Diablo® III

CM/WW DPS Tests and Observations

my bad not prismatic armor but crystall shell+ glass canon better than (for the moment in my testing) than crystal shard+evoation

I guess if you have enough ehp go shard+glass canon.

Gonna try with siegebreaker and azmodan, can't stun lock ghom enough(move too much) to get better result.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,934
View profile
Thank you for sharing.
Reply Quote
Great post mate, bump !
Reply Quote
I have just tried Stretch Time Rune using a macro basically spamming it as available (13ms repeat time)

With it I surpassed the 3.01 acs threshold but instead of a dps boost I got a 15% dps drop, not sure why but tested it several times.
Edited by GreyMouser#2169 on 10/31/2012 5:01 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Really good post and confirms my own suspicions...

And yes, it would be nice to have similar posts which check:
1) Effectiveness compared to meteor rain builds (I suspect that SNS is the highest damage build wizards can pull out but... meteor is probably the best ranged build though and has more versatility; but would be nice to know about effective dps against static groups or single target, is probable meteor wins against ST with enough APOC).
2) Damage output scaling with AS and/or CC.
3) Damage output scaling with groups (this build has sort of an exponential effect on damage output he larger the group is, even low AS SNS wiz can destroy large groups faster than any other class IMO at similar gear levels; against 3 elites lower ie. <2.74 AS is hardly noticeable if you can lock them together, requires better position and skill though).
Reply Quote
@holyfork
Big thanks for figure this out!

could u run a test usig this Skilltree?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bgXYhT!TWg!cZcccc

Living lightning doesn´t proc so often, i´m not sure if u can permafreeze gohm, but the +dmg of arcane dynamo (only increasing the chain reaction) is enormous!
Reply Quote
nice
Reply Quote
11/07/2012 06:24 PMPosted by lolesch
could u run a test usig this Skilltree?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#bgXYhT!TWg!cZcccc
Stupid attempt to quote links to the build results in another "Your post contains invalid HTML characters."

Anyways... sorry, my gear can't keep me alive vs Ghom on MP8 using that build for a straight up test. It neither permafreezes nor does it generate sufficient LoH to keep me alive in his cloud. I could kill him if I kited but that's not a real DPS test anymore as you'll be including the effect of kiting into the test (which of course, lowers dps).

Was running 747 AR/4222 Arrmor/983 LoH/2.82 AS on the test and even tried Crystal Shell on Diamond Skin (which might be doable but its still iffy depending on how many direct hits he gets on you). I'd probably have to also run Prismatic to survive.

The problem thou is that Frost Nova eats Arcane Dynamo stacks so you won't be getting the full benefit out of it. I'd probably have better success using Evocation and Cold Snap here for a faster Frost Nova (and probably also be forced to run Diamond Skin).

Perhaps, someone with better gear can test it or I can try dropping to a lower MP to test with.
Reply Quote
10/29/2012 10:39 AMPosted by holyfork


Bubbles use attack turns? Didn't think they did.

You're probably right about it. I did stop mashing WW for a split second to make sure it came out. I forgot it was off the cast honestly.

Actually, i believe they do. It's probably not too noticeable vs Ghom since he's a slow-!@#. I remember testing bubbles vs uber Kulle, and he frequently managed to break free. Whereas running pure SNS kept him permanently locked down
Reply Quote
good job !
Reply Quote
Solid work, thanks for all the info!!

I have a bit of info for you after reading this though

10/29/2012 10:39 AMPosted by holyfork
The way I do SNS is to bind 1/2 to Diamond Skin and Frost Nova and hold 1/2 down the entire time. 3 is EB while my left mouse is WW and I constantly mash those.


put EB on 2, and nova on right click.

Now, you can hold 1,2 and right click, while mashing only left click. Everything will go as soon as its off cooldown! This should help you!

I read this somewhere on here before and apparantly its not common knowledge. It does work though, its even improved my stutter. Good luck!

edit:

HMm I would hate to put you back to work, But as I said this setup redcued my stutter, Im wondering if it also improved my dps then? Because now Im not manualy pressing dskin for the shards, it should be going off ever so slightly more often and more consitantly I wonder?
Edited by Camster#1504 on 11/7/2012 9:02 PM PST
Reply Quote
Solid work, thanks for all the info!!

I have a bit of info for you after reading this though

The way I do SNS is to bind 1/2 to Diamond Skin and Frost Nova and hold 1/2 down the entire time. 3 is EB while my left mouse is WW and I constantly mash those.


put EB on 2, and nova on right click.

Now, you can hold 1,2 and right click, while mashing only left click. Everything will go as soon as its off cooldown! This should help you!

I read this somewhere on here before and apparantly its not common knowledge. It does work though, its even improved my stutter. Good luck!

edit:

HMm I would hate to put you back to work, But as I said this setup redcued my stutter, Im wondering if it also improved my dps then? Because now Im not manualy pressing dskin for the shards, it should be going off ever so slightly more often and more consitantly I wonder?


Anyone who knows anything about keyboards, why doesn't swapping EB and FN work for auto-cast?
Reply Quote
Awesome. Sticky requested.
Reply Quote
Could you run time warp with teleport? I think the king would be time warp shocking aspect.
Reply Quote
So Shocking Aspect + Crystal Shell > Pinpoint Armor + Diamond Shards right?
Reply Quote
@ holyfork

Can you find out how much dps you do by replacing blink for Meteor/molten please?
Reply Quote
That's some really awsome data. I actually did a similar test with my char a week or so ago, but I can't survive above MP4 with the full SNS build in my pitiful gear. I think my stats are like 40% crit, 20 APoC, 890 LoH, 1.6-2.2 APS. I actually tried looking into APS vs effective dps but didn't really have time to complete the analysis. I also looked at shards, pinpoint, shocking aspect, but I also ran the test with Storm Armor but no rune, to see just how much the armor is giving vs the rune.

I'm most suprised by the pinpoint barrier results. I expected the effective (you call it sustained) dps to raise by more than just the amount expected from the char sheet dps increase, though that might be because you're mostly AP saturated so the crit doesn't really affect your AP usage, whereas for me it did, because my crit is pretty low.

Also, I can confirm that Slow Time requires an attack animation. The easy way to test is equip lightning blast skill, spam it for a few seconds, then cast Slow Time. You should see a gap in your blasts that corresponds to the slow time cast. You can do the same with nova, DS, EB, or any other skill. You might have to reduce attack speed to make it more noticable.

If I have time this weekend I'll compare some of your results to my dps simulator and see if I can get a reasonably close match. That's half the reason I ran my own tests, so I can verify the workings of my simulator to share it with the community. It's on the diablofans site but its still mostly in beta testing form, and not easily used because it's in an engineering programming language. When I do get around to testing more, would you mind if I use and post your data for comparison? I don't have Storm Armor modeled yet because I don't completely know how it works, but I have most of the others programmed (shards, pinpoint, evocation, cold blooded, among others).
Reply Quote
@ holyfork
Can you find out how much dps you do by replacing blink for Meteor/molten please?

I'm actually kind of torn on how to test this one.

The problem is that I'm not sure if I should proceed with an emphasis on DPS or an emphasis on freezing. The more meteors I cast, the harder it is to keep Ghom still but more likely than not, the more DPS I do overall. And vice versa. So there's going to be some variation due to just Meteor/WW selection for casts and I'm not entirely sure how I want to sort out that variation before I go ahead and test it. I think the minimum amount of meteors cast should at least be enough to keep Conflag up (if you're going to run Meteor/Molten, no reason not to use Conflag) but I'm not sure what the max should be yet or where exactly the balance sits between doing DPS and keeping Ghom frozen.

That said, I've been at least running around with the spec to figure out how it works better and how to feel out when I can start either Meteor machinegunning things (with lots of mobs) or mixing Meteor into the casts (with 1-2 mobs).

I can switch up my gear to keep >2.74 APS, ~57% CC (w/ Scoundrel), and 28 APoC to sustain huge meteor spam but as it stands, Meteor just doesn't generate enough CM procs with my current crit % to spam them alone w/out WW. Might have to try 2pc Nat's to get that to work better but I'd probably cry if I replaced my ring with anything less than a CC Nat's which I can't afford atm/isn't a priority to get.
Edited by holyfork#1768 on 11/8/2012 3:18 PM PST
Reply Quote
I'm actually kind of torn on how to test this one.

The problem is that I'm not sure if I should proceed with an emphasis on DPS or an emphasis on freezing. The more meteors I cast, the harder it is to keep Ghom still but more likely than not, the more DPS I do overall. And vice versa. So there's going to be some variation due to just Meteor/WW selection for casts and I'm not entirely sure how I want to sort out that variation before I go ahead and test it. I think the minimum amount of meteors cast should at least be enough to keep Conflag up (if you're going to run Meteor/Molten, no reason not to use Conflag) but I'm not sure what the max should be yet or where exactly the balance sits between doing DPS and keeping Ghom frozen.

That said, I've been at least running around with the spec to figure out how it works better and how to feel out when I can start either Meteor machinegunning things (with lots of mobs) or mixing Meteor into the casts (with 1-2 mobs).

I can switch up my gear to keep >2.74 APS, ~57% CC (w/ Scoundrel), and 28 APoC to sustain huge meteor spam but as it stands, Meteor just doesn't generate enough CM procs with my current crit % to spam them alone w/out WW. Might have to try 2pc Nat's to get that to work better but I'd probably cry if I replaced my ring with anything less than a CC Nat's which I can't afford atm/isn't a priority to get.


From my experience, meteor doesn't generate enough cm procs even with 30 APOC and 55cc+.

I don't think it is possible to spam meteor 'non stop'. you sorta have to stop for a bit to make sur you have enough WW up. But the damage meteor/molten provide is simply astonishing..
Reply Quote
depending on the gear molten impact outperforms time shell even against single targets. thats my observation using my gear. but the cost is less defense and also a bit less dmg dealt by your possible party members. it's a tough call but definately a great choice. caution: it'll require more skill as you need the proper timing casting meteors and maintaining perma-freeze.

going with prism and casting wicked wind now and then almost enables spamming meteor unlimited. but
you wont perma-freeze single targets anymore
and then the enemies wont always be under the effect of frost nova (15%dmg buff from rune, 20% from cold blooded)
and it happens that they move out of the AoE.

still i feel like going with the correct MP-level and party set up it's kickass going with meteor.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]