Diablo® III

Perfecting the Act3 run - an empirical study

ok the discussion till now has been all xp farming focused, probably the ops intent. but what about loot farming?

yeah these sort of runs are great for loot too but for example, as mentioned before scorpions seem to give more xp than skeletons but im finding skeletons and demons give more loot than scropions, like if they have better drop tables. anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ps: sorry to sidetrack this discussion but i think it also might be interesting for people like me who really dont care that much about leveling fast since we have mf capped already through gear.
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Good work gathering the raw data. For pg. 2 you could go through that massive list of raw data points in your second post and arrange them by area -- this way people could easily see A) the mean stats for an area & B) that your data is robust; i.e. that each given testing condition is supported by multiple data points with tight variability.

In any case its nt absolutely necessary since you give the averages for each place (I think?) but it might look nicer, and average values don't tell the full story anyway (you need to know the stdev for example to get a basic idea of how accurate a number is... i.e. were all tested areas consistent, or are some heavily influenced by variabiltiy (high stdev)
Edited by Alesso#1854 on 11/22/2012 11:25 AM PST
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ok the discussion till now has been all xp farming focused, probably the ops intent. but what about loot farming?

yeah these sort of runs are great for loot too but for example, as mentioned before scorpions seem to give more xp than skeletons but im finding skeletons and demons give more loot than scropions, like if they have better drop tables. anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ps: sorry to sidetrack this discussion but i think it also might be interesting for people like me who really dont care that much about leveling fast since we have mf capped already through gear.


That's a good point. I still care every potential chance of upgrade on my way to 100 so I'm not playing for maximized xp by neglecting the majority of loot.

I have been keeping track of every legendary drop I had. The data below is only a summary of my legendary loot in act 3 since I played archon (around the end of 1.0.4), but I'm not trying to claim any area has better drop than another from this small sample size (n=107). The numbers should also be normalized by either clear time or mob amount which I don't have reliable data at hand.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/Kobune/LegendaryDrop.jpg


Total 107 100%

Keep2 19 0.177570093
Stonefo 15 0.140186916
Rakkis 13 0.121495327
FoS 12 0.112149533
Keep1 11 0.102803738
Crater2 10 0.093457944
Skycro 8 0.074766355
Keep3 7 0.065420561
Crater1 5 0.046728972
Damn1 4 0.037383178
Curse1 2 0.018691589
Core 1 0.009345794
Edited by Kobune#1184 on 11/22/2012 12:36 PM PST
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I've recently been skipping the whole "build 5NV in low trashs zones and then high xp zones". With some improvement.

This whole thing is just supposed to reduce NV stacking overhead in runs, otherwise we would just run arreat1/2/DK2 and repeat.
But to what extent ? Does it justify spending a significant time of the run duration in low xp zones ?

So let's do overhead calculation with OP's setup to use his xp/s values.

Double hellfire/ruby give +73%. Let's average NV bonus to +30% during NV stacking. Meaning you run at +103% compared to the remaining of the run at +148%. A 0.82 multiplier.

I compared running "low xp NV building" zones (13k xp/s) then good zones (17k xp/s) to running only good zones. I spend approx 1.5mn building my 5NV in Core/Damned. I can build them nearly as fast in Skycrown/Rakkis.

(13*1.5*0.82 + 17*t) / (t+1.5) > [17*1.5*0.82 + 17 * (t - 1.5)] / t

And I obtain that "low XP NV building" is interesting if my good zones run time (t) is under 1mn25s so if my full run is under 2mn55s. It is far longer.


Although I don't think I usually get 5 stacks of NV within 1.5min, the result is still the same with longer "stack time". But it's kind of counter-intuitive to me. I'll do some field test to verify that for sure.
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My route as a Acid cloud WD:

1. Start from town into Keeps 1.
2. Proceed to Forged in Battle quest in Keeps 1
3. Let pets fight the quest while I'm actually identifying my items. (For Archons, just wait at a safe spot and indentify your items while the quest is spawning mobs, then clear them in one shot at the same time after all has spawned)
4. Sell stuff after quest. (free NV basically)
5. Proceed to Keeps 1 waypoint and teleport to Keeps 3.
6. Proceed to Keeps 2 from there.
7. Clear Keeps 2.
8. Remake game.

Any time I get stuck in Keeps 2, I immediately TP to town and WP to Keeps 1 then proceed to continue Keeps 2 from there. No back tracking. No time wasted even when selling stuff.
Edited by Wtflag#1258 on 11/22/2012 5:40 PM PST
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Keeps 3 involves too much backtracking imho.

I've been running Arreat 1, as per OP's recommendation, and begin to feel efficient in it (targeting a deadend).
I've also completely stopped running low XP zones for NV building, from my above calculations.

Skycrown (linear) -> Rakkis south (linear) -> Fields (8-shape clean) -> Keeps 2 (square clean) -> Arreat 1 (deadend clean) -> Arreat 2 (wp to end).
Edited by krali#2833 on 11/23/2012 6:02 AM PST
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To efficiently run through keep level 2 do this.

1. Go forward as straight as possible try to avoid not going strait.

2. When you have to go left or right go left.

3. If you can't go forward (dead end), go back to where you could go left or right and go what would have been left unless its already cleared, otherwise go right. Try to hit the LITTLE areas on your back track back to the cross-path.

4. Repeat.

Try to imagine keep level 2 as a giant tic tac toe drawing when running it...
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You can start seeing patterns in certain maps after a while and can anticipate where the monsters will be. Not sure if you can take "experience" into account with your analysis.

Out of the doable areas, Fields and Crater 1 seem to be the most unpredictable to me in terms of where the monsters will be.
Edited by Brando#1490 on 11/23/2012 6:57 AM PST
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11/07/2012 03:41 AMPosted by yems
im not sure but i seem to run out of archon a lot when in crater 2 than in keep depths 2


Try going crater 2 after keep level 2. Refresh towards the end of keep level 2 so you have some extra time on archon to carry you to crawlers in crater 2.
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MP1 to me will always be the best... even if you're godly geared.

Use all the best mobility skills: Archon with teleport, Storm armor with scramble.

Get hit on purpose to gain 3 seconds of speed, use it to run passed the mobs and fire backwards.

Wear hellfire ring and signet while still dropping elites in just 2 or 3 seconds.


Dont forget about mf. The addition of 25% mf is like wearing a perfectly rolled mf piece of gear.

Im currently doing mp2 without noticing too much of a difference from mp 0.
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You can start seeing patterns in certain maps after a while and can anticipate where the monsters will be. Not sure if you can take "experience" into account with your analysis.

Out of the doable areas, Fields and Crater 1 seem to be the most unpredictable to me in terms of where the monsters will be.


Edited it so read crater 1 instead of 2.
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I personally just ran Alkaizer route all the way up. I don't recall ever having my archon drop in keeps 2, but it definitely did enough in crater 2 to the point that I stopped refreshing my buffs and just waited until the next area, and no I never refreshed my buffs on a dead end path.

I only ran mp0, even with 250k dps. I also only used improved archon, because teleport was way too much effort for that amount of grinding (I'm just lazy =P). I ended up running 210.5% xp in mp0 at 150k dps using cains/leorics to finish out the 90s, wish I would have done that a lot sooner.

Also I would highly recommend dropping CM. You really should never need it ever, if you do then drop the mp lvl. Not that there's much else to take, cold blooded with buriza scoundrel or I used unstable anomaly to help with reflects when using cains.
Edited by Mystikal#1229 on 11/23/2012 10:50 AM PST
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I've recently been skipping the whole "build 5NV in low trashs zones and then high xp zones". With some improvement.

This whole thing is just supposed to reduce NV stacking overhead in runs, otherwise we would just run arreat1/2/DK2 and repeat.
But to what extent ? Does it justify spending a significant time of the run duration in low xp zones ?

So let's do overhead calculation with OP's setup to use his xp/s values.

Double hellfire/ruby give +73%. Let's average NV bonus to +30% during NV stacking. Meaning you run at +103% compared to the remaining of the run at +148%. A 0.82 multiplier.

I compared running "low xp NV building" zones (13k xp/s) then good zones (17k xp/s) to running only good zones. I spend approx 1.5mn building my 5NV in Core/Damned. I can build them nearly as fast in Skycrown/Rakkis.

(13*1.5*0.82 + 17*t) / (t+1.5) > [17*1.5*0.82 + 17 * (t - 1.5)] / t

And I obtain that "low XP NV building" is interesting if my good zones run time (t) is under 1mn25s so if my full run is under 2mn55s. It is far longer.


Although I don't think I usually get 5 stacks of NV within 1.5min, the result is still the same with longer "stack time". But it's kind of counter-intuitive to me. I'll do some field test to verify that for sure.


You are right. I ended up with 25% more xp per hour by doing only Skycrown, Keep 2, FoS, Rakkis and Craters, with Stonefort at the end. All in vanilla archon lol.
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11/23/2012 10:50 AMPosted by Mystikal
Also I would highly recommend dropping CM. You really should never need it ever, if you do then drop the mp lvl. Not that there's much else to take, cold blooded with buriza scoundrel or I used unstable anomaly to help with reflects when using cains.


It makes some sense. If you can keep archon all the way, CM plays very little role there. What about Illusionist with Teleport Archon? And I think at the "right" MP level you can also drop the armor spell and Galvanizing Ward altogether, but I haven't found anything better to use... Glass Cannon may still be the most important passive for archon ironically.
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This is a noob question. But how do you get to those zones in that order? My waypoints dont save, do you always resume game for the wps to stay?. How does this work?.
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^ you select the last quest to kill Azmodan so all WPs are unlocked
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Posts: 5,435
aoc 1-2/core/toc/tod are the worse places for archon due to large map but i have to give it up for those spiderlings in aoc1-2/core, those buggers pack in numbers and xp. yum

hands down, best place for archon is the entire keeps that it's even enough for me to keep repeating it without having to do field of slaughter/rakkis crossing due to thick density.
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comment to save this post.... very informative
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11/23/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Kobune
It makes some sense. If you can keep archon all the way, CM plays very little role there. What about Illusionist with Teleport Archon? And I think at the "right" MP level you can also drop the armor spell and Galvanizing Ward altogether, but I haven't found anything better to use... Glass Cannon may still be the most important passive for archon ironically.


Galv is good so you don't have to drop archon to refresh scramble as frequently. Illusionist could work, guess it depends on your gear/mp lvl whether it would actually proc or not. I was too lazy to use tele-archon so it wouldn't have helped me any =P.
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tele-archon is pretty useful specially if u can faceroll MP levels, but in higher MP (like mp4 or higher) improved archon seems to work better for me

keep 2 is still the best for me tho, as id said i never run out of archon in here, crater 2 seems a bit unpredictable, sometimes there are route which has no mobs at all and sometimes those dead end route had some huge hordes of spiders. keep depth 2 is different, every route you take there's always mobs to kill
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