fix something, that in blizzard's eyes are not broken.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i find better quality gear in higher MP levels. SO there is that reason to run them. IMO

-stab
Your paper dps is worth about 30% of its value because of the downtime you waste in running around like a chicken with its head cut off

mine is inflated by at least 200% because i can use multiple skills at once, i.e. rend + ww


I don't run around very much, my dps with gloom is enough to pretty much just stand and fire into a room, and with nats legacy, gloom can stay up infinitely. If i have to, I vault away with a quick click and continue firing with barely an interruption.

Plus the time i save moving between rooms with tactical advantage and vault more than makes up for any type of kiting needed.
To answer blue question.

The op is whining that they spend 10 minutes on a trash mob in higher mp levels vs 10 minutes to clear an entire map and a few e packs in mp0. And, you gain way more exp points in the latter and hardly anything in the former.

My suggestion, leave it alone. It takes better gear/build to farm higher mp more efficiently.

On another note. Provided its is merely the act alone that some one wants to change, you should not lose your valor. I am just saying.
Edited by Kush#1975 on 11/15/2012 8:11 AM PST
11/13/2012 09:52 PMPosted by Misery
This game isn't rewarding no matter where you go or what you do
I think MP10 should be off the charts stupid hard because of guaranteed keys and organs. They should double mob damage and increase mob HP by 50% of current levels on MP10. They should do this to knock a few people out of MP10 down to MP9, since no one plays MP9 at all.
No PvP = No reason to continue farming
The point of MP in the first place was to make the game harder for the 1337 wh1n3r5 who complained of making the game too easy. For them, the reward for playing higher MP levels is the challenge, not the XP or loot.

Working as intended, /thread
MP0: 10,000 exp
MP1: 11,000
MP2: 12,100
MP3: 13,310
MP4: 14,641
MP5: 16,106
MP6: 17,716
MP7: 19,488
MP8: 21,437
MP9: 23,581
MP10: 25,939


just so you know, that is almost the exact scale that currently exists


Really? I may be mistaken but I didn't think monsters gave more experience per level of monster power, but rather you only got a bonus to the stat that increased the amount received. If the way it works is that both monsters grant more exp and the player gets a bonus to his +exp % stat, then they just need to adjust the numbers.

The way I'd like it to work: a hellfire ring, 31% gem, and 5 stacks of nephalem are worth a lot more in mp10. Based on the numbers I used (10,000 base exp) That 141% gear + paragon bonus exp in mp0 would grant 24,100xp for a kill and 102,176xp in MP10 (301% gear + paragon + 160% bonus exp). My apologies if I had it wrong.
Edited by Turnbuckle#1273 on 11/15/2012 8:18 AM PST
I like MP1 for farming EXP/Legendaries, but I can also see that MP3-4 or maybe 5 being better.

It's all about how quickly you complete each run. The higher the MP level, the more MF you have, and the more EXP you get, depending on speed. Obviously there is a butter zone where you maximize your efforts.

That said, the game is unrewarding. You're leveling Paragon (a near-useless stat boost) and farming items to get more powerful to farm more EXP and gear. Why? Where is the end game? MP10? Gimme a break.


just so you know, that is almost the exact scale that currently exists


Really? I may be mistaken but I didn't think monsters gave more experience per level of monster power, but rather you only got a bonus to the stat that increased the amount received. If the way it works is that both monsters grant more exp and the player gets a bonus to his +exp % stat, then they just need to adjust the numbers.

The way I'd like it to work: a hellfire ring, 31% gem, and 5 stacks of nephalem are worth a lot more in mp10. Based on the numbers I used (10,000 base exp) That 141% gear + paragon bonus exp in mp0 would grant 24,100xp for a kill and 102,176xp in MP10 (301% gear + paragon + 160% bonus exp). My apologies if I had it wrong.


yes, i believe you are right. the +XP from MP levels is additive I think. I see now you meant multiplicative bonus for MP levels.
11/15/2012 08:07 AMPosted by Fivealive
That's too long. I can run arreat core, temple of the cursed level 1, temple of the damned 1-2, arreat crater level 2, keep depths 2-3, and skycrown battlements in like 14-16 minutes on mp1. In 75-90 minute timespan, I'm going to absolutely get more drops than you even though you're running mp3. Your run is NOT efficient.


I will try your run on mp1 and see how fast it is. I doubt you only spend 1.5 to 2 minutes in each level, not even including the time it takes to ID items, look at them, and sell them. That run will yield you at least 2 full bags, probably 3.

So you're saying, at your best, you can clear 8 levels in 12 minutes, thats one minute and 30 seconds average each area. I think your measurements are a bit off considering the arreat craters take at least 30 seconds to vault + tactical advantage through without even killing anything.

Your run is NOT believable =)


I don't want to be argumentive, but the run he mentioned is pretty standard so long as you don't get in the habit of doing a lot of backtracking or running out of your way to kill a lone tremor in a back room. The same run + stonefort doesn't even take me 20 minutes usually, and would be even faster if I opted not to wear leoric's signet.
Correct me if i am wrong, but i find better quality gear in higher MP levels. SO there is that reason to run them. IMO

-stab


This was my question that I had in response to what another poster had commented on. My friend swears up and down this is true. I simply am not equipped to farm at high MP levels so I can't argue this point one way or another, but I would like to open this up for other people who have found this to be true.
11/15/2012 08:24 AMPosted by Turnbuckle


I will try your run on mp1 and see how fast it is. I doubt you only spend 1.5 to 2 minutes in each level, not even including the time it takes to ID items, look at them, and sell them. That run will yield you at least 2 full bags, probably 3.

So you're saying, at your best, you can clear 8 levels in 12 minutes, thats one minute and 30 seconds average each area. I think your measurements are a bit off considering the arreat craters take at least 30 seconds to vault + tactical advantage through without even killing anything.

Your run is NOT believable =)


I don't want to be argumentive, but the run he mentioned is pretty standard so long as you don't get in the habit of doing a lot of backtracking or running out of your way to kill a lone tremor in a back room. The same run + stonefort doesn't even take me 20 minutes usually, and would be even faster if I opted not to wear leoric's signet.


I must of misunderstood then. I assumed he meant clear those areas, not just kill everything from entrance to exit and skip clearing the entire map. Or maybe i'm just slow at clearing? Most trash dies in one shot save for the dudes with upwards of a million hp. I vault around and run through an area very fast, but do explore the entire map in an area. Just doesn't seem too feasible to run through all of that in 14 minutes with everything being killed, looted, IDed and sold. But hey, who knows, I'll try it this evening.
I think it's as simple as making the xp reward equal across the mp levels. The added time it takes to kill mobs at higher levels does not give enough xp compared to slaughtering them at low ones. In a nutshell we should get roughly the same amount of xp for an hour spent playing whether that's in mp0 or mp5 (assuming you can actually kill mobs efficiently in mp5)


Really? I may be mistaken but I didn't think monsters gave more experience per level of monster power, but rather you only got a bonus to the stat that increased the amount received. If the way it works is that both monsters grant more exp and the player gets a bonus to his +exp % stat, then they just need to adjust the numbers.

The way I'd like it to work: a hellfire ring, 31% gem, and 5 stacks of nephalem are worth a lot more in mp10. Based on the numbers I used (10,000 base exp) That 141% gear + paragon bonus exp in mp0 would grant 24,100xp for a kill and 102,176xp in MP10 (301% gear + paragon + 160% bonus exp). My apologies if I had it wrong.


yes, i believe you are right. the +XP from MP levels is additive I think. I see now you meant multiplicative bonus for MP levels.


Ahh, yeah. There are severe diminishing returns on using a hellfire/signet/ruby on higher monster power because you're working from the same monster xp base as MP0. It's doubtful most players would wear cains or a signet in MP10, so there's a 50+% bonus loss right there. For efficiency, the maximum bonus experience most players will get in MP0 is around 191% (75 from nephalem, around 20% from signet, 30% from cain's set bonus, 35% from hellfire, and 31% from a radiant ruby). On MP10, the maximum bonus for efficiency is more likely to be 301% (no signet, no cain's). It's several times faster to kill with the 191% bonus, while you get barely more than 50% extra experience per kill on MP10.

TBH I wouldn't even mind it that much if the other bonuses were a lot more generous considering once you hit p lvl 100 the bonus experience won't mean squat. But right now it's more rewarding for gear and experience to play MP1 (ilvl 63 affixes!) than anything else IMO.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]