Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


EASY:

increase the bonus per MP lvl from (what is it, 20%? 25%? or something) to 40%
MP2-3, item level is never lower than 58
MP4-5, item level is never lower than 59
MP5-7, item level is never lower than 60
MP8-9, item level is never lower than 61
MP10, item level is ever lower than 62
after MP5 packs double rare drop with a 5 stack instead of single.
MP10 packs triple yellow drop w/ 5 stack

I would probably scale back mob HP a bit too. even with these changes ive outlined i probably would still stay in lower MP level.
for most people right now MP0-3 is the "best" way to level and farm legendary items, but for those at 200K+ damage mp 4-6 is good at 300K+ 6-8 is fine, once we are all running around 3 years from now with 500K damage and 2M EPH we will all be farming MP10 dont worry its a system made for the really long term.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Sadly I don't think blizzard understand the issue from that reply...
kind of sad as it pretty obvious...

I love MP4 to MP6, I can clear it without dying or really rarely dying...
But the MF and XP is so badly scaled that it more efficient to play in the boring MP0 mode to get XP and legendary.

I wish I could say: "I can do MP0 or MP4, both will give me about the same XP in 1h of game play."

The first lv100 player did MP0 run over and over and over...
I want to be able to take the same amount of game play as him but play in MP5 and reach lv100 in the same amount of gameplay...

Why are we being penalized for doing MP5?

IF you still don't understand, then please let me make it more obvious to you.
Keep MP0 the way it is.
All bonus for MP1 to MP10 reduce the bonus of 90%.

There you go, the famous quote you said is still valid.
You will get XP and MF bonus for playing MP10.
You kill 1 monster and get more XP and MF on that kill then MP0

I wish I made it clear enough that your message make no sense.
We are claiming that the bonus isn't higher enough and isn't scaling with the monster power.
You guy are smart... Figure out the right value to scale it correctly.

Do an alkaiser run in act 3 in MP0, MP1, MP2... MP10 with the build of your choice.
Compare the time it took and use that as factor for the XP gained.
If it take 2h to clear it in MP10 and 10 minutes in MP0, then make that you get 12 times more xp in MP10 then MP0 thus 1,200% more xp instead of the stupid 160%

If people can clear higher MP faster then your estimate, then they can get more XP on higher MP then lower MP. But noob player can still do MP0 just don't force people to do MP0 because you can't scale the reward correctly.
Or lower the monster HP if you don't want to raise the reward.
Just make a better equilibrium
11/16/2012 12:41 AMPosted by Kalthun
for most people right now MP0-3 is the "best" way to level and farm legendary items, but for those at 200K+ damage mp 4-6 is good at 300K+ 6-8 is fine, once we are all running around 3 years from now with 500K damage and 2M EPH we will all be farming MP10 dont worry its a system made for the really long term.


I really enjoy MP5 even MP3
But i get way more xp in MP0...
instead of killing elite in 5 minutes, i kill them in 15s...

So I should play a boring MP0 and get more drop and xp...
Only an idiot would play on higher MP as it not rewarding.

The lowest MP you should play is the one that you can 1 shot everything.

You didn't tackle the issue, look at your XP value and check your xp gained in 1h.
Do a run in mp0 and another in mp3 or mp5. Yes you can clear it, but it not rewarding unless you can 1 hit kill it like it a joke.

Is the new diablo a version that we have to play in a mode where we 1 hit kill stuff for it to be rewarding?
We can only play in MP3 when we 1 hit kill it, while we could play in MP6 and not 1 hit kill, but still kill everything, but it take to long, so it not rewarding...
The question at hand is that the XP isn't scaled correctly on MP level
Edited by Arden#1669 on 11/16/2012 1:00 AM PST
If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards.


See, this is the problem. MP7 or 8 isn't anyone's "sweet spot." And you don't want to make players feel like they need to play at a higher level? I, and tons of other people, feel like we absolutely need to play at MP 0. We don't want to, but that is where the "best rewards" are.

Blizz just seems completely clueless about how broken their system is, despite tons of people trying to tell them it is. Surely Blizz can at least look at what MP levels people are playing, and look at their gear, and figure out that maybe their system isn't working the way they want it to?


+1 exactly my point of view.
GM should just lower all the reward from MP1 to MP10 of 90% least.
Then GM should come out and say Hey, you can play in MP10 you get a better reward then playing in MP9 or MP10 per monster kill.

This is an exaggeration, but it to show you that because you get a better reward doesn't mean it well scaled, and the issue at hand is that the XP reward isn't well scaled.
We are forced to play in lower MP level then the actual MP level we can play in, to get better reward and XP.
Fix the scaling of XP and MF per monster power.
Imagine those that have the best gear in the world of D3 and play in mp2 or mp3 because it the monster power they can 1 shot everything. They could play in mp6-7 but hey, blizz decided to give them crappy xp reward over time.
Guys, the problem with MP isn't about key farming. We all know it's better to key farm at higher MP's. The issue is that MP is not only for key farming. That's why they give you bonus to MF/GF/XP and % extra item to drop with each MP.

The issue is that gearing for higher MP's is a complete waste of time. You always gain more xp and loot per hour at the lower MP's because the XP bonus and rewards do not scale appropriately with monster HP with each Monster Power. Monster Power 10 for example will NEVER be a good place to farm.

They need to reward players for doing more challenging (and significantly longer runs) with way more XP and rewards. Seriously, you should be gaining more XP per hour with each successive MP level, not setting it to MP0 till Paragon 100.

The system had good ideas but was very poorly implemented. It's as if the dev team is always so scared of handing out items and rewards to players so they do it in peace meal format to try and not over compensate. Result is the backwards system we have now.

It needs a fix.


+1
I played in MP5-MP6 mode each night for a week, just an hour or 2...
Then my friend is lv30 while i'm lv15 now...
Then I see this alkaiser run...
then I start looking into the xp bonus and realize I was getting screwed over entirely...
Now I do MP0 run, i can really see my xp gain improvement... but I lost interest in the game...

It way to easy, there no challenge... and why would I go back to mp5...
I switched all my set to have 300MF and my res to all and dps are way lower then before...
I can clear mp0 as if it was a joke, 30k hp, 200 res to all.
Now I have Max MF and do MP0 for XP run while getting way more legendary...
but everything die so fast... I really lost the flame I had that used to tell me this game is fun.
In MP5-MP6 I could tank enemy, I could feel their damage, it was fun...
jut not rewarding at all...

It took me a long time to open my eye...
i'll take a break again from d3 will be back at the next update, guess they aren't done tweaking. Right now I feel I can play Hardcore and reach paragon lv100 without any risk.
even with the new MP system, does anyone feel that the game is still a bit boring? sure there is a reward for killing the uber bosses but even the hellfire ring isn't really what i hoped it to be.. call it crazy but i hope we can really forge our own hellfire ring (ie choose what stats it should have) than just rely on the randomization.

thoughts anyone?
To expect more of this game is inevitable, in turn, creating a diverse roleplay scenario. I guess my opinion on MP just remains that any diversity only provides more chances in general. If it is Legendary's you seek, I found 5 today alone, including Vile Wards PCed at over 500 Mil. (In auction for 750 buyout) I did that on MP 2, confirming that, I guess it just doesn't matter. But then again, you need to consider the fact that MP comes along with better quality items. Not just better chances.

After doing research, I'm Paragon 6 after less than after week of making my first and only account. Went through Inferno act2-4 today on MP 2 in 6 hours. I have gone the DH route for Key farming, because Hell Fire Rings are Teh UBER! Next I start a Barbarian, yes, a Barbarian. I am Demon Hunter!!!!!!

Morale of this rant, MP=Keys=Machines=Making Rings of Doom baby. Better quality items over qicker firing/starting noobs. That is a recipe for money on everyone's behalf. Time is Money, this game is Honey.
+1 to OP
players these days are so greedy.. quit pls =)
When drop rates and quality of drops sucks.. u all whine, when it gets too easy.. u all ask for mp10 to gives EVEN BETTER.. c'mon.. do u have a pea brain or what?

1 day blizzard release pvp.. u gonna goes.. HEY I CANT OWN THOSE PLAYERS.. BLIZZARD !! YOU SHOULD MAKE MOB DROP EQPS EVERY 10 MOBS THAT I SLAY.. so that to accomodate my weakness.. lols, sometimes i really lol in front of my monitor thinking why has the players these days became like this or its just the new gen players having everything from the start
I usually farm mp9-10 for legends and I agree with some, not all, that the reward aren't that great. I do find legendary set but even at para 86, with 590-600 MF, stats are horrible to the point it feel like I'm wasting my time. On a positive note, I really like the challenge, it felt like diablo3 before the ASI nerf and that's how inferno should've been.

I agree with t0astp0tat0, some people are better at complaining and crying than actually playing the game. Save yourself sometime and just quit.

Get good or stay bad
what is everyone screaming about? Magic find still works? with the way rng works u do have a chance for good items to drop at mp0 but a low chance, for me i find better items in mp6+ but then again i don't have all day to farm/grind...

if you can farm all day long and have no life then statically mp0 is better lol!! but then why would u want to do that? just think about it this way, magic find will still will always give u a better chance of finding better rolled items.. if you feel ur luckier then the average bear then cut sick in mp0 it's your time and life to do as u like
Edited by lowfi#1433 on 11/16/2012 2:49 AM PST
Reading through the replies, I would like to comment that

1) The nature of Monster Power challenge makes it easy to mathematically calculate how much harder things will be in differing levels (known factors for Health bonuses, damage bonuses, etc.)

2) The nature of Monster Power benefits makes it easy to mathematically calculate how much more/less you will get per unit time (known bonuses for MF/GF/XP, etc.)

3) Since everything about Monster Power is simple mathematical calculation it is very easy for any player to precisely determine where they will get the best rewards for their time. As it turns out, there is a single Monster Power level which is best for XP, magic find, and gold find. This is a simple calculation which anyone can perform.

---

My suggestion would be to make the nature of the benefits/challenges of Monster Power to be something which is not easy to relate to each other in the form of an efficiency ratio. The reason is that as long as Monster Power rewards are scaled in this fashion, everyone will be able to determine precisely which Monster Power level is most efficient, and then play that one. Monster Power will never be about challenge as long as the relation of benefit to cost is a trivial calculation, instead Monster Power will be about efficiency.

So what is the alternative? The benefit and the the cost need to be not so easily compared to each other. Although they can still be balanced out where a player who plays a high MP with good gear gets approximately the same total benefit of a player who plays some low MP with moderate gear, the calculation of where your most efficient point is should be non-trivial. When the nature of the system is not begging to be viewed as an efficiency optimization problem, people will shift from viewing Monster Power as an efficiency question, and instead begin to see it as a challenge mechanism.

In light of the above, my suggestion is that the benefits of MP should be of a fundamentally different nature than MF/GF benefits (+XP still needs to be there to compensate for difference in kill speed). My own preference is that higher MP levels stop dropping lower quality loot. This raises the average quality of loot, but since you get less of it per unit time you are not any better off overall. It is crucial that the perfect rolls and the best possible items are available on every MP level. The average loot quality of higher MP levels does not increase because the top gets better, the average loot quality of higher MP levels increases because the bottom gets better. Not only is this a rational benefit as I've just explained, but it also makes intuitive sense, because the bottom quality items could only ever be useful for poorly geared players in lower MP, never for a well geared player in a high MP. So stop the facade of dropping them in higher MP when their function is for players in lower MP. Everybody gets what they want, and nobody feels forced to play a higher MP level than they want to do.
even with the new MP system, does anyone feel that the game is still a bit boring? sure there is a reward for killing the uber bosses but even the hellfire ring isn't really what i hoped it to be.. call it crazy but i hope we can really forge our own hellfire ring (ie choose what stats it should have) than just rely on the randomization.

thoughts anyone?


naw you dont wanna do that cause then people will stop playing ubers cause it will be too easy to get a good roll and then MP really does become obsolete.

They just need more things like the ubers, multiple activities that gave a reason to play the high MPs cause keyfarming is the only real benefit of high MP.

So give us more ''uber like'' activities that benefit greatly from MP
Edited by heyr8kb#1349 on 11/16/2012 2:58 AM PST

if you can farm all day long and have no life then statically mp0 is better lol!! but then why would u want to do that? just think about it this way, magic find will still will always give u a better chance of finding better rolled items.. if you feel ur luckier then the average bear then cut sick in mp0 it's your time and life to do as u like


but I can do MP0 in almost full MF gear. But then MP4+ I have to use my real gear and the MF% is always > in my full MF gear MP0 than MP4.

It doesnt scale well
I don't like where they went with the whole mp system they made the mosters just have more hp and no substantial increase in damage. MP10 is way to easy where is this challege I though the game would be at least as hard as original inferno when they first came out with the system. As of right now the whole mp system seems to just be a waste of time.
Posts: 27
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


You could scale the exp higher than the mf? Or make the elite density higher on higher mps?
Edited by RugDoc#1577 on 11/16/2012 4:01 AM PST
Posts: 12
You guys realise that in D2 it was the same. /players 1 or 2 was the most efficient level for items per hour, and only when you were highly geared.
The higher MP level you can speed clear means you will gain more paragon levels in the same amount of time, meaning you will spend more time in the long run with higher GF and MF. Add that into the bonus item %, and MP0 will never be more efficient than higher levels. At your gear level MP0 may be better for you. For me MP3 is the sweet spot, getting an easy 60ish mill xp and hour going halfass. You can argue other wise, but the intelligent people know your not worth the time to convince otherwise.
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