Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

Just fix the XP gain for MP4 compared to MP0
All class can clear up to MP4 pretty easily, but they gain more XP in mp0 then mp4
If you don't want to fix the high MP issue, at least fix the low one.

I don't want to farm MP0 ever again when i can clear mp6, but i realize that i get more xp/time in mp0 and seriously, this game make me want to bot as there no risk of dying in mp0. Highly repetitive, really dull and boring.
I want to play in mp4-mp6 but i want the XP gained to be rewarding enough at least for it to be almost similar to mp0 as an overtime result thus in 1h of bashing on monster in mp0 would give about the same in mp4.

Those butter monster in mp0 are way to boring to slice in half.
Just fix the XP gain for MP4 compared to MP0
All class can clear up to MP4 pretty easily, but they gain more XP in mp0 then mp4
If you don't want to fix the high MP issue, at least fix the low one.

I don't want to farm MP0 ever again when i can clear mp6, but i realize that i get more xp/time in mp0 and seriously, this game make me want to bot as there no risk of dying in mp0. Highly repetitive, really dull and boring.
I want to play in mp4-mp6 but i want the XP gained to be rewarding enough at least for it to be almost similar to mp0 as an overtime result thus in 1h of bashing on monster in mp0 would give about the same in mp4.

Those butter monster in mp0 are way to boring to slice in half.

11/16/2012 02:53 PMPosted by Arden
ust fix the XP gain for MP4 compared to MP0

Across all levels please. I farm MP6 for speed and efficiency when I could be doing MP10,
OMG all you cry babies need to S...T...F...U.... if they gave mp10 great rewards, they'd get crying from the forums that theyre pushing everyone into HAVING to do higher levels

MP8-10 was always about the challenge. GOOD GOD.

You people are never happy with anything!

go back to WOW with your prepubescent ad nauseum crying

"WHAAAH why should i not get the same rewards as someone who can do MP10?"
" I dont have the time to farm 24/7... WHAAAAAHH!"
Now you cry that mp10 doesnt offer any REAL rewards. good grief! if i was blizzard i would be like "screw you cry babies" and close up shop
Edited by DarkxLord#1413 on 11/16/2012 4:21 PM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)

In the PTR, I have opened a subject about this, and you just ignored...



In this article, I was not aware of MP0 that is the best... Still you did not even reconsider even many people opened lots of thread about this.

Rewardless Challenge is not a challenge. Just give me a reason to do MP10 after getting Hellfire Ring? actually just give a reason to do MP1 which is very easy too, but MP0 is the best XP farm place?

MP0 is so boring, but since it gives the most XP and items per hour, why would I bother doing higher MPs? For challenge? What challenge? I am not masochist to play a harder game which has no meaning at all. No Achievement, no reward, nothing?

I can easily do MP10 even I am DH, but why would I do that?
11/16/2012 02:41 PMPosted by SWAV

Keep the damage scaling as it is. Sure you may be able to take out mobs at mp10 even though it takes longer. The longer it takes the longer you have to make mistakes.
If it is a challenge you want then adjust your gear to get the level of challenge you like. It is easier to scale down your gear then it is to scale up your gear. It also gives you bragging rights saying you run MP10 with 'this' low level gear.

That give no incentive to improve or buy better gear. Getting worse gear is not what most players with good gear want.

That was not my point! The issue as (s)he stated was lack of challenge.

I think you are missing the point here. I dont recall anyone saying they should make it impossible to get a decent item unless your running high MP levels. Even though i strongly disagree with your reasoning, i can understand where your coming from. However, at the same time, shouldnt people be rewarded for their work and dedication (the RMAH, inflated economy, etc sorta tramples this arguement but still)?

If MP7+ is the place to farm efficiently then people will have to play MP7+. It is that simple. It will make such that all items you get at less then MP7 worthless. That is what more rewarding high MP level is going to achieve plain and simple.

And furthermore people are rewarded for their dedication, if they can farm MP3 or MP4 for lots of runs. And if people are putting in buckoo bucks on the RMAH, that is serious commitment, even if they have more money than brains and/or time, but their money is their way expressing their commitment.

People can put in their time and effort and at MP4 or less and be rewarded, how is that not reward for dedication? It is good that player can cheat and exploit the system at MP10 by corpse humping the thing and hope to come out ahead.

I apologize, i mistook what you said as an absolute statement (in the sense that you have a 0% chance of getting a jackpot item in MP0). realistically, you have the same chance of rolling a jackpot item in MP1 as you do in MP10 if the item is a legendary, but thats besides the point, and my intentions here are not to pick apart your arguement, so that is all i am going to say on that.
You make an excellent point about how people would exploit MP10 if farming mp10 was actually worth it (I hadnt considered this until you pointed it out). As it is, there are plenty of places for a DH to sit back and snipe elite packs from a place where they cant target you (not that i would blame most DH's, since they are at a serious disadvantage at mid-high MP levels, they have to farm someplace). Not to mention how easy it is to get NV stacks now with events and resplendent chests. And, to top it off, people completely ignoring elites and speed killing trash mobs.
My initial reason for keeping the bonuses where they are at was based on class inbalance. As it is, barbarians have a serious advantage in the farming department. They can rank faster and farm faster (in comparison to a DH, i havent geared all classes so i cant say this as an absolute, but i am pretty sure a barb is where its at). Not to mention, my barb can farm MP10 no problem ( as in no deaths, takes a good 3-4 minutes to tear down an elite with 60m HP) with average gear (140kish unbuffed DPS) where as my DH had issues in mp3-4 with about the same unbuffed DPS and all resists. With that said, the barb population would increase as people try to combat their deflating gold stock, further screwing up the economy as int/dex gear goes for dirt cheap and anything decent with a str roll would be out of the question.
So, overall I do agree with keeping the bonuses to a minimum. Its good for the community and longevity of the game
Edited by Evildeeds#1937 on 11/16/2012 5:23 PM PST
I think the problem is people would rather struggle on content with a high chance to gain acceptable or decent loot instead of farming a ton of easy content constantly in order to ever see good loot.

The part of the game I hate the most, and I'm sure many agree, is the need to cruise the auction house. Don't get me wrong, we're thrilled it's there! But there should be less emphasis on selling loot via the AH. We really need some comfort of life changes.

I might recommend having less loot drop, but having what drop be better. I would also recommend ways to make high rolled stats stand out so you can skim gear easier.
11/16/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Hayrich
Lower MPs scale better in terms of exp bonuses, but the most efficient level is the highest one where you can still literally one-shot everything. Doesn't make sense to do MP 0, when you can kill things equally fast on a higher level (say, MP 3). Why settle for a lesser bonus when you can get a higher one in the same amount of time? That's what I don't understand when people say, "Do MP 0 regardless of gear".

What I don't understand is when people say, "Well, I farm MP3, jnot MP0, so the system is obviously fine." If you're really farming MP3, it's a given that you can play at a higher difficulty, just like those who farm MP0 do. So why don't you? The answer is obviously: because it's not efficient.

Your observation only proves that the problem doesn't go away until you're ultimately able to farm MP10. You've just shifted the problem three levels further ahead.
Fix the exp scaling pls.. This is one of the reason why the economy is shallowed at the moment.... Why would anyone wants to invest into their gears when Mp 0 is the most efficient...
noob question but what do you all mean by fix exp scaling? i thought you got more exp from higher mp's?
Edited by NastyNati#1632 on 11/16/2012 11:03 PM PST
NO! BAD! We don't want LESS rewards... WE WANT MORE!
Ok I gotta bring some math into this thread to help people understand how the MP system works and what MP is best for you. If you have a very basic understanding of algebra then you should be able to follow.

So let's say that you farm in Act 3, and your average run takes you 30 minutes, and that you have some pretty amazing gear so you basically 1 shot everything that you come into contact with, and also let's assume that you play on MP0 because you feel that's the most efficient given how fast you can burn through it. Now let's do some math!

So you can do your normal farming route in Act 3 in 30 minutes in your current gear, but you want to know what MP is best for you. You decide to try a farming run on MP5 and you don't like it because it takes you 40 minutes to complete the run (remember, we're assuming you have some pretty good gear.) We're also going to assume that you aren't very high Paragon and that you don't have much MF gear, so we're going to assume that your BASE magic find is 100 (for the sake of math, we'll delve into this more a bit later.)

SO! You can clear MP0 in 30 minutes or clear mp5 in 40 minutes, which one is more efficient? The answer lies in a simple math equation that is: Loot = (1+bonus item drop chance)*(1+net MF) / time. So you simply run both MPs through this equation to find which is better.

In scenario 1, with MP0, Loot = (1+.0)*(1+175%) / 30 minutes (.5hours) = 2.75 / .5 = 5.5 "loots per hour." (We'll use "loots per hour, or LPH, as a base of reference to determine how much loot you're getting.)

In scenario 2, with MP5, loot = (1+.36)*(1+300%) / 40 minutes (.67.hours) = 8.12 LPH.

So we can see that 8.12 LPH is definitely > 5.5 LPH, so MP5 definitely wins out in this scenario.

Now, as your MF goes up VIA gear or Paragon levels, then the overall value of farming at a higher MP declines, so let's run the same scenario but assume max base MF (300%).

Scenario 1, with MP0, loot = (1+.0)*(1+375%) / 30 minutes (.5hours) = 9.5 LPH.

Scenario 2, with MP5, loot = (1+.36)*(1+500) / 40minutes (.67hours) = 10.15 LPH.

Even with max MF, MP5 still outweighs MP0. I would venture a guess that with the gear mentioned in this scenario, your "sweet spot" would be MP5 if you had low MF, or MP4 if you had high MF, disregarding any other factors (such as ability to maintain WotB at a lower MP, or anything like that.)

So basically the best way for you to determine your "most efficient" place to farm is to use that formula. Get a general "point of reference" from doing your normal run at various MPs, then run it through that formula, and you should have a pretty general guide as to which MP is most efficient for you :).

Keep in mind that this formula includes NV stacks, but does NOT include the "forced rare" off a rare pack at 5stacks (since we're mainly talking about legendary items here.) It also does not account for the most efficient place to farm exp. If exp is all that you're interested in, then use a similar formula: exp = total exp bonus (exp gained from items + exp gained from MP + exp gained from NV) / time, to determine your most efficient exp farming place.
how do you set monster power just curious i dont know how to do that
Just to share my experience (no pun intended), I used to have about 200-300k dps (with a Skorn, but I swapped it out for my old BK set for farming). I am MP 10 capable, but probably most comfortable from MP 5-7.

I used to wonder why my experience progress was such a drag, until I decided to go for lower MP levels, preferably 0-2. MP 3 onwards mobs don't get one-shotted, and my runs start getting longer for worse experience/hr rates. I also had to switch out my Skorn for a mighty weapon to improve fury regeneration at lower MP levels, since everything dies too quickly. I don't think or strategise my fights any more, which I do at higher MP levels. Often times, I find my mind drifting to other matters while farming.

In short, I can do MP 5-10, but for the sake of experience gain, I have to hop on to lower MPs, use my inferior older set of weapons, and do mind numbingly boring easy fights... Blizzard has stated that they have no intent to "force players to go to higher MPs", the reverse has happened. I am forced to do lower MPs.

Ideally, the scaling should be set such that higher MPs give at least as much exp/hr as lower MPs, if not more. I am biased towards having more exp/hr for people who can challenge higher MPs, though not excessively so. If Blizzard chooses not to tweak the experience higher for MP levels, then I will continue on MP 0 or 1. The only chance I have to use my Skorn is during uber runs at high MP levels.
Edited by Hayrich#6694 on 11/17/2012 2:48 AM PST
The drop rates do need to be bumped on higher mp right now ppl even in amazing gear feel forced to play low mp not better or anything but reasonably comparable with CLEARSPEED of a char in range for this mp in mind.

Emotion or feel good or feels wrong approach does not solve anything the problem is a mathematical scaling issue THAT IS FORCING the dead opposite of what you were trying to prevent, your not forcing people to play high MPL, great players are feeling FORCED to run low mpl.

The last time I checked, nobody is coercing you and putting a gun to your head to play on a MP setting. How can you say you are forced to do it? Do you know what the word "forced" means?
11/17/2012 02:13 AMPosted by genrukinx1
how do you set monster power just curious i dont know how to do that

In the Main menu of D3 (press ESCAPE to pop it) :
Options - Gameplay - Right pane of that window, the line before last, Checkbox to enable Monster Power Level.

While you are there, enable Elective mode if it's not on yet.

Hope that helps.
Edited by InstantOcean#1793 on 11/17/2012 3:36 AM PST
11/17/2012 03:32 AMPosted by Scala
The last time I checked, nobody is coercing you and putting a gun to your head to play on a MP setting. How can you say you are forced to do it? Do you know what the word "forced" means?

You are correct and also you are dead wrong for a simple reason: You don't get it. So let me explain. Bliz introduced the Monster Power Level System in order to introduce more challenge to players that finished the game and are decently geared. They also said that with more MP, you would get more REWARDS. That is the premise of the system. Turns out it is not the case.

When I first read the OP, I was in some sort of disbelief and being a guy of science, I decided to test it myself. Turns out he is DEAD RIGHT, SMACK ON THE MONEY! The MP level that gives you the best loot/exp/gold VS the time devoted is NO MP level. When I looked at the numbers and did the calculations, I fell on my butt. Like it was said many times in this thread, the scaling is wrong and needs to be fixed.

SO... back to being forced or not. You are correct in saying that Bliz is NOT forcing any one to do ANYTHING. We are free to play the game (or not) at any MP level (or none) BUT when you know for fact that you'll make MORE REWARD by playing at MP 0, unless you are a masochist or a retard, why would you submit yourself to the increasing "aggravation" of MP levels for LESS REWARD vs time invested? While not being "forced", to paraphrase M. Spock (Star Trek character from the past), "logic dictates that you SHOULD play at MP 0".

Hope you understand now and also see the frustration when faced with facts like that. MP levels were supposed to make this game more rewarding... Epic Fail... and why am I not surprised?

And don't get me started on that stupid Hellfire ring... for which you have to jump through hoops and do back-flips to get and once you get it and equip it, it's not even worth your average good rare ring, EXCEPT for the extra 35% EXP that it gives. That fireball it shoots makes up for great visual effect but in terms of DPS, ain't impressive at all!

TL;DR : Since MP0 is the most effective, it is the ONLY logical level to play. Scaling is off. Needs fixing. - Hellfire ring requires way too much work for the little it gives except for the 35% EXP bonus... the rest is laughable.
Edited by InstantOcean#1793 on 11/17/2012 4:10 AM PST
I started playing the game fw days ago has a barb. played mp0 in normal and started nightmare playing MP10 and im loving MP10, i never use potions.

No i dont use WW :)

* Rend with blood lust
* Revenge with vengeance is mine.
* Frenzy with sidearm.
* Warcry with hardened wrath.

* If taking 2 much dmg i just use ground stomp to stun all mobs followed by earthquake.

Its fun, some bosses are a pain to kill too :)
Edited by DarknessEyes#2490 on 11/17/2012 5:47 AM PST
MP0 should be harder than it is since Monster Powers isn't even turned on as default, and life on higher MPs should be nerfed with at least 50%. MP10 is not challengning, it's boring.
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