Diablo® III

In search of proof - Mp5+ farming

MP0 or 1, strafe build. Can play with one hand and the drops are as good as higher MP's.

Farming MP8 for keys and MP7 for Ubers when mates really want to, MP10 once in a while for the challenge.
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This all sounds alot like the complaining about inferno when the game was released. Not everyone is going to waltz in and do mp5+ just like no one was able to get to inferno and just do it. Slow down, farm some gear, get the stats that these "pros" have and then move up. its a skill/gear/efficient build check. NOT something you or any of us are entitled to just cause we paid for the game.

more pew pew


That's the thing - the DH is sort of capped at MP3 (and maybe MP4) unless you have ridiculously good gear. I don't see how to farm MP5+ unless you're doing what Coolfoolboo is saying. His gear is sick.


Its not capped... OP kind of answered himself in one of his posts. he said he considers efficient to be 12m alk runs.then said that the "pro" he was talking to said he did mp 6 runs in 1-1.5 hours. Takes any other class just as long. if your standard for efficient is 12m runs than yeah... mp5+ isnt going to do it. NO ONE runs 12m alk runs mp 5+ any videos you find where they Fast farm they are doing mp3 or less. It comes down to your standard. i personally think id rather spend more time on a run if it means ill see more legendaries. its an odds game . the odds for that awesome leg are only going to go up if your getting more leg to start with.
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11/09/2012 09:50 AMPosted by Scala
If you watch my video, I did it in 11 minutes.


Im doing mp3. ^^

Tried HA/BL, didn't work too well for me. Sure, trash mobs die faster, but in terms of elites it takes longer. Traps can down packs in less than 5 secs tbh... Running with ferrets + volatile bola + traps works well for me. I think im just so used to these skills that my HA/BL runs are a lot slower.

In terms of waiting for bola? There's sort of a trick to it. You dont wait, you vault. Scatter your shots on different enemies so AoE is maxed, dont just shoot one! If you're facing a huge mob, shoot corner spots of the pack and vault in the mid then shoot there and vault again to the other end of the mob at which time everything is already dead.

Use environment; if an enemy is standing next to a destroyable thing, shoot one at the enemy and then shoot at the barrel. This way you trigger 2 explosions in 1 shot as bolas will explode when destroying stuff. If you dont already know, bola's will explode if enemies die prematurely.

Still stuck at 12mins on my run (mp3). Ill make a video sometimes so people can point out what im doing wrong to break that time barrier. =).

RoV is awesome! 1st time using it since I was below lvl60 dh. lol
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Does that mean I should just keep doing what I'm doing on MP1?


Yes.

And switch back to HA/BL. Bola and spike has no place in the lower MPs. The delay is simply a waste of time.


I like evaisive fire/covering fire for low MP. It hits instantly and in three different directions for some initial high dps. Plus it's got another 1 hatred regen, which is nice. I hardly even use my primary attack, though, as passives allow extreme levels of vault/BL spam (vengeance and night stalker).
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with my gear lv i can kill elite packs in less than 10 sec most of the time
i use hungering arrow and st, considering droping hungering for bola, but i currently have a ha quiver,
with my spike traps they crit for up to 1.2mill a tick, 3 traps with a caltops + a few shots of ha= dead elite pack
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If you have high dps, then ball lightning is all you need to kill basically everything. If you shoot a few ball lightnings and then switch to hungering arrow (spray of teeth), you will kill most elite packs unless they have extra health or are those dumb moonclan occultists. It is the fastest way to kill anything with low health because there is no delay. Spray of teeth is the most reliable high-damage hatred generator there is because you do not have to pray for it to pierce to get good damage per shot - you just need to crit with it. Thus, they are the best skills for time efficiency.

I don't vengeance at all. There is no need.

Thats inefficient then, what MP you pick should not be based on how fast you kill elites but normal mobs, you dont want overkill damage on normals. Then using ball/HA to kill elites is also inefficient coz you will need 10+? shots rather then 2 high damage skills. Finally on low MP you dont need anything except SP and vault from utility rest can be dps . I use vengance coz i dont use generator.
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11/09/2012 08:10 AMPosted by Scala
Your DH has 62560.1 dps.


ya know what, i'm not even gonna let it bother me.. if you honestly think i'm doing less damage per second then you because of my paper dps then...... whatever

lol.. to each their own i guess
Edited by kkmmnn#1654 on 11/9/2012 12:10 PM PST
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Posts: 1,244
hmm, in my first recording I did an entire MP6 Alkaizer run in 20 minutes

I'll see if I can try to shave some time down so I can get 15 minutes - your "efficiency" benchmark

My DPS is only 140k w/ SOJ though, which is a big barrier for me right now lol, haven't changed my main gear since 1.0.3

edit: mp0-1 runs aren't even fair, could prolly do those in ~8 mins lol
Edited by MysticaL#1298 on 11/9/2012 11:35 AM PST
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Im at 200k dps and farm on mp5. Trash is pretty much a joke. The only non elites that kill me are Moonseeds and fallen maniacs. I can do key runs in 12-15 minutes on MP5. With 1-2 of my friends doing 50-75% of my dps, a full a3 clear takes about 2 hours. Im sure I could do it solo in 1.5 hours, or a bit more.

Its not just about dps, but also about your build. I have 3 hatred spenders for full utility in any situation, Bat and vengeance to keep the hatred flowing in. I dont use vault because I dont have legacy nats and without, its a watse of disc. I can take out fallen grunt, shaman, bees, weak skeletons/archer, and other "weaker" packs in 10 seconds on MP5. The higher HP ones take longer.

Im using NT right now just because I get sick of using BL all the time, so I mix it up. NT seems to work better on elites, but isnt as good on trash, so its kind of a wash.
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I have 195k dps with my speed build (tact+ hellfire for xp) and farm MP1 (speed alk run + stonefort in case of key), current profile

I farm keys on MP6, 255k dps (280k vs elites) (max 10mins per run, my record is 6mins..I have about 20 machines)

tried MP2 for speed and it is pushing it. even with 65.5% multishot crit chance, seems I'm shooting too many mobs more than once. if you do an alk run in 17 mins instead of 12mins, well, that 25% bonus for going up one MP isnt worth it

ymmv
o/

edit: when doing my MP1 run, I'm very close to 1m xp/min. alot faster than when I was doing the run in 1.0.4
also, I've been getting at least one legendary per alk run since yesterday (all bad but still)
Edited by Veritech#1882 on 11/9/2012 12:06 PM PST
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My Girlfriend can farm MP5 effeciently. Is 50 Paragon with max Magic Find. You can check out here gear and setup here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/MarthaVader-1406/hero/17074046

Do not have a video of it - but she handles things find solo - with maybe an occasional amulet swap to help offset some reflect damage elites. She usually plays with the scoundrel when playing solo.

I can run MP5 with her fine with my best gear (Wizard) - but it doesn't give me max Magic Find - so when farming for items I tend to stick with MP3 and my max magic find gear.
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add some Life steal or life on hit and increase your attack speed. you'll survive a lot better.
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My monk does MP 7 at a pretty good clip - only 82k dps ATM. Underpowered elites die in 45 seconds - OP elites can kill me up to 2 times and take up to 5 minutes. I'm pretty sure the guys that are running lower MP lvls are finding way more legendaries though I'm sure. MF is not real. MF has almost 0 effect on the items you find. 4-5 legendaries per run is an outragious joke. Even at MP 7 with over 450 MF I'm lucky to find a legendary In an entire act clear. With MF gear and EXP gear I'm certain farming MP 1-3 will yeild the best results for both gold exp and legendaries.
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I farm mp7 efficient and fast. Don't really die at all.Always at Max mf
Edited by TheSacrefcie#1934 on 11/9/2012 12:22 PM PST
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I just switched to traps and went to town in mp7. It was surprising how much higher sustained dps is despite unbuffed dps numbers. It's night and day. Ubers are a lot smoother too.

The one thing that kept me from doing this is it's fricken clumsy. But once you get used to it.. it really is 'stand and deliver'.

I added some HP and extra AR swapping gems and other gear tweaks but the best thing I noticed is skill synergy. Spike w/ echo, Bola thunder and impale impact work amazingly well together.
See mob, toss impale to stun frontman and block others, spike trap him through the stun and unload bolas, rinse / repeat. Popping gloom once in a while, I can (within reason) stand still and unload dps without skipping a beat. My gear is piss poor too compared to most high endgame DH's. (die-hard DW'er)

It's all due to the bola / impact stuns. It's most noticable in the keep depths in a doorway, nothing moves not even elites through the choke point. Stonefort stairways were always a bit problematic but now very little gets through the stun locked mob wall.

Once you figure it out it's miles ahead of the old hunger / cluster setup for higher mp levels.
I even dropped preparation since nightstalker keeps disc up and perfection helps a lot too for many reasons. Dropped bat in prep's place and hatred is a non-issue. (I have 70 disc though so I can burst defense quite a bit)

I still use hunger / cluster for mp3 and below though, since echo spike gets useless when you're one/two shotting mobs. Also I like the old kite glassy style.
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MP5+ is really only efficient for keys/ubers. Exp gains and loot drops aren't increased enough at higher MP to make it efficient. Even for people with the best gear in the world on Diablo progress, I'd be willing to guess 3-4 is more efficient then 5 for them as far as loot/exp goes.
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11/09/2012 12:27 PMPosted by TianZi
MP5+ is really only efficient for keys/ubers. Exp gains and loot drops aren't increased enough at higher MP to make it efficient. Even for people with the best gear in the world on Diablo progress, I'd be willing to guess 3-4 is more efficient then 5 for them as far as loot/exp goes.


4-6 is really the threshhold for effecient farming. I need a good chunk of time and do a few runs to see if mp4 is much faster than 5 and if its worth the 6% MF i get from going from 4 to 5.
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100 Tauren Druid
4610
Posts: 4,963
the mf% returns are not worth it due to the fact you already have a wealth of mf% from paragon and more importantly nv5. those bonuses diminish in effect MUCH harsher due to this

& the the XP returns beyond about 3 start to fall off dramatically.

however, the bonus item is a decent return even up to mp5 and 6, provided you can 2-3 shot trash

a treasure goblin is a good indicator if your DPS is hitting the floor, if you CAN'T kill them, you should go back a level
Edited by zoid#1554 on 11/9/2012 12:49 PM PST
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couple things..... I don't farm anymore..... so forgive me if I'm interjecting in this thread and it isn't what you are looking for. I do some farming runs... but not normal farming like some of y'all do. I do a lot of really quick key runs of getting 5stack and killing everything in my way to the wardens

I've been in your shoes up until recent.

I was running a dual sck Manti with 1097 dps and 88-92 base CD. (can't remember exactly as I sold it).

Even with certain levels of ASI my manti was doing about 1.78-1.83 APS which made it seem faster than some but still was having issues using skills I felt I needed.

I'm moving this weekend ... but maybe next week I can figure out how to make a lil video of it so you can see MP5 isn't so difficult without having 300kdps unbuffed or some crazy number. Most folks can do it if you have the ASI/CC :)
I was using Loaded for bear... tried strafe but just wasn't happy with the results in MP4 or MP5. I felt MP5 was a stretch for me based on the way I like to play the game.

Since then I've changed out some of my gear to go a different route.

1> Replaced 2sck Manti with 1h Calamity with socket. Changing this one piece dropped my DPS down from 214k to 156k alone. Of course I didn't sell off my manti right away unless I was sure this was the right approach for me in my game play.
2> replaced gloves and other items with gear giving me ASI and suffering CD

Looking at my character and putting back on my Arch/Steady aim I'm at over 190k. HOwever I don't usually use SA I like perfectionist instead because I have like 250AR at the present time and about 39k HP. So the added buff of armor/hp/resists is crucial I feel for me over the DPS.

While I increased my ASI I also increased a little my CC and still plan to add a little more whenever I get enough gold for a NAT ring with CC on it.

I changed out vengeance for Nightstalker. With the higher CC Nightstalker starts to shine and you start filling up your disc much faster than 1disc/sec

I'm also now running 2.93 APS which is just shy of the 3.0 APS mark. So using hungering arrow I get off just short of 3 shots per second. With ARCH Passive I get the +10 CC bonus and when I run with my scoundrel I get an additional 3%. All in all I'm at 61% CC with scoundrel and arch passive. Suffice it to say I crit a LOT.

Crits get me over 600k damage at times but average is of course lower than that. Since I'm shooting so much and critting so much I'm consistantly doing more damage per sec than I did with higher DPS and a manticore

Basic math. If you crit 50% of the time and your average crit is similar to mine I'm gonna kill a lot quicker than you because I'm shooting so many more shots than you.

The DPS is one part of the equation.

Remember I said above I have about 39k HP and 250 AR. As a normal DH you end up running from those elites in MP4/5+ because you can take a hit just not many. You count on gloom to be used in "emergencies" or against reflect packs. Then many balance it with caltrops or other disc skills.

Me? I gloom all the time. I come up to a white mob and I pop glooom and basically tank them. I don't have to run and circle around .. and wait fir hatred to regen and and and. I simply just start shooting and let them come to me. I pop some spiked traps at my feet so they blow themselves up and go onto the next pack.

Like all of us I have to leave or move in desc pools, molton, mortor, arcane but not like I did as I used to using a manti. I just side-step... pop gloom when it runs out and keep on shooting.

I rarely have to use PREP. I crit so much It keeps my disc full or close to full. Rare times I may use prep to refill disc is when I use gloom before it runs out or against strange elites (like sand wasps) or the lil pigmy which run around in circles so much and you end up chasing them around.

Having high APS with nightstalker is just as good (IMO) as legacy NAT. Of course not the same. Legacy nat users get the regen as a gear buff and not required to use nightstalker as a passive and can use something else. However I have found no DISC issues at all.

Last but not least. Hatred regen is key as well. I use spiked-traps as main hatred spender. I use the echoing rune with it. I also use strafe:drifting. In case my disc does get a little low or I want to move out of the desc pool I use strafe. This allows me to shoot and run at the same time. Even shooting enemies behind me. It also procs a ton of CC/DISC for me because of my APS.

Last but not least... regarding Hatred spenders .... I have 9.x hatred regen per second when I use BAT. Plus shooting right at 3.0 shots per second myu hungering is giving me another 9 hatred per second while shooting for over 18 Hatred per second. I can depleat my hatred altogether and I have it all back in like 6 seconds

Oh... and regarding DISC ... I only have base 30 disc .. no extra disc on me at this point and disc is not an issue.

Sooooooo Regarding farming .. it is all about what skills you have and are using and how often you can actually use them to take down monsters quickly.

With your manticore you can hit a reflect pack and feel like a God popping ShadowPower and just sitting there shooting... and then when you get low on disc (as I used to all the time) .. you run .. use prep.. run SP.. shoot shot shoot... run run run... setc etc etc.

Me ... I just shoot and keep poping gloom and by the time the 5 seconds is over ... I've refilled the amount I've spent on gloom so it becomes virtaually endless gloom for the most part.

Makes a huge difference when you don't have to run/kite all the time how fast you can kill stuff and farm at higher levels.

Anyhoooooo sorry for the long post... Calamity is the way to go for my way of playng....
Edited by BubbaGump#1297 on 11/9/2012 1:14 PM PST
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That's the thing - the DH is sort of capped at MP3 (and maybe MP4) unless you have ridiculously good gear. I don't see how to farm MP5+ unless you're doing what Coolfoolboo is saying. His gear is sick.


Its not capped... OP kind of answered himself in one of his posts. he said he considers efficient to be 12m alk runs.then said that the "pro" he was talking to said he did mp 6 runs in 1-1.5 hours. Takes any other class just as long. if your standard for efficient is 12m runs than yeah... mp5+ isnt going to do it. NO ONE runs 12m alk runs mp 5+ any videos you find where they Fast farm they are doing mp3 or less. It comes down to your standard. i personally think id rather spend more time on a run if it means ill see more legendaries. its an odds game . the odds for that awesome leg are only going to go up if your getting more leg to start with.


It's capped in the sense that you need the following stats to run very fast and do it within 11-12 minutes:

MP0 - ~70-124k DPS, 450k EHP /w Gloom and not considering dodge
MP1 - ~125-164k DPS, 500k EHP /w Gloom and not considering dodge
MP2 - ~165-214k DPS, 550-600k EHP /w Gloom and not considering dodge
MP3 - ~215-250k DPS, 600-650k EHP /w Gloom and not considering dodge

I'm sure some will say you don't need this great amount of ehp, but I call fowl on that. If you want to tank the worse packs on these levels and never die, you need this ehp. I can't imagine tanking the crap I do with just 150k ehp like people claim.

At 250k dps, I call this a soft cap because most of the top Demon Hunter's in the world only have 285-350k dps. Very, very few have more than that. Monster health just increases so much on MP4+ that you can't out-gear the health pools any longer like you can for MP0 through MP3 - thus you need to do what Coolfoolboo said - become a tank and get up to 1,000,000 ehp. This theory makes all of the sense in the world. And it's what I've been theorizing myself even before I made this post. MP6 speed farming doesn't really make sense otherwise.

Now to address the concern about "efficiency". I don't think you have to achieve 11-minute alkaizer runs on MP4+ to be "efficient". All you need to do is run them in fast enough time that the average # of legendary drops is better when compared to running MP0-MP3 in the same time period.

For example, I think it's safe to say that if you ran MP4 in 14 minutes and MP3 in 12 minutes, it might really pay for itself to do MP4 due to the extra bonus drops. But if it took 25 minutes, probably not.

Figuring out what the absolute best MP level is for your gear level is very important to maximize your efficiency.

At the moment, I'm pretty convinced that my hungering arrow/ball lightning/vault build on MP1/MP2 with my level of gear is about as efficient as I can get, and that's what I'm going to do until I can get 250+k dps and 1,000,000 ehp.
Edited by Scala#1900 on 11/9/2012 3:15 PM PST
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