Diablo® III

How are non nat legacy DHs doing in high MP?

Im only with 30D.. doing fine in mp7. :). just need more ehp.
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Not all of us can afford to hit 400k dps and also maintain crazy eHP. :)

I know with my budget, my dps, my eHP, I need to gloom very often in MP5+. I wish I could afford 400k dps while maintaining very high resists and eHP, but I can't. So I think for higher MP levels I'm better off with legacy nat's. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I did a 100M budget which is in my range for new nat's and it wasn't that much of an increase in dps and eHP. I wonder if I would be better off selling my legacy set and gearing in a better new set, but I'd hate to take the risk that it would be detriminental to my play.


I don't know what the gains were when you did the comparison, but it sounds like you made a wise decision to stick with your Legacy set. The switch to new Nat's is only worth it if you can gain a good amount of dps and more eHP than you would have if you activated gloom in the Legacy set (to mitigate the loss of perma-gloom). However, perma-gloom is still possible with Nat's Solace in some situations - but I won't get into that here, that's a discussion for a different thread.
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Top 20 DPS New Nats user here, and honestly MPs higher than 5-6 I only do with groups, because it's just unbelievably inefficient farming anything higher than MP1-2.

MP1-2 farming is for the utmost efficiency in terms of xp/hr. and mobs killed/hr.

MP9-10 farming is only fun in a group as a challenge but otherwise, it's incredibly inefficient and the rewards are just not worth it at all, IMO.

All of my crazy drops have come from MP1-2 Act 3 farming, including my amulet.


your gear is insane.
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So I roll a full nats legacy set and I'm doing just fine up to MP8. Of course, die a couple times. I'm not a pro and gear isn't THE best. That aside, I was really curious as to how the new nat set DHs are doing in MP7 or higher? They offer wayy better stats I know, but how is survival in ubers for example? Do u guys die couple of times in fights?

ps - I am in no way mocking new nat set DHs =.="
Just really curious how it fares in high MPs =)


what a ridiculous quote from someone who has 44k elite kills and 233k DPS " not pro gear"

if that is not pro gear can i please ask you

--------- do you have any spare gear you would not mind letting go----------
i need help im a single parent and have very little time to play
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The truth is, with the nerf of gloom in this very patch, you need much more ehp, to get the same benefit out of it.

Discipline is no issue at all, because we have nightstalker.
Used properly, with either grenades or cinder arrow, u can get the blue bubble full faster than any legacy nat user. I run high mp even without preparation, and can do an Alkaizer Run at mp1
in about 8 Minutes (10 million xp)

@ 40 discipline ;-)

Here is a short example video (mp 8):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GF3rkDwvA4&list=UL
Edited by Jadawin#2705 on 11/30/2012 8:13 AM PST
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I have tested both the new nats and Leg Nats, in my experience, the legacy will always out-shine the new. If you want a well-rounded DH, meaning you can last in solo and group games, the legacy nat set is the way to go. With other setups you are having to reserve skills to replenish or manage the loss of discipline. With the legacy set you can focus on dealing out the dps. I know people talk about face-tanking every mob, but unless you are running in lower mps (0-4), or in a group with cm, then you will have to kite at some point. Also without the legacy, you will have to have some means of replenishing your disc. In turn, decreasing the dmg output. The Demon Hunter class is all about dps. The longer you can put in that dps into a mob, the more value you hold in a group. Again, this is completely my opinion, but if you want to be the best all-around DH, I believe the legacy is the easiest choice, though a pricey one :)
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I too can keep golom up 100% of the time without legacy nats. But that's just if I only use gloom right as it fades and don't over spam marked for death like a goof.

I do fine in groups, but I imagine solo'ing MP10s... meh why.

Get an SoJ for ubers.
Edited by nirgon#1278 on 11/30/2012 9:51 AM PST
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11/30/2012 09:28 AMPosted by MrDarcy
I have tested both the new nats and Leg Nats, in my experience, the legacy will always out-shine the new. If you want a well-rounded DH, meaning you can last in solo and group games, the legacy nat set is the way to go. With other setups you are having to reserve skills to replenish or manage the loss of discipline. With the legacy set you can focus on dealing out the dps. I know people talk about face-tanking every mob, but unless you are running in lower mps (0-4), or in a group with cm, then you will have to kite at some point. Also without the legacy, you will have to have some means of replenishing your disc. In turn, decreasing the dmg output. The Demon Hunter class is all about dps. The longer you can put in that dps into a mob, the more value you hold in a group. Again, this is completely my opinion, but if you want to be the best all-around DH, I believe the legacy is the easiest choice, though a pricey one :)


You don't need Legacy to facetank. I do not kite...at all, not even in mp10. I have extensive experience with both sets (I had BiS sets of both) and I can tell you that both are viable, just different. It comes down to play style. The key to success with the Solace set is that you have to itemize your stats beyond what perma-gloom gives you in L4N. If that's not achieved, then yes, in that situation, I would concur that Legacy might be ideal.
Edited by Beast#1449 on 11/30/2012 10:02 AM PST
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11/30/2012 09:28 AMPosted by MrDarcy
I have tested both the new nats and Leg Nats, in my experience, the legacy will always out-shine the new. If you want a well-rounded DH, meaning you can last in solo and group games, the legacy nat set is the way to go. With other setups you are having to reserve skills to replenish or manage the loss of discipline. With the legacy set you can focus on dealing out the dps. I know people talk about face-tanking every mob, but unless you are running in lower mps (0-4), or in a group with cm, then you will have to kite at some point. Also without the legacy, you will have to have some means of replenishing your disc. In turn, decreasing the dmg output. The Demon Hunter class is all about dps. The longer you can put in that dps into a mob, the more value you hold in a group. Again, this is completely my opinion, but if you want to be the best all-around DH, I believe the legacy is the easiest choice, though a pricey one :)


From your build, I believe you are not aware of the world of top DHs. Their overpowering stats basically overshadow the constant need of disc, while enjoying superb dps. They still need gloom yes, but hardly perma-gloom.
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Not all of us can afford to hit 400k dps and also maintain crazy eHP. :)

I know with my budget, my dps, my eHP, I need to gloom very often in MP5+. I wish I could afford 400k dps while maintaining very high resists and eHP, but I can't. So I think for higher MP levels I'm better off with legacy nat's. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I did a 100M budget which is in my range for new nat's and it wasn't that much of an increase in dps and eHP. I wonder if I would be better off selling my legacy set and gearing in a better new set, but I'd hate to take the risk that it would be detriminental to my play.


Don't do it unless you have the capability to go back to legacy. I tried this switch and personally i dont like the slow pace. A personal choice.
Here's a suggestion, buy a Nat's sight with 6cc or a Nats boots with huge dex and wear it with your other legacy nats to test out your playstyle without the disc regen. If you get the hang of it, at least you have one piece already in place and then can go buy the others slowly piece by piece.
But I have to admit, seeing 350k dps and high ehp is really nice to have. But unfortunately I cant translate it to my playstyle so far. You will be forced to use certain passives/skills to recoup the disc drain. Im not saying saying I won't ever but with the grind that I'm already facing to level, I need every bit of speed I can get :)
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I recently switched from legacy nats to new nats.

I gained about 45k unbuffed dps and 200k ehp, but I bought a decent new nats set and decent mempho. However, I made more selling my legacy set than I spent on my new set.

I started out running slightly lower MP levels to get used to it. I could run MP7 with legacy nats with few issues. I now can run MP7 BETTER with my new nats than I could with my legacy nats. The reason is simple, my dps is higher, my ehp are higher, and yes I can perma gloom with new nats with nightstalker and my DPS is higher even without steady aim.

However, if you want to run new nats I think you need to have good eHP and quite honestly nightstalker is MUCH more effective if you are standing still and tanking because with legacy nats you are gaining disc ALL the time, with nighstalker you need to be hitting targets. So, if you want to go new nats get your eHP up, run perfectionist and nightstalker (until you get crazy eHP) and maybe even guardian sentry.

I am much happier with new gear than my old legacy nats and I had a reasonably decent set. The only downside is literally the loss of infinite vault and honestly I only notice it when I'm key farming and trying to zip around zones to find the key warden. If you have a good budget for good gear I'd recommend going with new nats and mempho.
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11/30/2012 10:14 AMPosted by coolfoolboo
I have tested both the new nats and Leg Nats, in my experience, the legacy will always out-shine the new. If you want a well-rounded DH, meaning you can last in solo and group games, the legacy nat set is the way to go. With other setups you are having to reserve skills to replenish or manage the loss of discipline. With the legacy set you can focus on dealing out the dps. I know people talk about face-tanking every mob, but unless you are running in lower mps (0-4), or in a group with cm, then you will have to kite at some point. Also without the legacy, you will have to have some means of replenishing your disc. In turn, decreasing the dmg output. The Demon Hunter class is all about dps. The longer you can put in that dps into a mob, the more value you hold in a group. Again, this is completely my opinion, but if you want to be the best all-around DH, I believe the legacy is the easiest choice, though a pricey one :)


From your build, I believe you are not aware of the world of top DHs. Their overpowering stats basically overshadow the constant need of disc, while enjoying superb dps. They still need gloom yes, but hardly perma-gloom.


Yes, at some point your gear hits a level where you have high enough eHP and dps that you no longer need the disc regen of legacy nats and at that point you're just simply better off with more dps and eHP and if you still need the disc regen you can use nighstalker which if used properly will regen your disc just as fast as legacy nats. You should see the way my disc fills up when a bunch of mobs stand on my traps and my traps and bolas are going off.

Also, someone also asked about ubers in higher MP levels. I can do ubers in MP8 and not die.
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"World of Top DH's" :) Funny, I would think most players are not in that realm (unless you have deep pockets ;)). I could swap my helm for a mempo or Andariels and be at 300k dps. It's not hard to get A LOT of dps with a DH, the point of a DH is damage/time and a little support (mark of death.) DH is not supposed to be a solo role (though it can be done.) If you are having to skill your character with passives that manage your disc, rather than allowing for more dmg to be done, you are loosing out on max dmg over time. The legacy nats allows the user to be more focused on his dmg. Yes, the legacy nat set makes it more difficult to reach that super "Top World" dps, but you can't do the type of dmg expected from a dh if you are kiting or dead ;) Plus you can't do the dmg expected if your skills and passives are confined by replenishing defensive abilities.
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11/30/2012 11:35 AMPosted by MrDarcy
"World of Top DH's" :) Funny, I would think most players are not in that realm (unless you have deep pockets ;)). I could swap my helm for a mempo or Andariels and be at 300k dps. It's not hard to get A LOT of dps with a DH, the point of a DH is damage/time and a little support (mark of death.) DH is not supposed to be a solo role (though it can be done.) If you are having to skill your character with passives that manage your disc, rather than allowing for more dmg to be done, you are loosing out on max dmg over time. The legacy nats allows the user to be more focused on his dmg. Yes, the legacy nat set makes it more difficult to reach that super "Top World" dps, but you can't do the type of dmg expected from a dh if you are kiting or dead ;) Plus you can't do the dmg expected if your skills and passives are confined by replenishing defensive abilities.


Clearly you have missed out on the fact that you only need ONE passive to get perma disc. Vengeance or Nightstalker.

But hey, whatever fits your boat, so long as you are in your comfort zone with Legacy.
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I actually went to the dark side and got a new nats set just for keys/ubers (still using legacy for xp/item farming).

w new nats, got over 5k armor and 300k allres (and it was cheap too, I think ~40m for the set total), w over 310k dps against elites w the soj

o/
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"World of Top DH's" :) Funny, I would think most players are not in that realm (unless you have deep pockets ;)). I could swap my helm for a mempo or Andariels and be at 300k dps. It's not hard to get A LOT of dps with a DH, the point of a DH is damage/time and a little support (mark of death.) DH is not supposed to be a solo role (though it can be done.) If you are having to skill your character with passives that manage your disc, rather than allowing for more dmg to be done, you are loosing out on max dmg over time. The legacy nats allows the user to be more focused on his dmg. Yes, the legacy nat set makes it more difficult to reach that super "Top World" dps, but you can't do the type of dmg expected from a dh if you are kiting or dead ;) Plus you can't do the dmg expected if your skills and passives are confined by replenishing defensive abilities.


Clearly you have missed out on the fact that you only need ONE passive to get perma disc. Vengeance or Nightstalker.

But hey, whatever fits your boat, so long as you are in your comfort zone with Legacy.


True. But it won't be unless you have a target to shoot at so you can crit or have globes on the floor. If you are always running around vaulting then its a different story. No one's disputing that it's working for both setup. Both can do mp1-mp10. But it's really down to play style. Use whatever fits your personal play style. I might not have 1m ehp but I can do mp10 fine and tank when needed and be a crazy running DH when needed as well. It's all about having fun. Both have its merits
Edited by Ring#1441 on 11/30/2012 12:40 PM PST
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It's all about managing your disc pool. I'm just a mediocre-geared hybrid balanced dh. I have two nats cloaks that I switch between, one with 51 all res and one with 120 vit. I use my vit cloak for speed runs in mp2/3. For mp9 I switch out my cloak, a few skills for spike traps-echoing blast, bola shot thunderball, and perfectionist. With those changes i can face tank elites with perma gloom even standing in desecrate pools (of course I move) and never run out o disc. I don't even have the +20 disc from the set. I got a soj with +9 disc, that's it.
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Those passive you're talking about maximizing your dps over time are replaced in new nats by higher stats. So essentially it's the same thing, old nats needs dps buffs but no disc passives, and new nats doesn't need dps buffs only one disc passive.
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To me this was a wonderful way to put it ;) I have been wrestling with the switch to the new nats, but couldn't honestly see the value to it. I think I have pretty high dps for a legacy user, and you guys are correct when saying it's about play style, for now I think I like being the fastest class around ;) Vaulting like a maniac. May make the change in the future.
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