Diablo® III

killing myself on reflect damage

Something needs to happen... If I shoot an elite pack that has RD and I crit in the 300-400k range on my first shot... I kill myself. It has made it so that I have to stop.... see if they have RD... and then engage... it slows down the game big time.
BLIZZARD JUST MAKE IT SO THAT IT IS MORE NOTICEABLE ON MOBS FOR THe WHINERS REFLECT DMG IS FINE AS IS DONT LISteN TO THESE NUBS
100 Pandaren Monk
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Posts: 192
11/01/2012 09:30 PMPosted by Advocate
There's a strange issue with reflect damage and some other affixes. Mostly, reflect damage only hits for a small portion of my damage. But when its combined with the health link affix, the damage reflected shoots WAY up. There are a couple others I've noticed slight variations with, but that's the worst offender by far.


This is probably due to the fact that you are doing 1/3 of normal damage thus doing far less leeching than normal from your loh/ls, but I agree that with other elemental affixes the reflect is quite rediculous ( from being able to just whirlwind through them to dying nearly instantly if I did the same)
Posts: 8,273
How to win at Reflects Damage:
Buy amulet with over +900 LoH
Swap to amulet when fighting (or after you die once)
Win.

You can also get a socket weapon with high LoH and socket in a purple gem. It works amazingly well also. Could also find one with LL. It doesn't have to be uber dps, just enough to keep you alive while you actually do DPS.

The "community" just seems to be too stubborn to take some basic steps to circumventing RD.

The attitude I see is "my build should work for all things all the time without the need to change strategy". As an example, I met a WD just last night (110k dps) that had issues w/Reflects. I gave him (yes, gave) an amulet I found with +964 LoH and suggested he remove Piece the Veil from his passives. Suddenly... no RD issue, even with bears.
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Can I offer some suggestions? (#3 is my favorite)

1a. Maybe have reflect damage only affect you when you are above 50% health

1b. If not 1a, maybe have it so reflected damage cannot administer a "finishing blow", leaves you at 1 HP always and something else has to kill you.

2. Have reflect damage go down in effectiveness the same as life steal does for different difficulties (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno). It could just be monster power instead (0 through 10). Have the decrease scale with monster's total HP.

3. Have reflect damage be calculated not based on DPS alone, but instead how much of the monsters HP is being reduced and also respective to your characters HP pool. For instance if a monster has 3 million HP it will take dealing 3 million damage to reduce your life by 100%. If the monster has 100 million HP, it will take dealing 100 million damage to that monster to reduce your life by 100%.

These values could be changed or looked at including monster champion packs and rare packs. For instance if an entire rare pack combined has 500 million HP and you have 40k HP, it would take dealing 500 million HP of damage to the entire pack to remove your entire 40k HP pool. (This could fix problems like HORDE affix combined with REFLECT DAMAGE where you shoot an archon beam at the pack and one tick goes off killing you instantly -- unless you kill the entire pack in one tick this cannot happen).

Taking resistances and armor into account can prevent players from one shotting themselves too, even if they are in lower difficulties just blazing through content. Or you can just make it 50% or 75% of their HP pool instead of 100%. The monsters will be attacking too and using other affixes as well, so seems fair to me.
Edited by Zed#1489 on 11/1/2012 9:52 PM PDT
11/01/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Jars
Your dps is too low... 5.1% life steal isn't working as well.


increasing my damage would help with reflect damage?

you sure about that?


Life steal is tied to your damage output, hence why the standard gearing tip for LS in inferno is only get LS if your dps is 80k or higher, at lower damage levels the 5.1% after the 80% inferno nerf to life steal is a pittance compared to life on hit values, most calculations show that it is only after doing 80k dps does LS compare to LoH.
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11/01/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Taxian


Interesting... reminds me of Iron Maiden in D2


I cursed Iron Maiden in D2 a lot, but it was a semi-skill tester (at least until you had certain builds or gear). If you were a physical damage character and ignored it, you were dead. I personally think it created some interesting gameplay situations.

The key is: I rarely cursed the GAME when i died to it, but rather cursed MYSELF for not noticing it in time.


Oh...IM....the melees bane.

I remember once helping a friend level with my godly 97 Zealot on normal mode in the Chaos Sanctuary. When they saw me die....they busted out laughing, really giving me a hard time about it. Iron Maiden was so powerful that an insignificant normal white trash enemy killed my 97 pala. It was quite funny. The Death Penalty....not so much.
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Awesome.

What about just having a max amount of damage that can be reflected before it just shuts off?
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


THANK YOU! Reflect damage being activated periodically is a great solution!
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Just lower it to 10% blowback and only periodical cast-up, and I think it'll be fine.
Edited by BurningRope#1322 on 11/1/2012 9:43 PM PDT
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11/01/2012 09:38 PMPosted by badb0y
NOOOO, don't cave to these pussys.


If we feel like it's a change that will be better for the long-term health of the game, then we'll move forward with it. We certainly appreciate your thoughts and feedback on the matter in the meantime. :)

11/01/2012 09:30 PMPosted by onnow
I just wish reflect dmg monsters have an aura or something so I can identify it before getting myself killed.


I'll pass on the suggestion.
Here is a WISHFUL thinking suggestion from a monk...I would LOVE, really love if Dodge was once again useful against RD...may give me some incentive to use MoE again...and I would also love if SW didn't factor in the RD being dealt back to the player...it's like punishment for having it on when I run into a RD pack until I can just run away and let it die so I can fight the pack without the SW procing RD back at me.
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power. Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear. That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


How about just changing it so RD can be dodged like pre-patch and all problems solved....duh

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


that would be great
If you are looking at reflect...enrage timers? MP10 Belial requires 1.25M DPS...more difficult for a tank than dealing with reflect on a dps.
Lylirra,

Reflect is not only tougher on some classes because of increased monster health pools, but also because in some cases, like wizards, our ability to mitigate has also decreased, i.e. the energy armor nerf. Moreover, the other armors wizards are encouraged to try out (e.g. storm / ice), were never used by wizards before 1.05, and offer no mitigation versus reflect.

Also I would suggest that a much better solution than making reflect flip on and off, is just to make the the benefit of life steal a lot less versus reflect mobs. You could reduce the amount of damage reflect does, and at the same time reduce the benefit of life steal against these mobs. Right now some classes, like barbs, don't even realize mobs have reflect because they are carrying 3x as much life steal as others, in addition to innate bonuses to mitigation.

Reflect is a fun affix to deal with...challenge wise. A lot of us are simply asking to make it balanced.
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KEEP REFLECT AS IS! Its fun an interesting to watch my barbarian friends kill themselves! It evens the playing field...
This does nothing for Monks and Demon Hunters who rely on dodge, why can we not dodge this while barbs have no problem? Completely ridiculous that our main damage mitigation does not protect us from this.
Blizz, all what you need just balance damage of monsters vs your healing possibilities.

If you want high damage at mp 10, okey but give us powerfull stats to beat this level (sure only on high-end items). If you want give high-reflect damage at higher mp level, just give us higher lifesteal. There isnt any science. Better remove nerf of lifesteal in inferno, but make higher diversity of lifesteal stat on items, between low items and high-end items.
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on the same note, give Wizzy back ice armour please :( 50% nerf killed my old build :(
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