Diablo® III

killing myself on reflect damage

Reflect is a lazy way to make the game challenging.

It would be nice for the game to implement creative and challenging monster abilities.
Also Blizzard forgot about one thing.

The more health mobs get - the more times you have to die on RD to kill them (3-5 times on mp10, without even being hit by the mobs at all)

or get like a bunch of health orbs 10 or more to sustain one elite lol

PS: i have read that blizzard employees do NOT test inferno just hell mode
so they do not even know what is broken
... (inferno life steal is only 20% effective)


if that's true... that's OUTRAGEOUS... I don't believe it tho, it's just too dumb to think devs don't fully test things.. but oh well.. with the ToC thing and hellfire "bugs" LOL... wouldn't be much of a surprise now, would it? haha =/
Edited by Geraki#1760 on 11/3/2012 12:22 PM PDT
11/01/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Jay
We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Interesting... reminds me of Iron Maiden in D2


Lol.. whenever diablo 3 implements something from diablo 2.. the always gets better. sorta makes me laugh
Lylirra,

If you make reflect damage turn on and off, not all builds can stop dps on a dime. While I would love to see ww barbs nerfed, if you do it this way, you'll never hear the end of cheesy mechanics and Blizz not thinking ahead.

Granted, reflect isn't a problem for ww Barbs now. But if it gets buffed, and turns on and off, they'll think its complete cheese when they die because they couldn't stop their dps. Either the damage will have to be trivial so they don't have to worry about it (as it is now, with their 12% life steal + superior mitigation), or you will have to give them a free pass and treat their tornadoes like pets, or they'll whine endlessly about how they are dying to things they have absolutely no control over.

The first two possibilities doesn't solve the problem of barbs being able to steam roll right through reflect, while presenting significant challenge to most other builds -- in fact it makes it worse. The final possibility, where ww barbs are effectively nerfed because they can't stop dps on a dime, and don't have single target abilities, might be enjoyable for me to watch, but I just wanted to give you the heads up they'll perceive the nerf as an unintended consequence of Blizz not thinking ahead, which will create even more whining than just directly nerfing them.

The crux of the problem is some classes and builds generate life very easy, barbs with 12% life steal, and some specs with spells that hit many times a second to spam life on hit. They are able to regen to full life almost instantly. Balancing reflect, which such vast discrepency in life regeneration is the problem -- you should consider throttling how much health can be regained a second imo, then you can balance reflect and deal with the other problem of chars being unkillable without tremendous spike damage all in one fell swoop.
Edited by RageQuit#1835 on 11/3/2012 1:11 PM PDT
Use Blood Weapon instead of force

/thread

Are all glass cannons really this dense?


no, you're the dense one. why should I HAVE to use blood magic? I should be able to pick whatever the hell magic weapon I want, thanks. and you have a funny definition of glass cannon considering I have plenty of res and + armor. in fact I bet my all res is higher than yours.

oh but your cookie cutter build doesn't have trouble with RD. Meanwhile I get punished for doing something different. that lines up perfectly with blizzard's goals. it must be real easy to criticize things when you can't see past the tip of your own nose. good thing blizzard isn't buying your !@#$.

and I already addressed the loh thing. I have 900 right now(which does nothing, I'm getting rid of it soon because it's worthless), and when I went up to 1850 loh it still did nothing. loh is useless after all the wizard coefficient nerfs. gotta get my sick 2% blizzard coefficient! or maybe my 20% disintegrate one.
Edited by Jars#1772 on 11/3/2012 1:06 PM PDT
The solution are the health globes... as I understand they drop in some percentages of the elite's life... so there are less health if the mobs have more life... so if it drops health globes based on the basic health instead of the current health percentage it would drop Health globes at the same rhythm as MP0 with no health bonus...
I have 900 loh and have no problems witn reflect damage but i play up to mp6 on my wiz
Also Blizzard forgot about one thing.

The more health mobs get - the more times you have to die on RD to kill them (3-5 times on mp10, without even being hit by the mobs at all)

or get like a bunch of health orbs 10 or more to sustain one elite lol

PS: i have read that blizzard employees do NOT test inferno just hell mode
so they do not even know what is broken
... (inferno life steal is only 20% effective)


if that's true... that's OUTRAGEOUS... I don't believe it tho, it's just too dumb to think devs don't fully test things.. but oh well.. with the ToC thing and hellfire "bugs" LOL... wouldn't be much of a surprise now, would it? haha =/


PTR servers don't count. Hellfire ring bug was squashed during PTR and never made it to the live servers.

Blue post stating Blizzard concurrently tests with the PTR, a very good read: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6794350883?page=5#82
11/03/2012 01:05 PMPosted by torinsoul
I have 900 loh and have no problems witn reflect damage but i play up to mp6 on my wiz


You use energy twister....u have no problem with reflect because u use a spell that hits many times a second to spam loh. The same one that hits so many times a second, it lets you perma freeze. Reflect pigeon holes you to that build.

If you tried to run other builds, like arcane torrent, you'd kill yourself in a blink with those resists and that amount of health regen. To compare my arcane torrent build has 1100 resists, 5.7k armor, 1400 loh, 2.8 LS, and I still lose health attacking reflect, which is fine ...i pick up the health globes, but its a dang high gear threshold for lower level wizards to try something else.
ahh well, people just want to go full on pure dps without having any weaknesses, great build diversity...
hell lets get rid of all defensive skills!
11/01/2012 09:55 PMPosted by Lylirra
How about just changing it so RD can be dodged like pre-patch and all problems solved....duh


You could never actually dodge Reflects Damage in the live game. The bug only existed in the PTR version of 1.0.5 (which was fixed before we released the patch), so the "we fixed it" line never should been included in the live patch notes. It was, however, correctly included in the PTR patch notes.

I can take the heat for that one.


I think he means use dodge as a flat damage reduction (law of large numbers considering the number of ticks would make dodge the equivalent to damage reduction). Maybe if it's too powerful, make it a fraction of effectiveness, say 50% or so
Couple of follow ups:

- Hydra and Sentry are technically "pets" (so to speak), so whenever we make the change to no longer allow pet damage to reflect back to the player, they'll be included too.


Can you please go over to whoever made this decision and tell them that I love them? Thanks.
does anyone know when pvp is going live?
There is an explanation! on Diablo 2 on Chaos Sanctuary Barb's just get Pwned with Iron Maiden, and ranged users (usually Amazon's) ruled the game, "Someone" is a Barb lover so; he is just taking his revenge. I think its time to lvl up a Barb, that's the only option.
Edited by ATM#1906 on 11/3/2012 2:36 PM PDT
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


ffs, best news i have ever heard coming out of this company
11/03/2012 10:42 AMPosted by EnourMousTim
thread too long, didn't read it all. I have a question though and hope someone can answer it.. I thought Monster Power Levels were for those who could handle it? If you couldn't... shouldn't you lower it or not even do MP1? I'm confused, we finally have options and since some people can't handle it, they should nerf that too? I don't even understand the reason for MP anymore. MP8-10 RD destroys me, but patience and proper use of things like gloom/smokescreen/serenity/diamond skin/loh gear/ls weapon keep me alive. For those of you complaining, can't you just do a level you're able to handle? MP levels are there for a reason, no?


if 1 affix on any random monster keeps people from doing higher MP. Do you really think it is a gear/skill issue?

Monsters barely do any dmg to me on MP4-5 and excluding reflect there is nothing i can not steam roll. But if i am not carefull with every elite that pops up, i can end up 1shotting myself on any reflect mob

11/03/2012 11:12 AMPosted by MasterJay
You guys need to rethink your builds, but sounds like Blizzard is going to cater to you bads who fap to your sheet dps number that hardly means a damn thing in actual combat while getting no survivability whatsoever.


isnt the idear behind build diversity that builds should over all perform the same? Reflect makes certain skills absolut mandatory and even 3ll on weapons is not enough. Before you say every build has a weakness, reflect isnt just effective against high dps builds it completly owns them.
It owns them harder then any other elite with any possible affix combo, even 2-3 MP's higher the other elites are still weaker than reflect
Edited by Nanaki#1926 on 11/3/2012 3:06 PM PDT
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