Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now


Just because some players can't farm the higher MP efficiently, it doesn't mean they shouldn't use MP at all. It just means that they should lower that MP until they hit a point that they are happy with.


You're missing the point. People that can farm higher MP efficiently, don't, because they're better off doing the lower MPs and steam rolling elites and ~3 seconds for the fastest XP and legends per hour.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/14/2012 9:05 PM PST
11/14/2012 09:04 PMPosted by Strifen
You're missing the point. People that can farm higher MP efficiently, don't, because they're better off doing the lower MPs and steam rolling elites and ~3 seconds for the fastest XP and legends per hour.


Well then I'd say that apparently they can't farm higher MP efficiently. That or you're using the word efficiently incorrectly.

And again, MP isn't suppose to help grinding/farming for items. It is mostly there as a challenge of sorts and to provide some sort of reward for attempting it. Versus it have 0 rewards and then really having a dead system.
Blue said it best. MP system was a great addition to the game.
First there needs to be an agreement amongst blizzard as to how long it should take to kill an elite pack at a certain number of dps. If it takes 10 minutes to clear the average elite pack on mp10 @ this number, and only 1 minute on mp1, then mp10 needs to drop 10x the xp and loot as mp1. These arnt exact numbers but just an example for easy figuring.


this is just dumb... stop
You're missing the point. People that can farm higher MP efficiently, don't, because they're better off doing the lower MPs and steam rolling elites and ~3 seconds for the fastest XP and legends per hour.


Well then I'd say that apparently they can't farm higher MP efficiently. That or you're using the word efficiently incorrectly.

And again, MP isn't suppose to help grinding/farming for items. It is mostly there as a challenge of sorts and to provide some sort of reward for attempting it. Versus it have 0 rewards and then really having a dead system.


I can farm MP 5-6 no problem, it takes a bit longer sure, but I am better off farming MP 2 or 3 for the fastest XP and legendaries, clearly this is a problem.

People aren't stupid, they aren't going to do higher MP just because, if the rewards aren't there then people aren't going to want to do it.

I don't want to have to play steamroll in MP 2-3 to make the best use out of my time, the fact players geared in the top 1% choose to do these lower MP's when they can handle the higher ones no problem shows the system is a failure.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/14/2012 9:12 PM PST
For clarity I find the game much more fun on around MP 5-6 but the fact is it's not worth my time. All I want (and others here) is to make it so doing a higher MP is equally as rewarding as steamrolling a lower MP, is that really too much to ask????
My assertion, is that if only the best items in the game drop in mp10, then it forces people to play mp10, and it has no longer become an optional difficulty.

First there needs to be an agreement amongst blizzard as to how long it should take to kill an elite pack at a certain number of dps. If it takes 10 minutes to clear an elite pack on mp10 @ this number, and only 1 minute on mp1, then mp10 needs to drop 10x the xp and loot as mp1. These arnt exact numbers but just an example for easy figuring.


Best items should be available on every difficulty, I think everyone who has suggested improving item quality has said the same. Here is what I said:

2) Make average quality drops in each monster power level more commensurate with expected player gear quality. The possibility of getting the best item should be available on all Monster Power levels, however, the possibility of getting a horrible item should diminish as Monster Power rises. Players would not be forced to play higher MP levels because they get faster kill rate on lower MP, thus more chances at a good item. But playing higher MP is still more rewarding because you get less junk and typical drops are more commensurate with your gear level.

This could be a replacement for the +MF/+GF scaling currently given


The key thing that is different from your perception is that the best quality items should be available no matter what MP level you play. The thing that changes is not your chance at getting a good item, it is your chance at getting a bad item. As you increase MP, junk should diminish. The reasoning is simple: a highly geared player is guaranteed to have no use for a low quality item, but a starting Inferno player might have use for a low quality item. In both cases, players are getting items that they can use. As you get better gear, you can improve your gear drops in either of two ways:
A) Continue grinding low MP for more chances at good items (due to faster kill rate)
B) Challenge yourself with higher MP. You will get fewer items due to slower kill rate, but those items will be more likely to be worth the 1 second to identify. This is an option to challenge yourself with the game rather than grind with the game. Both options give the same results, it's just a choice of grind versus challenge.

It basically turns the MP question into one of quality versus quantity. For the outlier item of extreme value, both options are valid paths to reach it. If that perfect item roll is a 1 in a billion chance roll, are you better off getting it by trying to roll a billion times by killing tons of things, or to change those odds to make it a 1 in a 100 million chance, but only be able to get 100 million rolls in the same amount of time. That is up to the player. Monster power should be the thing that enables that choice. In 1.05 it is not the case, MP0 is better for all player, for all situations, for all purposes. There is no choice. MP0 is just better.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Give bonus movement speed and pickup radius for each MP level and that will make the challenge more fun!
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Give bonus movement speed and pickup radius for each MP level and that will make the challenge more fun!


Best idea I've heard, give ~2% move speed and 1 PUR for every point of MP that you increase.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items.

...

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards.

...

...what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)

The problem, as I see it, is that the players feel (correctly) like they absolutely need to play at the lowest MP level in order to get the best rewards. The best approach, IMO, is to scale the MF and GF bonuses with the increase in monster life and damage. If you use mob life as a barometer, for example, then each MP level increases the difficulty by a factor of 1.5. If you remove NV stacks, MF gear, and paragon levels from the equation, you'd get something like this:

MP0: No bonus (baseline)
MP1: +50% MF
MP2: +75% MF (half of the 150% MF you're getting at MP1)
MP3: +115% MF (slightly more than half of the 225% MF you're getting at MP2)
MP4: +170% MF (half of the 340% MF you're getting at MP3)

Etc.

The best result, to me, is a system that rewards players equally for time spent on the game. If they want to breeze through the easiest possible level, they'll get as many drops per hour as they would by grinding through the most difficult level. This idea can certainly be modified to fit an existing bonus like "extra loot drops from white mobs," but that's not a big deal. The big deal, as I see it, is that the system is designed upside-down: the easiest levels are the best levels for good drops because the bonuses don't scale with the extra time you need to kill mobs at higher MP levels.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


The problem is:
Low MP is just too rewarding compared to high MP. If there was a higher MF/GF/XP on high MP, more ppl would play it. I love MP9 (perfect for my gear, yet still difficult) but there is just so much more to be earned on low MP. I get sooo much XP and awesome drops.

Once I get to PL 100 I'll prob set the game to permanent MP9-10.
Edited by Rhye#2561 on 11/14/2012 9:24 PM PST
Again, the point of the system wasn't to help players grind/farm for items. The point of the system was to provide a challenge to players.

However, blizzard was aware that making a challenge for the sake of a challenge was also something that could become irrelevent very quickly. This is why there was a reward system in place also.

However, blizzard did not want players to feel obligated to play at the higher MP levels. Again, they did not want players to feel obligated to playing the higher MP levels. Thus, the rewards were adjusted so that while playing at higher MP levels would grant you better rewards, the additional rewards were set low enough so that the point of doing the higher MP levels would be for self gratfication, not for the sake of the rewards.

To that end, MP is a huge success. You do not see massive QQ threads about how the higher MP levels is what must be played to achieve the maximum efficiency in farming and how difficult it is to achieve that. In fact, you see many posts about players who are actually using the system the way it was meant to be used.

However, players are confused as to the point of MP and thus make these posts thinking that MP has failed.

Long story short, when players post things like, Oh I can farm MP5 but I farm MP2 because it is faster because my goal in the game is to farm items. Blizzard says, oh good, you found the MP level that you are comfortable with. When you then reply with, but I dont' do the highest MP level I can because the rewards aren't rewarding enough, then blizzard again says, oh good, the system isn't forcing players to play at the highest MP level possible.
^ this guy is just missing the point entirely

in-case you haven't figured it out

the system is forcing people to play at the lowest mp for the best rewards
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/14/2012 9:36 PM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Woah, this sounds completely backward. You should be forcing people into higher MP. The only system that works is one where the rewards are considerably better the higher you go up in MP, therefor you have a reason to keep grinding gear (so you can get stronger to start farming at a better rate). Right now, regardless of how good your gear is it's almost always more efficient to do MP0. Maybe as high as MP3 if you can still insta-gib on attack, but that's it.

Key farming being the only exception.
^ this guy gets the point entirely.

I'm so glad other people here understand the issue.

There is some faith left in humanity after-all.
So apparently if normal mode dropped the best gear we should all be cool with it.
Edited by Traz#1392 on 11/14/2012 9:48 PM PST
I agree with most of this thread, i feel like theres really no need to upgrade my gear past smashing mp0 / mp1 except to do high level uber farming for keys, but there are so many people willing to carry for free if you supply the machines just doesn't feel worth the time.

Granted my toon can efficiently farm mp 8 / 9 with zero deaths, its just not worth it even for a challenge point of view, because end of the day you want loot and where to get the most loot potential is face rolling mp0-3(depend on dps levels).

I personally run some crappy 5pc ik set with unforgiving for the rage regen and use warcry with the charge rune for 40rage per shout. I have no problems sprinting start to finish and mobs just die as i WW through them, i literally don't even have to stop unless something worthwhile drops and its very easy to mf cap @ that level because tbh you really dont need much dps to kill that level of content.

I understand the reason for not forcing players to farm higher mp for better end game loot, but i think there needs to be some sort of system placed where all this gearing, auction housing to boost your dps and survivability is not all for no reason. I want to farm higher mp because my gear allows me too but whats the point when farming lower mp is far better.
Edited by Nitty#6697 on 11/14/2012 9:49 PM PST
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Blizzard had a goal. Blizzard succeeded in their goal.

You do not agree with their goal. That is fine. But then it is incorrect to say that the MP system has failed because it actually did not.

It would be correct to say that blizzard's goal was incorrect and attempt to address the issue on that end. However again, giving evidence that players are not attempting higher MP because they don't feel it is worthwhile, is just validation for blizzard that MP has achieved the goals that BLIZZARD, not the players, has set.

It's like me setting a goal of eating a whole pizza pie. I then force myself to eat an entire pizza pie. My goal was achieved.

You'd be arguing that the goal of eating food is either to replenish myself or for enjoyment. The fact that I had to force myself to eat the pizza shows that I did not do it to either replenish myself or enjoyed it. You then claim that I have actually failed and that the endeavor was a failure.

But it wasn't.

Do you see the difference?

The goals are different and until you are willing to accept the goals that blizzard had set for MP and address the issue from there, you're basically not making any sense to blizzard.
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