Diablo® III

Dex defense is Suck

Posts: 81
All classes have primary states that provide both offence and defense. Str(Armor) and Int(Resistance) provide good protection but by comparison Dex(Dodge) seems rather lackluster. Not only is it irregular but there are many attacks/abilities it just does not work against at all.

Some may say that a dodge is 100% mitigation and so must have some drawbacks but in truth it's generally just as(if not more) likely to have 0% mitigation. I'd be fine with that since it'll average out and probably come out about the same as if you had 2k more armor or 200 more resist all(assuming 2k main stat) but... since dodge does not work against many attacks and armor and resistance work against everything it seems quite unfair.

Now there are work-arounds for this and some have managed to get creative(applause!) but most have felt stuck with cookie cutter solutions. I'm not sure about DH's but many Monks feel trapped into using OwE for example just to get some extra protection to bring them up to par.

If the devs want balance and diversity, it seems quite clear they need to fix dodge.
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i agree dex is weak. but it's not strictly worse than int and str as you claim. it doesn't offer protection from some stuff, but it offers protection against other stuff that int and str doesn't. for example, the ability to dodge frozen bombs. that's the reason i consciously try to get some dex on my barb and wiz.
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11/12/2012 10:16 PMPosted by haushinka
i agree dex is weak. but it's not strictly worse than int and str as you claim. it doesn't offer protection from some stuff, but it offers protection against other stuff that int and str doesn't. for example, the ability to dodge frozen bombs. that's the reason i consciously try to get some dex on my barb and wiz.

Barbs get 20% dodge with WotB. Are you doing it wrong?

Given the diminishing returns on the Dexterity to Dodge ratio, Dodge represents the absolute worst stat for mitigation. Hands down.

Anything threatening can not be dodged. Arcane beams, reflects damage, Jailor, Vortex, Plague, Desecration... they'll kill you. Armor reduces their damage, so does All Resist. Dodge? No reduction. No avoidance. No help.
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I've lost count of the number of times I've been fleeing with my DH and i've seen an attack come in and know im dead and I've survived due to 35% dodge chance.
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Anything threatening can not be dodged. Arcane beams, reflects damage, Jailor, Vortex, Plague, Desecration... they'll kill you. Armor reduces their damage, so does All Resist. Dodge? No reduction. No avoidance. No help.


You can avoid those things yourself.

Dodge is actually a pretty damn good stat, believe me.

EDIT: Dex pretty much complements Armor(Str) and Res(Int) just like Vit does
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 11/12/2012 10:43 PM PST
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Allow us to dodge ticks/affixes.
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Posts: 12,673
You can avoid those things yourself.

Dodge is actually a pretty damn good stat, believe me.

EDIT: Dex pretty much complements Armor(Str) and Res(Int) just like Vit does
Checked, couldn't find your lv 60 Monk.
I did find your Paragon 35 Barb though.

Dex doesn't work for Monks as a mitigation stat. Flat out. To argue any differently means you haven't played it. What does a Monk gain when they level Paragon? 1 Str, 1 Int, 3 Dex. How does that "complement" when Dex is the major stat? Not to mention that once your Dex passes 500, you get slammed by big diminishing returns for Dex to Dodge ratio.

But hey, a Barb that gains 20% dodge with WoTB, perma-cc immunity, runs faster than every other class, ignores mob collision, and soft caps at ~200 Dodge through Paragon wouldn't know anything about that.

Next response: "you can roll Barb too". That's not the point. Point is, Dex as a mitigation stat sucks.
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Posts: 81
11/12/2012 10:25 PMPosted by CyberGoat
i agree dex is weak. but it's not strictly worse than int and str as you claim. it doesn't offer protection from some stuff, but it offers protection against other stuff that int and str doesn't. for example, the ability to dodge frozen bombs. that's the reason i consciously try to get some dex on my barb and wiz.

Barbs get 20% dodge with WotB. Are you doing it wrong?

Given the diminishing returns on the Dexterity to Dodge ratio, Dodge represents the absolute worst stat for mitigation. Hands down.

Anything threatening can not be dodged. Arcane beams, reflects damage, Jailor, Vortex, Plague, Desecration... they'll kill you. Armor reduces their damage, so does All Resist. Dodge? No reduction. No avoidance. No help.


^This.

@Milfkin(sp I know, I make a funny) - I saying it will never help you when you get vortexed into into a death puddle, Or jailed with an arcane sentry sweeping at you with your breakout on cd or any number of situations... not saying it's useless, it's just not as good by something more than a small amount

@ActionKungfu - Not always. Often you are forced into bad spots by CC elites, and they always have some sort of CC it seems.
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Checked, couldn't find your lv 60 Monk.
I did find your Paragon 35 Barb though.

Dex doesn't work for Monks as a mitigation stat. Flat out. To argue any differently means you haven't played it. What does a Monk gain when they level Paragon? 1 Str, 1 Int, 3 Dex. How does that "complement" when Dex is the major stat? Not to mention that once your Dex passes 500, you get slammed by big diminishing returns for Dex to Dodge ratio.

But hey, a Barb that gains 20% dodge with WoTB, perma-cc immunity, runs faster than every other class, ignores mob collision, and soft caps at ~200 Dodge through Paragon wouldn't know anything about that.

Next response: "you can roll Barb too". That's not the point. Point is, Dex as a mitigation stat sucks.

Your forgetting warcry that increases dodge chance by 15% getting the total dodge chance to about 50% works pretty well. Dodge is a great support attribute.
Edited by SWAV#1980 on 11/12/2012 11:19 PM PST
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11/12/2012 10:37 PMPosted by Mifkin
I've lost count of the number of times I've been fleeing with my DH and i've seen an attack come in and know im dead and I've survived due to 35% dodge chance.


So true lol
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Posts: 81
Checked, couldn't find your lv 60 Monk.
I did find your Paragon 35 Barb though.

Dex doesn't work for Monks as a mitigation stat. Flat out. To argue any differently means you haven't played it. What does a Monk gain when they level Paragon? 1 Str, 1 Int, 3 Dex. How does that "complement" when Dex is the major stat? Not to mention that once your Dex passes 500, you get slammed by big diminishing returns for Dex to Dodge ratio.

But hey, a Barb that gains 20% dodge with WoTB, perma-cc immunity, runs faster than every other class, ignores mob collision, and soft caps at ~200 Dodge through Paragon wouldn't know anything about that.

Next response: "you can roll Barb too". That's not the point. Point is, Dex as a mitigation stat sucks.

Your forgetting warcry that increases dodge chance by 15% getting the total dodge chance to about 50% works pretty well as well. Dodge is a great support attribute.


Yes, dodge is good to have, just not as good as what other classes get.
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11/12/2012 10:16 PMPosted by haushinka
i agree dex is weak. but it's not strictly worse than int and str as you claim. it doesn't offer protection from some stuff, but it offers protection against other stuff that int and str doesn't. for example, the ability to dodge frozen bombs. that's the reason i consciously try to get some dex on my barb and wiz.


i beg to differ that str is far worse than dex.

1 STR = 20 armor/plus dps if i remember correctly. Armor reduces damage exponentially

10 INT = 1 all resist/ plus dps reduces elemental damage not that much

1 dex = ? percent or rate of dodge. dodge = mitigated damage but you cant dodge all attacks

i got like 2.1k of dex and i only have 40% to 49% dodge rate.
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Posts: 81
To be clear, this is not a 'barb is OP' thread. This is a 'Dex classes get screwed on defense' thread and so far it seems we do.
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Posts: 81
1

11/12/2012 11:23 PMPosted by leehanz
i agree dex is weak. but it's not strictly worse than int and str as you claim. it doesn't offer protection from some stuff, but it offers protection against other stuff that int and str doesn't. for example, the ability to dodge frozen bombs. that's the reason i consciously try to get some dex on my barb and wiz.


i beg to differ that str is far worse than dex.

1 STR = 20 armor/plus dps if i remember correctly. Armor reduces damage exponentially

10 INT = 1 all resist/ plus dps reduces elemental damage not that much

1 dex = ? percent or rate of dodge. dodge = mitigated damage but you cant dodge all attacks

i got like 2.1k of dex and i only have 40% to 49% dodge rate.


actually it's

1 Str = 1 armor

10 dex = 1% dodge untill you reach 100 dex then it drops quickly until 2k dex is about 40% dodge
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Posts: 81


Looking at your lame profile, I would say that the Exploration sucks for you. :/

_______________________________________
Stick and move
Boogie fever!


Yes that's very helpful ty you may go now
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Posts: 4,797
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You can avoid those things yourself.

Dodge is actually a pretty damn good stat, believe me.

EDIT: Dex pretty much complements Armor(Str) and Res(Int) just like Vit does
Checked, couldn't find your lv 60 Monk.
I did find your Paragon 35 Barb though.

Dex doesn't work for Monks as a mitigation stat. Flat out. To argue any differently means you haven't played it. What does a Monk gain when they level Paragon? 1 Str, 1 Int, 3 Dex. How does that "complement" when Dex is the major stat? Not to mention that once your Dex passes 500, you get slammed by big diminishing returns for Dex to Dodge ratio.

But hey, a Barb that gains 20% dodge with WoTB, perma-cc immunity, runs faster than every other class, ignores mob collision, and soft caps at ~200 Dodge through Paragon wouldn't know anything about that.

Next response: "you can roll Barb too". That's not the point. Point is, Dex as a mitigation stat sucks.


What are you?

First of all, I don't even play my softcore Barb anymore and haven't for almost 3 months. Secondly, I don't have any stock in softcore anymore and choose not to play, unless friends ask me to help them with ubers MP5+ on my soft DEMON HUNTER, because I don't die.

I play hardcore, my DH has been alive for close to 2 months. And I'm telling you, that Dex is actually a pretty damn good stat and will keep you alive. It doesn't work by itself, it is complemented by the others, the same way all the other stats complement each other, too.

Dex is not a mitigation stat. Do you even know what mitigation means? Mitigation is to soften or lessen a blow, Dex doesn't do that, because Dex isn't mitigation. Vit isn't mitigation either, it doesn't soften a blow(it's still the same pain).

People sit here and wonder why they die to certain things, and then talk about how much res they have, yet totally neglect their armor which complements res. And both armor and res are complemented by Dex and Vit. All of these stats are important, and it becomes plain as day when you play a well balanced character.

If your character is imbalanced, the stats aren't going to work as well as you expect them to, and you better be prepared to handle the situations when your balance is tipped the other way.

I'm starting to think that some of this top end gear is deluding people on actually understanding how to play the game through the gameplay itself, and is just letting the gear do all of the playing for them. And this isn't even some overly gear dependent game as people say.
Edited by ActionKungfu#1184 on 11/12/2012 11:43 PM PST
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Posts: 5,103
+1

I used to play a monk but saw the nerf that was going to happen to Seize the Initiative (Barbarians equivalent staying the same with vitality *something you DO want lots of*).

Now I'm playing a DH with the knowledge that if I'm not careful I WILL die. So there is a little more skill because, since you have messed up damage mitigation, you have to be cautious and kite and use certain skills for survival.

Anyways, either they fix dodge and let it dodge everything, or they give dodge an armor bonus as well. Instead of 1 str/armor like barbarians it could be 3 dex/1 armor. So if you have around 2000 dex you'll also receive around 660 base armor. Giving you a little more defense.
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Dex is good against frozen elites. I happen to dodge ice pretty often.
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f this bs

this means wiz can just stack int only and then they can resist all including phystical??

barbs can stack str only and we can now tank all melee/range attacks??

seriously idiots use the dumbest logic to reason their QQ
Edited by Lastfighta#1786 on 11/13/2012 12:33 AM PST
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