Diablo® III

killing myself on reflect damage

oops I made a wrong statement earlier, phys res does in fact reduce reflect dmg. Not based on dmg type.
11/02/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Dirtpoor
Get 1k LoH and 1k HP regen a sec.

because 1k life regen will stop 50k+ dmg/sec from reflect right?

LOH is not working like it should, blizzard keeps nerfing the proc rates of skills. So a lot of builds have like 90% reduction in their LOH due to proc rates.

Life steal works a bit but it is only aviable on weapons and only helps you survive a second or two longer

with my 107k unbuffed dps+soj i can 1shot myself if my bears hit the entire reflect pack. That is not fun and goes heavily against build diversity.

11/02/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Zoid
RD doesn't force you to take damage either, damage gets too high, you STOP SHOOTING for a few seconds and let your defensive cooldowns come back or drink a potion

waiting for cooldowns is NOT fun, when i can kill any elite without trouble in seconds. I dont enjoy running around unable to do anything offensive, because i can 1shot myself.

Also how do you stop shooting when 1 hit can kill you? with good dps you hit so hard that it is instant death without invulnerability cooldowns. Hitting just 1-2 mobs of the pack is quite hard with strong AOE spells

Let me put it another way, without something like RD, there is NO POINT to stacking any more defenses past the oneshot point. You get your 3% lifesteal, you get enough health, armor and resistance to not die instantly, then you stack damage like crazy. Eventually you get so much damage with your lifesteal that you can facetank anything. This is precisely what we see with Barbarians, since they can get so much more lifesteal. Watch some WW Barb videos sometime, you'll see the health dip to half or less and then back to full several times a second

i can tell you that is for sure not going to happen with WD's.

-Without decent survivability the pets are pure junk and die vs white trash mobs

-They got powerfull close range spells and if you cant take more then a few hits, your dmg output is greatly reduced due to not beeing able to place these AOE's perfectly

A 150k dps glass cannon wd that gets 2shot, will do less dmg then a 50k wd that can almost tank. Because the 50k dps WD can stand next to a pack and spam bears and hit them all for up to 700% weapon dmg. While the 200k wd is running around trying to hit them with bears.
On top of that the 50k wds pets can tank everything and are near impossible to kill
Edited by Nanaki#1926 on 11/3/2012 1:32 AM PDT
they should make it so half the time reflect is about half of what it is currently and half the time it would be about the same or maybe a little bit stronger
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Except for the increase in damage through MP, now I don't know how that interact with reflect but I do know that in MP7 with 950 AR (after prismatic), 5,7k armor, 150k ish paper doll dps and 2,7% I barely break even with reflect, if I drop prismatic and go down to 750 AR I kill my self in seconds.

Now there is some room for improvement gear wise but to negate MP 10 we're looking at having AR on each and every item except weapon and OH, this while having a fair few items with bonus armor. Not to mention that this is just to break even with the reflect, any damage besides the reflect needs to be fully avoided as there is no room to tank.
After reading this thread in its entirety, I believe objectivity may better illuminate this issue for those whose bias prevents even-handed analysis. Quite frankly, there's a bit too much pontificating and not enough hard math regarding, beyond other figures, the 'reflects damage' return ratio. In addition, it needs to be clear if the ratio is static or dynamic amongst monster types and difficulty/MP levels. Perhaps this has already been provided; if not, it needs to be, because much of the wildly varying sentiment about 'reflects damage' could boil down to poor optimization relative to act/difficulty/MP level.

Perhaps these discrepancies simply originate from the poor implementation of a theoretically sound affix (no pointed fingers!). Blizzard Support, we need your input! :)
11/02/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Nanaki
the difference in damage between corpse bomb and zombie bears is GIGANTIC.

if it's gigantic then change skills till you can handle RD and stop complaining like a little kid about it.
The OP has about 30k life and 90k damage. I think the damage is too high compared to life that reflecting it will really hurt.
Wizard here, with 40k more DPS than you, no lifesteal or LoH, and doesn't use Prismatic Armor.

RD is fine. Stop being terrible.

Lol...tbh i didnt know wizard can crit anything :>
PS: i have read that blizzard employees do NOT test inferno just hell mode
so they do not even know what is broken...

I heard they "DOUBLE IT"
Edited by FrozenTS#2718 on 11/3/2012 4:43 AM PDT
When i attack i die, 3-5 times. The tiny lifeleach doesnt help at all. It´s aggravating.
Did i mention other affixes ?

If this the way you want ppl to play the game you might as well rename it to permadeath.
Interesting... reminds me of Iron Maiden in D2

just that Iron Maiden was only vs mele damage.

In my oppinion reflect damage should have never been depending on how big is the damage of the player, but should have been set stable always the same.

Or not ever existing.

OR at least the monsters that had reflect damage should have been VERY DISTINCTLY VISIBLE than the others (like they to be painted in dark strong red) so the player to see them easy that they have reflect and be carefull with them!
Edited by FrozenTS#2718 on 11/3/2012 5:01 AM PDT
11/02/2012 12:32 PMPosted by Lylirra
- Hydra and Sentry are technically "pets" (so to speak), so whenever we make the change to no longer allow pet damage to reflect back to the player, they'll be included too.

Good news I guess. However, sentry and hydra have better damages than typical pets (let's say WD garg for example). So with end game dps you can actually kill a pack of mob using mainly this spell. It is way slower and it only work at lower MP level but still. I don't know how I feel about the idea of people getting these two spell only to deal with Reflect damage. It is kind of gimmick you know. And I prefer an healthy gameplay.

11/02/2012 12:32 PMPosted by Lylirra
- If we do elect to move forward with having Reflects Damage be a duration-based affix, we'd also want to add a new visual for whenever RD is active.

I believe that one is really cool. One thing that I really don't like in the current state of the game is that at some point, affixes on elite pack does not really matter. At higher MP level elites are just a huge HP pool to kill and at lower you usually kill them too fast to even notice the affixes anyway. Reflect damage was kinda unique because it added a need to check the affixes before initiating the pack.

If reflect damage become duration based the damage reflected should be higher than it is at that point. If the debuff is active half of the time the damage should be a little less than twice the reflect damage we know, because the burst aspect add more danger. A visual effect telling us : "hey you want to analyse the situation before attacking again" will add some depth to the scenery. That is a reason why I hugely prefer shielding than more health design wise. You can easily beat it if you made the right decision at the right time.

Ok but what are the cons against a duration based RD ? If the cast is instant, it will be hell of deal on hardcore. I know you cannot balance the game around hardcore but it is still something to keep in mind. I'd like a 0.5 warning duration before the debuff actually become active.

On softcore, because the damage will be more bursty it would be more or less a nerf to hp per second. Depending on the duration it will be a marginal buff or a nerf of certain class. Let's say it perfectly match demon hunter gloom duration (5 second)... Well then it would be nice for DH but a monk with high dps and low defense would have to pop serenity (3 second) and be kinda passive for the 2 remaining second. It is not a big deal but it definitely not fun from the monk perspective. However I believe it is the right path to go.

It is nice to see blizzard still keep patching/balancing/adding content to his game for a long duration after the release. Thanks!

Have fun, and see you in game. :)
I have tried going with 1900 loh.


stop saying loh. wizard spells do not have the coefficients to offset reflect damage
I play on europe server.

Dps: 305k buffed
Res: 1000 on archon mode (i use archon build)
Life steal: 4.5% (1.5 blood weapon + 3% wand)
Armour: 6000 on archon mode

If i use these configurations, i'm alive. Changed from 2.80 wand to 3.0 and now works better but i'm still nearly to be death.

I cannot increase my dps cause my loh/resistance doesn't give me enough defence.

If monsters don't hit me, i can be alive, if not, i'm death with reflect damage and the problem is much more increased when i use stone of jordan (i've 6% elemental + 30% on elites) and/or using shrine with dps increased.

In europe its much difficult to speak with developers so please, do something, continue talking about this problem. I'm a wizard and i've many problems about this, and the same problems had Wd cause gargantua and other pets don't take themself the damage reflected, but it goes on wd.
Here we go again!

Let's nerf something because softcore players cry about it. Funny thing is, it's not even a big deal when they die because its softcore! I don't see the justification for 99% of softcore players complaints.
Here we go again!

Let's nerf something because softcore players cry about it. Funny thing is, it's not even a big deal when they die because its softcore! I don't see the justification for 99% of softcore players complaints.

and I don't see the justification for playing hardcore ever. you are playing a mode where all your gear can be lost, in a game about acquiring gear. talk about counterproductive.
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.

mmm...I thought they also removed "dodge" from reflect damage as well as reduce the proc of life on hit for majority of skills. So another words reflect damage has more times to hit you regardless of the amount of stats to dodge and healing on life on hit is reduced by half. Seems like recipe for imbalanced? In diablo2 reflect damage/Iron Maiden didn't effect range classes which I think help balance the fact that range class have low hit points to begin with.
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