Diablo® III

I'm sad about MP now

Uh, ok, thanks for that. Back to reality and what's actually happening. The best rewards are found in MP 0 - 3 regardless of how well your gear is (not counting uber components) - this is an issue. If their 'goal' was to make it so people weren't forced to do higher MP they screwed up the other way and made it so people are forced to do lowest MP's for the best rewards.

Scale things accordingly and there wouldn't be an issue.
Edited by Strifen#1543 on 11/14/2012 9:57 PM PST
MP 0 fast, fun, and a easy kill. Higher mp (and im not talkin 5 or 6) challenging but not as rewarding BUT I feel thats bacause it takes exponentially longer in time, so drops a fewer...
I think....

Quantity vs Quality

And if you be like, "WAAA?" right now just think how much time you spent playing low mps VS high mps.
^ this guy is just missing the point entirelyin-case you haven't figured it outthe system is forcing people to play at the lowest mp for the best rewards


I thought I should respond to this seperately.

No, the system isn't forcing you to play at the lowest mp for the best rewards. The system isn't forcing you to do anything at all.

You are choosing to play at the lower mp because you have found that it was more efficient for you.

Being more efficient does not equate to better rewards. Being efficient gives you more chances at rewards that are offered at any and every of the mp levels.

But you do not HAVE to play MP0 or 1 or 2 to get the best items in the game.
I dont know what game your playing, but for me d3 is all about the loot. If farming mp0-3 is getting me the most chance of getting "better" loot why would i bother playing mp8+. Granted yes that it is my choice entirely but anyone with commonsense and want to use their time spent farming efficiently will sit at the low mp levels.

Besides for key wardens etc...Which brings us the question why is there mp levels past 3?
Edited by Nitty#6697 on 11/14/2012 10:17 PM PST
Uh, ok, thanks for that. Back to reality and what's actually happening. The best rewards are found in MP 0 - 3 regardless of how well your gear is (not counting uber components) - this is an issue. If their 'goal' was to make it so people weren't forced to do higher MP they screwed up the other way and made it so people are forced to do lowest MP's for the best rewards. Scale things accordingly and there wouldn't be an issue.


Again, you are choosing to ignore the goals that blizzard had set out. But I can see that it's pointless to point that out to you because you flat out refuse to attempt to understand blizzards point of view.

I just wanted to point that out to you because then you would be able to form a better arguement that blizzard would actually take into account. But hey, if you want blizzard to keep ignoring you, just keep ignoring what the blue said.

Also, I posted this earlier, but the best items are not found in only MP0-3. They are actually found in all MP levels. You're not expressing yourself correctly.

You can argue that it is more efficient to farm MP0-3 and quite frankly, I'm not disagreeing with you. But this is where we reach a problem. It is because you refuse to understand blizzard's goals, you think this is where the system is broken. Blizzard didn't create MP to help grind or farm. I've posted this a fair number of times already. The MP exists to give the players a challenge. However, blizzard realized that a challenge for the sake of a challenge would become irrelevant very quickly so they put in a form of minimal reward. They didn't want this reward to become the goal of doing higher MP levels.

They didn't want this reward to become the goal of doing higher MP levels.

That is why you see the scaling as you see today.

However, given your past few posts, you probably won't understand that because you refuse to understand the goals that blizzard had set.

All I can say is this then, your arguments are ineffective because the points you are arguing are actually in line with what blizzard has successfully achieved. If you want the MP system to change, you can't argue about how player's are ditching the higher MP levels for lower ones to grind loot. This is something that blizzard was indirectly trying to achieve.

You need to address the goal that they had set. They created this system to become a challenge and wanted the players who were setting out to do the higher monster level to do it for the sake of a challenge.

You need to explain why you think this is wrong and why a harder challenge always has to provide a better reward or a better chance at a reward.
11/13/2012 09:51 PMPosted by NeLLy
Exactly its a shame that you do not get rewarded for challenging your self....


LOOOOLLLL!!!
I think Blizz did a wonderful job with MP levels and I wouldn't change a thing. With high MPs being inefficient for farming, some noobs still insist on 'farming' it even though their actual loot gained for the same time spent is lower. Then they beat their chests boasting that they can farm MP10 when in fact they would have gotten better returns on a lower MP...

This system actually encourages a bit of thinking on the player's part with regard to gear balancing against MP level. As the Blue mentioned above, you have to find the 'sweet spot' for farming. It's not like you HAVE to do MP10. There's no special content in MP10, you're just fighting the same mobs with higher HP and damage. MP10 should be a challenge and not the MP that everyone must farm to get the best loot. That was never the intent.

Which MP level you do is not an e-peen contest. Just do what suits you best. You get no special achievements from doing MP10 and you don't get specially rewarded for it either. That is exactly the way Blizz wanted it to be. Thumbs up for a job well done! :)
Edited by Veldin#1214 on 11/14/2012 10:23 PM PST
I dont know what game your playing, but for me d3 is all about the loot. If farming mp0-3 is getting me the most chance of getting "better" loot why would i bother playing mp8+. Granted yes that is my choice entirely but anyone with commonsense and want to use their time spent farming efficiently will sit at the low mp levels. Besides for key wardens etc...Which brings us the question why is there mp levels past 3?


last post for me and then I have to go to bed.

Would it be nice if blizzard would create a game that was designed solely around your wants and needs? Sure.

Did blizzard do that? No

The intent that blizzard had when creating the mp system wasn't to help you farm or get items. I can't believe how many people are ignoring that line.

It was created to give the players a challenge. That is why there is are mp levels past 3.

Do you want to play a harder mp level that doesn't reward you as much? Apparently not.

To reiterate. It's great that you play diablo for item farming, it's why I play it also. The intent for monster power isn't for item farming. Blizzard doesn't care what you think MP is for. Blizzard cares why they made MP and so far, everybody in this post that has complained about it, has actually validated blizzards success of MP.
Here is why I feel "forced" into MP1-2 even though I enjoy MP5-6 the most : I notice a decrease in my XP efficiency while doing higher MPs, without noticing an increase in my loot efficiency. Of course, the latter is heavily subject to various observation biases, but the point is that I have absolutely no idea whether or not playing in my preferred setting is worth it.

In the end, my choice of MP thus rely on my observed difference in XP efficiency. Why? Because it's stable, quite objective and feels the most rewarding as I get a sense of progression even if I don't loot anything good. If I don't get a good loot while doing a farm run in MP5-6, I just end a bit frustrated because I feel like I have wasted some of my time (the difference in XP efficiency).

If you wanted to push me up into my favorite setting, a tweak to XP scalability would suffice. If the drop in XP efficiency wasn't so noticeable with increased challenge, I would certainly do it. Or make the alleged increase in loot efficiency more noticeable, but I doubt this is feasible (due to RNG inevitably producing subjective biases).
And by the way it isn't true that MP0 is always the best. It may be for you, but for those with better gear they would get better returns doing, say, MP 3 or 4.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items. Different players have different play styles, though, so we added 10 power settings so you could decide what challenge level is best for you. For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”

What we didn’t want to do, however, is make players feel like they absolutely needed to play at the higher MP levels in order to get the best rewards. This is one of reasons that we didn’t add in Achievements for Monster Power, too. We wanted the primary motivation to be the challenge and finding a level that you enjoy. I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)


Good question!

I feel like the best answer is to increase the scale of rewards, so that people are more motivated to get their character to the highest level they can. If someone feels like MP0 gives better rewards than MP10, that's an issue.

Currently, this is the table: http://www.diablo3farming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/diablo-3-monster-power-patch-1.0.5.jpg

My suggestions for each....

-Monster Health stays the same until MP9. MP9 3000%, MP10 4000%.
-Monster Damage stays the same until MP9. MP9 350%, MP10 450%.
-XP stays the same until MP10. MP10 200%.
-Magic Find stays the same until MP7. MP7 200%, MP8 250%, MP9 300%, MP10 350%.
-Gold Find is fine as-is, there is no way of fixing that economy anyway.
-Bonus Item is fine until MP6, where I think a second Bonus Item stat should come in -- call it "Bonus Item 2". MP6 10%, MP7 25%, MP8 50%, MP9 75%, MP10 100%. Leave the original Bonus Item values alone.

You instantly have MUCH higher rewards at the highest monster difficulties, and the drops and rewards should outweigh the speed people are seeing at lower difficulties. With my suggestion, everyone can still have "some of the fun", but the rewards for the top tier players are overall better than the MP0-1 players.
Lol this whole game is a grind for loot, when doing low level mp your grinding for loot, or when doing high level mp your STILL grinding for loot.

TBH mp10 isnt even as hard as pre 1.03 inferno, now that was a challenge take a corner get 1shot by a white mob. Whats the point of having a mp system where you want to "challenge" yourself. Kool i went and full cleared mp10 challenge complete now what?

Oh thats right back to mp0 and to farm what EVERYONE wants (loot!!!!).

If the reason for the mp system is to challenge then have a MP setting (pre1.03 inferno). I would much rather farm at the mp level of my gear quality but you just cant without it being a inefficient. Having the mp system purely to challenge ones self is a floored system and needs to be changed.
Edited by Nitty#6697 on 11/14/2012 10:47 PM PST
I think the issue pertains to how the drops, chances, ratios, and percentages relate to Pacing and Speed of Play.
Rewards should be more numerous at higher MP, not necessarily greater rolled stat dropped items but just more numerous per white, champ, elite kills. Just in an increase to the drop rewards would - or should- offer the better chances at better stat dropped items than normal. Wouldn't necessarily have to speed through it, can go at whatever pace is needed to kill the more difficult monsters...but the number of items dropped would be greater than say at a lower MP level.

Then, if one plays at say MP0-3...they can speed through if wanted but would have to in order to get what would drop in say MP8-10- meaning number of items dropped. If playing MP8-10...then more would drop, which would increase the drop chances of good items due to number, but it is also because it is more difficult and slower.

Basically it would balance out the pacing. Could play whichever...go slow, speed through or just to challenge yourself and be assured that the Loot drop amounts would pertain to the level, which is increasing the chances inherently. Add all the MF and NV stuff...and it still increases the chances...if not to drop ratio of say blues, rares and legend, but also to better stats on them.

Hope this makes sense...late here so not sure if I am communicating it well enough.
Edited by xMoonDevilx#1540 on 11/14/2012 10:44 PM PST

You instantly have MUCH higher rewards at the highest monster difficulties, and the drops and rewards should outweigh the speed people are seeing at lower difficulties. With my suggestion, everyone can still have "some of the fun", but the rewards for the top tier players are overall better than the MP0-1 players.


No, no, no, no. Why doesn't anyone get it? That's precisely what the developers do NOT want.

They WANT low mp to be more 'efficient' for most players.
They WANT high mp to be less 'efficient' (for most players) so only challenge-seeking masochists will play it.

If farming mp1 is the most efficient for you, go ahead. Why do people whine and cry about not being able to do mp5 efficiently because your gear isn't godly enough?
I posted a ton on this in a thread on diablofans:

http://www.diablofans.com/topic/78083-mp-scaling-exp-broken/

That said, understanding Blizz or others may not link out to that, here's my general feeling on the matter and why I think the current system is not scaling correctly. It really comes down to this:

1) I am fine with a stated goal of not making a reward system on higher MP levels such that players that can't run them don't feel like they are being penalized.

2) However, I also want the inverse of that to be true. Namely, players that want a challenge should not feel penalized for choosing a higher Monster Power level.

Right now, for everyone, there are breaking points where it just doesn't make sense to farm a higher monster power -- not because you can't do it or you are dying but because on a judgement of efficiency, the reward system (extra MF/XP) does not scale linearly with the extra time taken. You can go up a MP level where the game feels less face-roll, but you do so knowing that you are being penalized for making this choice.

Whatever level your gear allows you to farm, the in-game incentives (reward system) steers you toward playing the game at a level where there is little challenge and you can one-shot most things / kill elite packs in 3-4 seconds (whatever MP level that is for you). The very second you up the challenge to where you are taking 10 seconds or 20 seconds on an elite pack and may be in some danger, the reward does not scale. I guess you could say the challenge is the reward . . . but usually in games, there are increased in-game incentives (rewards) that align with the increased challenge.

Anyone that runs a spreadsheet will see the XP/MF reward pans out better when you spend next to no time killing. I'm currently doing 65 mil XP / hr on MP1 -- it is complete face roll. I would like to up the MP to something that felt less mindless but diminishing returns start to kick in even at MP3. The game feels better but the reward system penalizes me for playing where the game feels better. Gear progression does not really fix this. Even those at the very best gear levels (top 1% even top .1%) find it more efficient to farm at a far lower MP level than their gear allows them to handle. For some of the best geared, the diminishing return point is MP5 or MP6 -- but the point is the current MF/XP bonuses scale less than the increased HP/ time-to-kill and thus encourage you to play where you can one-shot white mobs and kill elite packs in sub-5 seconds.

Because the reward system does not currently scale to match the challenge / time invested, there is a disconnect between wanting to be challenged and feeling unrewarded, even penalized, for playing a more challenging level. This seems counter to good game design.
Edited by Emberos#1608 on 11/14/2012 11:16 PM PST
I like MP, but I don't like public games being limited to MP0. It isolates the community and puts players into the AH reliant mode more than ever. That's not mentioning the 4 player limit.
Edited by WingsofEros#1809 on 11/14/2012 11:08 PM PST


Because the reward system does not currently scale to match the challenge / time invested, there is a disconnect between wanting to be challenged and feeling unrewarded, even penalized, for playing a more challenging level. This seems counter to good game design.


This is the best summary of why the MP system needs to be adjusted and deserves a repeat, kudos to you.
Well jeezy peezy, all you guys wanting more loot from the higher MP levels, Blizz could fix that easily. All they'd have to do is load in 10 times more white mobs in those levels and all you demon killing pros would have more loot to ID than you can possibly imagine.

Ya'all'd prolly be so busy picking up legendaries you wouldn't have time to QQ about how crappy MP is anymore.

No... you'd QQ about having to kill the whites that drop drop most of the legs in the game.
Guys I would like to highlight that you should keep in mind something.
If you complain too much about the bad quality of loot at high MP levels, then what Blizz will do is further decrease the loot quality at lower MP levels. NOT increase the loot at high MP levels.

Dont forget that there is certain economy and RMAH concept in this game. They can not let the prices drop too much.
Because the reward system does not currently scale to match the challenge / time invested, there is a disconnect between wanting to be challenged and feeling unrewarded, even penalized, for playing a more challenging level. This seems counter to good game design.


Working as intended... as the whole game was originally intended to work. Nothing has changed about the original mission of the D3 design team.
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