Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

ok, i know many that play Diablo don't like WoW but let me put it in these terms:

Let's roll forward 12 months and create a hypothetical scenario:

What if Tier14 content yielded the same loot as Tier16 content, but was easier and faster to clear and required lesser gear to complete. Where do you think the gaming populace would raid? Would this be good game design?

Welcome to Diablo 3 Monster Power with current scaling.
Edited by Emberos#1608 on 11/15/2012 12:47 PM PST
11/15/2012 12:26 PMPosted by whoopadeedoo
I am MP10 capable. I farm MP1 for exp and gear.


And it makes sense from a Farming stand point. And why not? Is the smart way to do it.
Is why I think the Pacing and Speed nature of MP needs tweeking.
If you are in MP0-3 you tend to go through it fast, but really just to increase the number of items you will get in the end...in order to increase better drop chances for good items as well.

Make say MP0-10 increase in the number or amount that drops per Monster kill, incrementally per level...MP0 drops what is currently typical, whereas MP10 would drop more like a resplendent chest, more items. Doesn't necessarily mean that all the drops will be uber, much like a Resplendent Chest even drops trash. Just means chances are greater due to sheer volume occurring...basically like doing an entire area at MP0 ...into that one mob on MP10.
It keeps being said and it keeps being ignored by half the people here, but just for the sake of reinforcement.

The people complaining about MP (most of them anyway) aren't complaining because they want more rewards than lower MP, they want the same rewards per time spent on a given MP. That way they get the challenge without sacrificing other aspects. It shouldn't be your reward is challenge or your reward is glittering prizes. The MP system should provide the same amount of items and XP while adding the challenge back in.
I agree that the higher the MP levels, the less efficient you get. Granted I'm not all about efficiency, but that's just a bad model.

I don't know why the only bonus to finding items is a 25% MF bonus per level. In all honestly, that amounts to very little given the extra time it takes to kill things. If your base chance of finding a legendary from a monster is 0.001%, if you're at mp10 with 600%MF, it's now 0.007%, but the monsters have 3400% more health.

What were they smoking? By those numbers, in order to have the same efficiency in mp10 as mp0 at 100k paper dps, you would need 3.4 million paper dps. So, outside of keys/organs, what's the point of mp10?

Then again, if they gave mp10 the best farming results, everyone would be crying that they can't do mp10 and "it's not fair", kind of like how act 3 was before 1.0.3.


Paper dps is just an average measure of your total damage output. It's a good as a guideline but doesn't describe actual output. For instance, if a barb uses HotA and finds elites that have molten, plague, electric, fire chains, and/or molten, that 100k dps is entirely wrong because every hit will be a crit for say 400k or higher. Skill choice and play style determine actual output, so saying MP10 is pointless may be true for you now, but not later. Another guy has a great link to a wizard named FrostBurn I believe doing MP10 like butter.

Another thing to remember is that it's called "endgame" for a reason.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Someone mentioned adding "Pick-up Radius" as a bonus to Paragon Leveling in a different thread. I think this is a great idea. However, if it was applied to increased MP levels instead it wouldn't make the "Proc" useless on equipment as MF will soon be. I think this would be a nice additional bonus to players who challenge themselves.
It keeps being said and it keeps being ignored by half the people here, but just for the sake of reinforcement.

The people complaining about MP (most of them anyway) aren't complaining because they want more rewards than lower MP, they want the same rewards per time spent on a given MP. That way they get the challenge without sacrificing other aspects. It shouldn't be your reward is challenge or your reward is glittering prizes. The MP system should provide the same amount of items and XP while adding the challenge back in.


Liked, Up voted, favorited. This is the issue right here, people who can handle higher MP's are forced to do the lower MP's if they want the best rewards, I'de rather do a higher MP, but it's just not worth my time. Just make it so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time playing on a MP that puts a bit of challenge into the game, I literally fall asleep doing my MP 2-3 speed clears but it's by far the fastest xp and items I can get.

Friend asks "hey lets group farm some MP 6 or 7" I think... yeah I guess we can, but I'm basically PUNISHING myself doing this rather than my speed clearing on mp 2-3. All I want is for them to be somewhat equal.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/15/2012 1:23 PM PST
It keeps being said and it keeps being ignored by half the people here, but just for the sake of reinforcement.

The people complaining about MP (most of them anyway) aren't complaining because they want more rewards than lower MP, they want the same rewards per time spent on a given MP. That way they get the challenge without sacrificing other aspects. It shouldn't be your reward is challenge or your reward is glittering prizes. The MP system should provide the same amount of items and XP while adding the challenge back in.


Liked, Up voted, favorited. This is the issue right here, people who can handle higher MP's are forced to do the lower MP's if they want the best rewards, I'de rather do a higher MP, but it's just not worth my time. Just make it so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time playing on a MP that puts a bit of challenge into the game, I literally fall asleep doing my MP 2-3 speed clears but it's by far the fastest xp and items I can get.

Friend asks "hey lets group farm some MP 6 or 7" I think... yeah I guess we can, but I'm basically PUNISHING myself doing this rather than my speed clearing on mp 2-3.


Which is why I don't think the better items should drop in higher MP.
It should just be more that drop per Mob/Monster....per level...which in turn increases chances further for better drops in RNG just by equalling the number of drops as would happen in an entire MP0 run. MP0 could stay current...MP10 drop amounts more like Resplendent Chests on each....be getting an entire MP0 area drop amount in 1 MP10 mob.
Then it isn't limited to best gear in MP10, which many may not get to because no good gear drops in the lower MP's (kinda like now if not speeding)...and players don't feel forced in any way, can play at whichever and get balanced chances.
Edited by xMoonDevilx#1540 on 11/15/2012 1:29 PM PST
You know what I want as a bonus for higher monster power? The option to eliminate seeing gray, white, and magical gear drops.

I'd also love an option for the cursor arrow to be made larger or somehow more noticeable with each level of monster power.

2% more movement speed per monster power

2 yard more pickup radius per monster power

2 more inventory slots available per monster power

Quality of life improvements are underrated.

In addition to the laundry list of things I said in an earlier post :P
Posts: 93
Most of you miss the difference between efficient and capable. mp10 is just only for the top 100 players in the world to farm, those who really do over 700k dps, while your crying how your small 150k dps makes you inefficient. You obviously just need better gear. I can farm mp 2 as fast as mp0, with maybe 5 seconds more per mob, so really it doesnt slow me down.
I think the fact that people prefer the lower MP levels for farming and the higher for ubers/keys means it's.....working as intended. I play on MP6 and do keys/MFing all together. But thinking about it, I should probably split that up and do mp0-1 for MFing and mp6 for keys.

Since I have a need for multiple MP levels makes me think that they were very successful in their implementation.
90 Night Elf Warrior
8195
Posts: 202
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)

I appreciate your view on what monster power should be. The issue is not that there isn't a special incentive to go to higher monster powers, its that you actually LOSE efficiency by doing so (past mp3 with an insane amount of dps you're still lowering your experience and legendaries per hour with each monster power you go up. It should be the case that, given the player is appropriately geared for the specific monster power, the rate of farming exp/gear should be approximately the same.

For example, someone with 70k dps should farm mp0 at about the same rate (in xp/loot gain) as someone with 300k dps in mp10 would. As it stands, that player with monstrous dps would still have to drop down to mp3 to farm at the same efficiency. The fix is simple, just needs some attention to detail to make sure the math keeps all mp levels approximately even. The health of mobs should be slightly reduced (per MP), the damage of mobs should be slightly higher, and the exp, MF, and GF gained should be drastically increased. Again, the exact numbers will have to be found out by you guys, but I hope you manage to balance it out and continue to improve D3 to the point where so many people won't consider it a failure, and hopefully bring more people back.

P.S. PLEASE make PvP good, thorough, balanced, and fun. The future of this game hinges on how PvP is on release, and you have lots of time to work on it.
the reward is not worth it

i mean even at mp3 i get decent key drop .... i mean MF increase is bull!@#$ i played from a range from mp1 to mp7 and i didnt see any difference in drops...
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


The only thing they need to do is tweak the bonuses for the higher MP's...

The bonus XP needs to be much much higher for each difficulty. Scale it with what you think a class should have in terms of dps for each difficulty.

Lets say at MP5 you basically NEED 100k dps to do it as effective as MP0 with 100k dps.. which means you would need to bump the Bonus XP by XX% to bring it in line. Possibly also bumping the chance for bonus items to the point that it would be worth it for that 100k dps character to do MP5.

Basically all MP levels need to have their Bonus XP and Item % boosted according what what blizzard feels is the sweetspot for dps in each Power level.
MP example: (not real numbers, just example)

MP 0 = Mob/Monster kill drops 2-5 gear items, gold, jewel, trash etc at random.
Can be done quickly if capable of higher MP levels for fast, efficient farming.
Chances increase for great items due to adding amount of dropped items.

MP 10 = Mob/Monster kills drop 10-12 items, gold, jewel, trash etc at random.
Can be done if geared capable for it, challenging, takes longer but balances out on efficiency due to getting larger amount of drops per Monster mob, which already increases RNG chances and rates, thus possibilities of great items.

Can choose any that floats your build or boat. Know you can go fast if you want but have to do several, or go more challenging and get at least same amount per kills as if on Lowest MP.

No forced feeling. No necessity. Challenging as one wants or capable. Rewarding as per level, and efficient all the same regardless.
Edited by xMoonDevilx#1540 on 11/15/2012 1:59 PM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Yea, I get it. You want to force players into lower MP levels.


Yea, I get it. You want to force players into lower MP levels.


The better gear you get, the easier the monsters become. Its there for people that want a challenge. Dont like it, then stick to the lower levels, because obviously you are not ready for the higher MP levels, even though you obviously should be able to handle the higher MPs easily.
Edited by HenVorsh#1296 on 11/15/2012 2:29 PM PST
The way to solve MP "fun" is the same to fix loot, make MF affect the ROLLS on the stats you get, the hight your MF the higher the minimum of the stats your roll, wich give you more chance of getting a good item, thus making magic find have a meaning...
MP is fine.
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