Diablo® III

How are non nat legacy DHs doing in high MP?

So I roll a full nats legacy set and I'm doing just fine up to MP8. Of course, die a couple times. I'm not a pro and gear isn't THE best. That aside, I was really curious as to how the new nat set DHs are doing in MP7 or higher? They offer wayy better stats I know, but how is survival in ubers for example? Do u guys die couple of times in fights?

ps - I am in no way mocking new nat set DHs =.="
Just really curious how it fares in high MPs =)
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without disc(gloom) they need a lots more hp like 50k hp+ and 500 allresis to stay alive.
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To be honest with night stalker, I easily keep a 100% uptime of gloom. I run +60% life on backup plan for "oh crap" situations, rather then for the disc.
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From what I've seen in Uber runs and in general new Nats offers higher DPS and the difference in survivability is pretty small. With things like Night Stalker and 50%+ CC seems like its pretty easy to generate Disc over a long period of time. I'm sitting at only 32% CC and I can be in gloom almost indefinitely with a trap tank build in MP 7...

Also, if you can afford a full new nat's set then you have to have pretty sweet gear overall since it's not a small investment, so you aren't going to be a full-on glass cannon at that stage of gear progression.

Personally, I'm jealous as heck of anyone who has EITHER set, because I'm just a poor DH who doesn't have enough time to farm amazing loots like the rest of you...
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how come it easy , i try it , and it always run out of disc for some reason . :(
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Op, u need more vit and ar. Gloom is not everything.

It takes a whole lot more mitigation to sit under descrate/plague and allow multiple arcane sentries to bypass you on higher MPs.
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Another thing to consider is you don't always need to keep it up constantly, if you lay your spike traps + echoing blast while in the final moments of gloom, they can sustain you for a moment more before you need to put gloom back up.
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And DHs is not about 4pc nats. There are 13 items that determine that capability of a DH gear-wise. Each and every item is vital to the build. The best nat set in the world will be wasted if it is coupled with 9 other weak items.
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I am currently about 150 res all, 34k hp, but I can afford to permagloom and manage to survive "most" of the dmg thrown at me in mp8. Just 1 hit though. Get 2 shot and I'm dead. I have the same experience as Quantukiem with Night stalker. I tried running with 51.5 crit chance, yet I can't perma gloom because sometimes there are the !@#$ moments that I would have to SS during a shadow power to avoid death, and especially in fights with elites where there are swarms of minions. I don't seem to be generating anywhere near enough disc
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11/14/2012 08:09 PMPosted by RATEDX
I am currently about 150 res all, 34k hp, but I can afford to permagloom and manage to survive "most" of the dmg thrown at me in mp8. Just 1 hit though. Get 2 shot and I'm dead. I have the same experience as Quantukiem with Night stalker. I tried running with 51.5 crit chance, yet I can't perma gloom because sometimes there are the !@#$ moments that I would have to SS during a shadow power to avoid death, and especially in fights with elites where there are swarms of minions. I don't seem to be generating anywhere near enough disc


I have been there and i know why. The problem is not with the disc.. it is the mitigation. it is this mitigation that widens your comfort zone so that you don't need perma gloom. Basically, you need to "enhanced this comfort zone". Trust me on this.

You need to allow yourself to use gloom "casually" and not "anxiously". This is the trick.
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Yeah I agree with cool on this one. I say I can perma-gloom with Night Stalker, but technically speaking I don't use it as much as I could because I'm usually fine in terms of survival in groups of mobs even on MP 7. I think if you worked on raising your eHP you'd notice it start to change.

If you don't want to use a fancy calculator just go for 400 AR / 4000 Armor / 40000 HP. Having a bit of every type of defense helps mitigate a lot of that incoming damage. Higher is better, but don't sacrifice too much DPS to gain that extra defense.

Think of it this way...Fights in higher MPs last a lot longer. You need high DPS to shorten the fight, but you ALSO need enough defense to take a few hits so you're not kiting around making the fight even longer. You have to find that balance between defense and offense. Glass cannon simply doesn't work as well on higher MPs. Even if you're a 250k DPS unbuffed beast you're not 1-shotting thing on MP 8+ so you need to be able to take a hit otherwise your DPS drops to zero as soon as your red globe drops to 0.
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I have been there and i know why. The problem is not with the disc.. it is the mitigation. it is this mitigation that widens your comfort zone so that you don't need perma gloom. Basically, you need to "enhanced this comfort zone". Trust me on this.

You need to allow yourself to use gloom "casually" and not "anxiously". This is the trick.


this. On higher MP there's hardly any problem with disc regen as monsters have higher HP, you can get more critical hits on them therefore earning more disc. I've run mp7-10 ubers and mf; running out of disc is very rare. I only have 30 on those times.

A big plus on the Legacy Nat's set is it gives you a free slot on your passives, you can just loose disc regen passive like vengeance/nightstalker.
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i use nightstalker and bolashot bitter pill and i dont remember running out of disciplines...
btw i'm a dual wielder so much faster aspd compared to bow and xbow users...

nightstalker/bolashot works best with calamity+spite (or any good rares) or calamity+dml combo.. it will regenerate your discipline fast..

you can check my profile for my build...
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Just fine, only have Nat's 2pc now after stacking Vit and AR over Disc but then I have a WW Barb tanking for me so I can just stay at range. We can group up 2-3 packs and tank fairly decently and rarely die, only time things get messy is if an RD pack gets involved, then it becomes chaos.
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I think legacy nats in higher MP is best if you've got 50k+ hp and 300+ all resist to go with it. I'm only just now really feeling able to just sit in the middle of everything and spam away with attacks without risking a random explosion, having hit that myself. The trick is getting decent hp and all resist... without losing all your dps too. I'm at the point where any upgrades I can get are ... wicked expensive!
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Im sitting at 50k hp with 550 AR using new nat set. Able to survive mp7. Night stalker is really handy. And i do agree with Revo, seldom run out of disc, provided you use them cautiously. :)
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i used to have a leg nat set as well. i've made the jump to new nats and let me say, its a world of difference. the gameplay is totally different. playing w the new set, requires a lot more skill; no disrespect to leg nats users. however, i've also managed to skyrocket my ehp a !@#$ ton and gain about 30k dps and 30k hp as well. if you can afford a good/decent new set, i'd say to give it a shot. worth it imo.
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non legacy user here. MP10 is complete faceroll with nightstalker/gloom/spiketrap/sentry/perfectionist leading the way, its just slow w/ only 210kdps (SoJ and using archery)

gear now is MP1 XP gear

usual gear = 210kdps (no passives) 190k w/ SoJ, 450ar, 4700armor, 62khp
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I loved legacy nats but it's not as big of a deal losing it as I thought it would be. MP8 isn't a problem for me, although I prefer to run MP6 solo just for the speed. The only issue is reflect damage if I'm not paying attention....bola/traps can be a pain to get the life steal going but that is just a build issue and not anything to do with nats as I don't run out of disc often. I really really miss infinite vault though =p

@chandaddy - totally true, the first few runs were brutal without legacy. The disc regen had become a crutch for me and I had to work out my disc management. Feel like a much better player now though.
Edited by Vãgisil#1781 on 11/14/2012 10:02 PM PST
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Non-Legacy user here.

It's about wisely managing your disc, and not spamming gloom the moment an elite pack come into view.

I am only using a +10 disc quiver, and I cannot deny, even with prep, I occasionally find myself out of disc, but that rarely ever results in me dying.

If anything, my deaths are caused by carelessness rather than lack of disc.
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