Diablo® III

Life After Each Kill - What do you think?

So I believe that the prevailing opinion is that this is a trash stat that nobody would ever go out of their way for -- correct me if I'm wrong. In my guide, I briefly addressed it here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7005435708?page=1#4 in section 1.3 I believe (shameless plug!)

The point that I wrote in there is that I'm wondering whether there is some kind of hidden value in here that might actually make it attractive as a secondary form of sustain (to support LS/LoH). Before you jump all over this post and trash my idea, hear me out.

As I move up MP levels, I've noticed that elite and champion packs are often surrounded by all kinds of white mobs that die easily. With something like 2K Life After Each Kill, our cyclones churned by SW/Cyclone would mean that we'd gain 2K of sustain without even thinking about it while we are attacking the champion / elite monster. Some would argue that this is what life globes are for, but for many monks, we have to move to the life globes in order to get it. This is Life After Each Kill -- be it from cyclones killing monsters halfway across the screen or from the sweeping wind around you.

In some ways, it would almost seem to me that LAEK may actually scale with mob density. Anybody have any experiences about this? I'm curious -- I have not yet tested, but I'd like to try this out at some point.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 11/13/2012 11:30 AM PST
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good for lower mp higher mp is basically worthless. get more LS and you will be ok
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You have to think that ls/loh will outperform it overtime unless you can down 4.5m hp mobs fairly quickly. You'll need to go out of your way in higher mp lvl's to grab trash mobs as well, to sustain on 50m+ elite hp mobs.
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Life after kill and health globes are really is the only thing that keeps my character alive since I have no life steal or LOH. It actualy doesn't work too bad if you're killing white mobs with a high dps character but you better have serenity with elites. Lol.
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11/13/2012 11:31 AMPosted by morbid
good for lower mp higher mp is basically worthless. get more LS and you will be ok

Can you explain why? I'm curious about the thought process. And have you tried this in higher MP, or is this speculation?

I think I forgot to mention this in my original post -- LAEK would appear to be far cheaper than LoH or LS, and the advantage of LAEK is that you don't have to get it on weapons (like LS) but find it on jewellery without having to pay much of a premium for it, IMO.

I would never suggest that LAEK would outperform LS or LoH.
Edited by Nameless#1537 on 11/13/2012 11:36 AM PST
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I'm using it, and its def great at lower MP. My monk is killing quick enough up to MP6/7, anymore the white mobs have more HP and gains are slower.

Like after kill is great for Act3 Stygean Crawlers!
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11/13/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Nicfit
You have to think that ls/loh will outperform it overtime unless you can down 4.5m hp mobs fairly quickly. You'll need to go out of your way in higher mp lvl's to grab trash mobs as well, to sustain on 50m+ elite hp mobs.

I see, so it'd be like you'd have to drag them into the fights, pay no attention to them while you attack the elites, and let your SW/Cyclone do their trick to give you the sustain?
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I'm using it, and its def great at lower MP. My monk is killing quick enough up to MP6/7, anymore the white mobs have more HP and gains are slower.

Like after kill is great for Act3 Stygean Crawlers!

Wouldn't slower kills be good -- it means that your gains are more constant instead of getting all of the benefits in the beginning of the fight and running dry when there are no more white mobs around you.
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sure, it could be a beneficial side stat, but you would certainly not gear around life after kill.

for example, ubers on any higher mp level will render life after kill completely useless, while loh/ls are both effective and necessary.

the only time life after kill is effective is in lower mp when you can kill mobs quickly and gain hp back as the consequence of killing them. however, loh and ls are STILL more effective in lower mps. the difference is in the price of the gear.

think of it as a stat similar to +life from health globes and potions.
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if you can kill mobs in 1 sec on higher mp then this could be viable but mp 7+ you will need to have close to 200k dps+ in order for this to even be a thought. yes i have tryed this and worked perfectly fine on lower mp but 7+ no go. It is a good suppliment tho
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You have to think that ls/loh will outperform it overtime unless you can down 4.5m hp mobs fairly quickly. You'll need to go out of your way in higher mp lvl's to grab trash mobs as well, to sustain on 50m+ elite hp mobs.

I see, so it'd be like you'd have to drag them into the fights, pay no attention to them while you attack the elites, and let your SW/Cyclone do their trick to give you the sustain?


Pretty much unless you can down 50m+ elites fairly quickly. But lok doesn't scale at all on mobs, lok is lok, flat value, so your using health globes and quick kills for sustaining hp, which doesn't work to your favor in higher mp lvl's as a whole means of hp generation... not to mention vs reflect damage, your basically dead before you begin.

But for lower mp runs, lok should be ok, and low mp xp runs seem to be "in" lately, assuming you have sufficient dps and can 1-2 most trash mobs.
Edited by Nicfit#1846 on 11/13/2012 12:11 PM PST
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Obviously it can't hurt, and given how little it is valued I would assume you can get gear for effectively the same with it our without it. In that sense, yes, as a background stat it might be nice.

The trouble is, at this level most of the time we want all 6 properties on every piece of gear to be going towards something more meaningful, so it's a waste of a property on most gear. The other issue is that in MP8+ most of the time you're going to want to do group play, and you don't get the heal if someone else in your party gets the kill.

Lastly, in almost all situations the trash is going to die before the elites unless you deliberately leave them around. In either case you will have stretches where you aren't getting the life on kill back. In general it's not reliable.

Personally I prefer Globe bonus, because then at least you have a very reliable source of 'oh sh!#' healing in the form of a potion.
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Hey Nameless, I recently switched to a lifesteal offhand, its working great on mp8 (have not tested on 9/10).

Just some notes for you: Exploding palm's explosion is affected by lifesteal and thus a single mob dying in a group will basically heal you to full hp on higher MPs where the mobs have more hp.

I'm not sure if the last rune, essence burn, is affected by lifesteal but if it is, then it is even more valuable at lower MPs.
I have not tested the 30% explosion on lower mp levels to see if it makes a good heal.

As for LAEK, its simply not viable at higher mp levels, as other people have already said. Impractical to depend upon. Usually when a mob dies (assuming you solo) you won't need the heal.

If you play in parties, then you are guaranteed less killing blows, further reducing the value of LAEK.
Edited by Sharenis#6818 on 11/13/2012 12:21 PM PST
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Hey Nameless, I recently switched to a lifesteal offhand, its working great on mp8 (have not tested on 9/10).

Just some notes for you: Exploding palm's explosion is affected by lifesteal and thus a single mob dying in a group will basically heal you to full hp.
Could be useful at lower mp levels as well, have not tested.

As for LAEK, not viable at higher mp levels, as other people have already said. Impractical to depend upon. Usually when a mob dies (assuming you solo) you won't need the heal.

If you play in parties, then you are guaranteed less killing blows, further reducing the value of LAEK.


Exploding palm though can be applied quite a bit, you have to wait for the ls, with your skorn if your bored, try out lashing tail kick/wave of light, i've played around a bit, lashing tail is actually decent as a means to recoup life, and can be spammed quite a bit as well + its a near instantaneous heal, i still prefer wave of light over it as for the most part its a much higher heal with ls.

I favor the instant hp vs a prolonged gain. Although palm is nice in group play with the right rune.

edit'
My profile is off as a result of pl'ing someone yesterday as well.
Edited by Nicfit#1846 on 11/13/2012 12:25 PM PST
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Sorry Nicfit, my profile currently shows my MP1 farming bell build.

My usual build is a dual wield hybrid monk running mp6-8 if I'm looking for a challenge (around 800k ehp, 129k dps unbuffed).

Also, its all about proper placement of exploding palm. If you place palm on the weakest mob or the one with the lowest hp and focus on killing that mob, the heal will be faster than palm's 9 second duration.

If you have enough spirit gen, it is doable to maintain exploding palms on all the elites in a pack AND keep MoC:OA up permanently, so when any of the elites die, you get a massive heal.

1 shortcoming is the range of the explosion. Ranged elite packs will most of the time not be near enough to each other for the explosion to reach them.

Edit: Palm's bleed damage also works with life steal if I am not wrong. I have seen ticks from 20-80k per second (not really sure why since I don't use blind for a temporary dps buff) but stacked on multiple mobs, the heal is not insubstantial.

If I am incorrect about the bleed damage part, disregard that. Will have to do more testing.
Edited by Sharenis#6818 on 11/13/2012 12:32 PM PST
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think of it as a stat similar to +life from health globes and potions.


This is how I view it. I have LAEK on my ammy, but it wasn't an attribute I was seeking...just a bonus.
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It's only as good as your kill speed. It keeps me filled up on my mp1 runs
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think of it as a stat similar to +life from health globes and potions.


This is how I view it. I have LAEK on my ammy, but it wasn't an attribute I was seeking...just a bonus.

For me, the advantage over +extra health globe is that I don't need pickup radius to make it effective. The thing with extra health globes is that you need 2 affixes to actually make it work. LAEK would appear to be those two rolled into one. Unfortunately, LAEK is only available on jewellery and weapons, taking up very valuable space in the stats, while pickup radius and health globes are on armor (easier to get).

This whole discussion has been eye-opening and very informative. Thanks to all who have shared your views so far! :)
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Sorry Nicfit, my profile currently shows my MP1 farming bell build.

My usual build is a dual wield hybrid monk running mp6-8 if I'm looking for a challenge (around 800k ehp, 129k dps unbuffed).

Also, its all about proper placement of exploding palm. If you place palm on the weakest mob or the one with the lowest hp and focus on killing that mob, the heal will be faster than palm's 9 second duration.

If you have enough spirit gen, it is doable to maintain exploding palms on all the elites in a pack AND keep MoC:OA up permanently, so when any of the elites die, you get a massive heal.

1 shortcoming is the range of the explosion. Ranged elite packs will most of the time not be near enough to each other for the explosion to reach them.

Edit: Palm's bleed damage also works with life steal if I am not wrong. I have seen ticks from 20-80k per second (not really sure why since I don't use blind for a temporary dps buff) but stacked on multiple mobs, the heal is not insubstantial.

If I am incorrect about the bleed damage part, disregard that. Will have to do more testing.


trouble is that compared to burst dps (flat dps not dot's) the heal can be outperfromed releatively quickly, in a shorter amount of time, especially vs higher hp mobs, 20-80k ticks vs 500k+ ticks that scale with ls and are instant.

Although flesh of the weak (or w/e the name is) helps your party somewhat, you lose the utility (the end tick) on high hp mobs for a 12% gain, i'm sure with enough dps it'll even out.

You can put up 2-3 palms on several mobs in the time it would take someone using lashing tail kick/wave of light to hit 1 key (recouping a burst dps heal, for less spirit) while all the while focusing on one mob. This is more about solo play, though in group play its not without its benefits.
Edited by Nicfit#1846 on 11/13/2012 1:05 PM PST
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Life after kill is great for TR farming on MP0. You can get really high LaK rolls for cheap (3k+ easily), pop your fully buffed clones, stack regen, and TR around the map one shotting everything faster than a WW Barb.
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