Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

in my experience, in key hunting.
mp6-7 drop rate is 5/4.
when using mp8-9, then things gets worse, drop rate 5/2.

whats happening? :(
in my experience, in key hunting.
mp6-7 drop rate is 5/4.
when using mp8-9, then things gets worse, drop rate 5/2.

whats happening? :(


What's happened is that you inverted your fractions.

Just kidding.

Your sample sizes (5 and 5) are too small to make any conclusions.
Edited by phoenixhawk#1125 on 11/16/2012 5:24 AM PST
What most people who have an issue with the current system want is for the rewards to scale with the challenge. The design right now is sort of backwards progression: People are gearing and leveling up to be able to do the easiest stuff faster. Until you get to a point where you can 1-shot everything quickly in MP0, MP1-3 might be competitive in terms of ROI. But once you get to a point where you can effortlessly glide through an act on MP0-2, there's very little incentive to ramp up the difficulty from there if your goal is to maximize your earnings and experience per time invested.

Seeing my roommate burn through paragon levels with his archon wizard on Monster Power 1(he's now plvl 93) while I was easily, but slowly, slaying enemies in MP8-10 and getting a small fraction of the experience and drops as him during the same time period was and is disheartening. Once I came to the realization that this was the case I decided to buy things like Zuni boots, witching hour, Leoric's signet, and Inna's radiance for my barbarian (also got a fantastic Andariel's from my roommate). That gear makes me more vulnerable in the higher monster power settings, but it makes doing mp0-1 a breeze. Not quite as fast as his archon, but pretty damned fast. But I got burned out real quick playing this way, yet when I go back to the higher monster power I feel the same level of disappointment I felt previously.

So with progression designed this way I'm finding myself losing excitement for the game. It sucks because I love this game and I know Blizzard has made a ton of improvements, but having to choose between being rewarded or being challenged is poor design. It just is, and I believe many who disagree are being (understandably) disingenuous - "understandably" because people who enjoy farming lower MP levels love the speed and rewards, but if the rewards in MP0-2 were as bad per unit of time invested as the higher levels I don't think they'd be very happy either. I mean, it's not a foreign concept: What's the point of playing inferno instead of normal difficulty if not for the challenge and rewards? What's the point in any game with farming and progression if staying at level 1 is the best way of making progress?
Edited by Turnbuckle#1273 on 11/16/2012 6:30 AM PST
11/14/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Grimiku
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”


This is true of Keys of destruction/terror/hate and hellfire ring components because the scaling actually rewards the higher difficulties, but it is absolutely false when it comes to farming/leveling as a whole. Lower MP levels are empirically better for legendarys and experience.

When you consider that the bonuses to experience and magic find from MP level are only about equal to the bonuses you can receive from equipment and paragon levels, it quickly becomes clear that if your goal is to maximize rewards, choosing a low MP level, wearing large amounts of MF/EXP, and maximizing kills gives the highest rate of return. Monster HP is multiplied by an immense amount when MP is increased, but the loot these monsters drop is comparatively tame. Even those capable of doing MP10 readily will often choose low MP levels for the above reasons.

If the goal was to have MP level intrinsically tied to hellfire rings and its components, this system is working fine - but if the system is to be anything but a novelty for the game at large, the rewards need to be dramatically retooled.

A few points to back up my argument:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7540457/

MP10 monster life = 35x base life. MP10 magic find = 250% (additive)

Assuming 300 base magic find and 75 from nephalem valor:

The magic find benefit from MP 10 is only an increase of 52.5% (Plus the chance for extra drops) - but 3500% monster health means you will take many times longer to kill. There is no possible way to come to a conclusion that running this is profitable compared to MP1, where you have 400% magic find but kill npcs 10x faster.
Just play the highest MP that lets you kill quickly and use the higher MP for gear checks as you get stronger.

Think about this. Blizzard has now given us 10 modes and people are still complaining. You no if they made MP 10 rewards so much better than the early modes people would be crying that those modes are too hard to play in and would be calling for a nerf.

What I have done is set a time limit to clear A3. Once I could clear A3 in under 20 mins on MP0 I moved to MP1. Then once I could clear A3 in 20 mins I moved to MP2. You get the picture. Sure I'll hit a wall every time I bump up but that's part of the fun.
Just play the highest MP that lets you kill quickly and use the higher MP for gear checks as you get stronger.

Think about this. Blizzard has now given us 10 modes and people are still complaining. You no if they made MP 10 rewards so much better than the early modes people would be crying that those modes are too hard to play in and would be calling for a nerf.

What I have done is set a time limit to clear A3. Once I could clear A3 in under 20 mins on MP0 I moved to MP1. Then once I could clear A3 in 20 mins I moved to MP2. You get the picture. Sure I'll hit a wall every time I bump up but that's part of the fun.


What's the point in having 10 difficulties when the game is optimized for the first 3 difficulties? With the absolute best equipment available, it would never be profitable to play higher than MP5. You can certainly play higher levels, but you punish yourself for doing so by getting less loot and less experience. Being able to use MP level as a benchmark from which to gauge yourself is great, but you should not be punished for choosing to play a more difficult mode.
11/16/2012 03:04 AMPosted by SWAV
I don't like where they went with the whole mp system they made the mosters just have more hp and no substantial increase in damage. MP10 is way to easy where is this challege I though the game would be at least as hard as original inferno when they first came out with the system. As of right now the whole mp system seems to just be a waste of time.


You can't increase the damage, because it's going to make ranged classes even more unviable at high mp levels than they already are.

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards.


The main point is area attacks in low MP from wizzard or dh rushing in mp1 or3 and running like crazy give better résult than good battle with barb -barb is an example- in mp6... So the barb will have to proceed the same, running like crazy with mobs dying in 1 second.

Finally the ratios (MF bonus & Item bonus) Maybe be updated a bit to encourage ppl doing something like an "hack and slash" more than a "run like crasy"
Edited by Pocket#2823 on 11/16/2012 7:56 AM PST
I'm not sure what I think about this issue. I do agree with Blizzard to some extent that players shouldn't feel obligated to farm high MP levels (thus having stingent gear checks) just to get good loot, because then you have a chicken-and-egg problem again like we did in 1.0.3 and before. This was NOT good for game.

On the other hand, I am sick of finding Dark Magus Shades over and over again. When I play for 3 hours on MP2 fairly efficiently (since I'm doing nearly 170k dps) and when the only legendary I find is a Dark Magus Shade, it gets really discouraging. Aren't my 66 paragon levels supposed to mean something? To be honest, it doesn't seem like MF has helped me all that much, as my Demon Hunter seems to find less stuff than everyone else is claiming. MP3+ is definitely not efficient for me, so I'm not really sure how to improve the situation other than rolling a barb I guess.
Edited by Scala#1900 on 11/16/2012 8:07 AM PST
What needs to be changed is the XP Blizzard. XP bonus should be = to 50% of the HP bonus. Meaning if Monsters HP increases by 500% the XP bonus should be 250%.
11/13/2012 11:01 PMPosted by KyKaH
You get more loot on higher mp. If you do mp5 as fast as mp1 you better do mp5. If your dps is not that good than you're not ready to "farm" that mp. Only a bunch of top-geared chars can "farm" mp10. That's simply a gear check. But the difference in "rewards" between mp5 and say mp8 is not that big as between mp0 and mp5, so probably the realistic and reasonable goal for a non-RMAH casual player would be "farming" mp5-mp6. If your average elite kill time is about 15 sec - than you're cool with current mp level.


Honestly, i dont think its really feasible to farm MP5 as fast as mp0 or mp1. I have found that with my barb, 80-100k unbuffed DPS is about the point when XP begins to level off in MP0. So, if you were look at HP increase of mobs in MP5 its something like 650%. So, i would need to do 6.5x (or 650%) more damage to be able to farm mp5 at the rate of mp0. My numbers would need to be something like 520k-650k(which is impossible) unbuffed DPS to farm MP5 at speeds of mp0 (using wirlwind that is). With that said, I do believe it might be possible to obtain the DPS needed to clear MP5 at speeds of mp0 or mp1 with the right build (pure crit hammer build comes to mind, but your not going to ever reach the rates as mp0-1 with wirlwind), however, i do believe at that point you would be sacrificing a great deal of defenses to obtain those higher DPS numbers and those reflect damage elites are going to eat you alive (i have seen crits close to the 2m mark with wotb going, so for the sake of arguement, we will say at about 350-400k unbuffed DPS those crits are around 8m)

Now, lets look at other classes. I cant really say much about monk, wizard or WD as i never really geared them out, but from a DH perspective, the barb is stronger in almost every possible way. 100k unbuffed DPS on a DH is comparable to around 40-50k unbuffed DPS on a barb as far as damage output goes when you get enough crit chance. This is not a cry me a river thing or a nerf the barb (please dont). If you dont think the barb is the most OP class, look at gear on the AH and you will see str gear is outragesly overpriced where as you can find the same gear with dex or int instead for dirt cheap)
100 Human Paladin
13655
Posts: 5
Still, increasing the chance of rare/ legendary items to drop, just create a chaos at AH. Now everyone pretty much drops legendary items, and this insane action is overflowing AH with low price items. It's just amazing to me how Blizzard seems to enjoy making its games "easier" just to attract more kids, and run away with the gamers that made you the big company that you are today.

Hope Blizzard get its priorities right, before all of the gamers that made this company the great success it is, give up on D3/ WoW.
@OP

Your Sustained True DPS just sucks so you can only farm at MP0 efficiently.

Show us how fast you kill a certain boss at a certain MP level and I'll tell you which MP level you can "farm".
Posts: 143
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


The simple solution is to leave all the stats alone ACCEPT the bonus item chance. Don't jack up the MF etc because that creates the need for farming at higher levels to feel like your getting better loot. If you increase the bonus item (MP5+ maybe even 2x bonus items) then people would still get generally the same chance at any level of getting a good item but the increase time it takes to farm MP5+ would be compensated by the extra item drops. Of course this would still leave low MP the best option for exp but that is the idea. Don't force players to choose an MP but if they want to kill fast for exp then they can go low and if they are geared and can handle MP5+ then they are rewarded with extra loot (not more MF) for the extra time spent killing.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”


This is true of Keys of destruction/terror/hate and hellfire ring components because the scaling actually rewards the higher difficulties, but it is absolutely false when it comes to farming/leveling as a whole. Lower MP levels are empirically better for legendarys and experience.

When you consider that the bonuses to experience and magic find from MP level are only about equal to the bonuses you can receive from equipment and paragon levels, it quickly becomes clear that if your goal is to maximize rewards, choosing a low MP level, wearing large amounts of MF/EXP, and maximizing kills gives the highest rate of return. Monster HP is multiplied by an immense amount when MP is increased, but the loot these monsters drop is comparatively tame. Even those capable of doing MP10 readily will often choose low MP levels for the above reasons.

If the goal was to have MP level intrinsically tied to hellfire rings and its components, this system is working fine - but if the system is to be anything but a novelty for the game at large, the rewards need to be dramatically retooled.

A few points to back up my argument:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/7540457/

MP10 monster life = 35x base life. MP10 magic find = 250% (additive)

Assuming 300 base magic find and 75 from nephalem valor:

The magic find benefit from MP 10 is only an increase of 52.5% (Plus the chance for extra drops) - but 3500% monster health means you will take many times longer to kill. There is no possible way to come to a conclusion that running this is profitable compared to MP1, where you have 400% magic find but kill npcs 10x faster.


This is it. Blizzard has seemed to have forgotten that you need a BALANCED risk/reward system. If the time it takes you to kill an MP1 monster is amplified 30 times in MP10 it should be THIRTY times the reward. Instead, we get a minute increase. Sure, MP was meant for a "challenge" but guess what. This is Diablo not a cheap thrill. There always has to be a balance for risk reward in Diablo series and they failed hard on this one.
Edited by Omnimesh#1127 on 11/16/2012 11:07 AM PST
Be careful what you wish for.

We could end up with a nerfed xp gain in lower mp's and the same xp gain in higher mp's. Would you feel better rewarded then ?
It does not matter what kind of gear you have, MP0 is the best... I have very good geared DH, and leveled it up from 22 to 87 in a week easily on MP0 only with rings etc. I tried MP1,2,3 to 10. XP-wise, and item-wise MP0 is best by far.
11/14/2012 04:19 PMPosted by strYker
Monster power is broken imo. Mobs health too high and damage too low. If I can survive the damage of a mp10 mob why should I have to sit there for 10mins spamming the same attack? So boring!! Upping dps another 10k - 20k does not make much difference, you have to have approx 300k dps if you want to make mp10 viable and even then it's still a grind.


Lol, Blue post directly above you and still not got it???
Mp10 is for the Challenge!!! Got it? There are some people who enjoy this challenge, it's for them.. Why don't you just go read the Bluepost again. I don't need to repeat it..

And when you survive Mp10-Elites with Ease, then you are simply overgeared on defense!

Blue made it very very clear here, and it's such a good system for all the kind of players. Me as Action Rpg Player who loves killspeed is perfectly satisfied with playing mp4 on highkillspeed. It stays an Action RPG where killspeed matters most, not difficulty! << That's the most important thing most people don't realise comming from WoW. lol.

And then there is the problem with the item-economy, if you only profit from mp10 then everyone MUST play it, and the game wouldn't be fun anymore -> SO CURRENTLY IT'S PERFECT A-RPG, why still complains???
Edited by ffFiend#2900 on 11/16/2012 11:33 AM PST
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