Diablo® III

killing myself on reflect damage

We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Love the idea!!
66 Gnome Rogue
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We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


It is challenging for *some* players, but I don't have an issue with reflect damage.

Please stop nerfing game to make it easier everyone when it is only a few that do not know how to play.

Please and thank you.
Edited by Asmodaeus#1438 on 11/2/2012 7:58 AM PDT
11/01/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Lylirra
NOOOO, don't cave to these pussys.


If we feel like it's a change that will be better for the long-term health of the game, then we'll move forward with it. We certainly appreciate your thoughts and feedback on the matter in the meantime. :)

I just wish reflect dmg monsters have an aura or something so I can identify it before getting myself killed.


I'll pass on the suggestion.


One idea is that the reflected damage have a cap. That will mean that those people with high damage still has to get some def and life steal, but it wont mean that getting some nice new weapon suddenly kills them.
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11/01/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Jay
We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Interesting... reminds me of Iron Maiden in D2


If you do change it where it is only one periodically, please make it where it is noticeable. You could put a column of red light when the monster has reflect damage on. Kind of like red would be a sign to either stop dps'ing or change up how you dps.


And stop playing. Yeah, that's not a fun way to deal with a game.


This is the stupidest argument ever against RD.

Other affixes FORCE you to stop attacking. I run a bears build and bears do not go through walls. So if I run into a set of blue wallers, I end up spending more than half the time just running around trying to hit them. It's not a deadly affix in the least, but it is my personal most-hated affix because it's so annoying.

Same thing with Mortar. I have to spend a lot of time running around dodging mortars and during that time I am not DPSing. Should we remove that as well since anytime I'm not shooting at something I'm "not playing"?

It's going to get nerfed though, you guys win. Just like you always win with these crybaby nerfs.
Edited by Zoid#1297 on 11/2/2012 8:10 AM PDT
We know Reflects Damage has been a little more challenging for some players in this patch, so we've been reviewing feedback regarding the affix pretty closely since 1.0.5 released. The actual values for the stat haven't changed at all and, in general, it seems like the issue for players is really just related to increased monster health thanks to Monster Power.

Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there's a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success -- at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.

That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


I don't think this is correct. It really feels like higher MP levels the amount of reflected damage is actually going up. Meaning, you need more and more lifesteal %, LoH, and/or resist all to counter the affix. Is this working as intended? It seems reflect damage is not just increasing from damage dealt, but also is increased by whatever monster power setting you have chosen.
11/01/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Jars
Your dps is too low... 5.1% life steal isn't working as well.


increasing my damage would help with reflect damage?

you sure about that?

there is a breaking point with LL, remember the DPS are just average stats, if you do not "enough" damage the LL doesnt work really that well compared to LoH which depends more on your attack speed.

With high crit damage and high "base" damage (the minimum you do) LL works very well, but you have to get to that point.
the reflect mobs are just fine , whats the point of playing if everything is too easy to kill, you just need to have good gears that's all, i wish they never remove the invulnerable mobs affix and some stuff before

anyways i hope i can suggest put a quick button for changing weapons. so that we can change to loh ls if needed and dps for faster killing
How about allowing dex-based classes to dodge the damage again? The only main-stat that provides no damage mitigation for this affix.
THANK YOU BASED BLIZZARD
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i think reflect is fine as it is, but i can spam diamond skin so i might be biased.
11/01/2012 09:26 PMPosted by Lylirra
For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player.


It has always bugged me a little bit from a consistency perspective that you get reflect from pets/hydras/turrets/etc but you do not get loh/ls. Just from the idea that, if the logic is, you get the RD because you're the damage source, why don't you get the loh/ls? If you don't get the loh/ls because the damage source is a pet/hydra/turret/whatever and not you, why do you get the RD?

So I think this is probably an ok change from my perspective, even though reflect doesn't really bother me that much (and I like that I have to deal with various things. I like challenge.). I also like the idea of giving some kind of visual cue that a mob has reflect.

Have you considered doing it the other way, making pets/turrets/etc proc loh/ls rather than making them not proc rd? I guess that might make things too good against non-RD mobs.

Also, I really hope the blue comments I've been seeing that this is not about people complaining, but about the dev team actually thinking there's an issue, are true. From the perspective of reading the boards, it looks a whole lot like people complain, then change happens. The people complaining are a self-selected set, so care needs to be taken that their feedback is treated appropriately (in that change should happen on the basis of hard data and 'is this or is this not what we really want the game to be' and not 'people are complaining, let's make a change'. There's a pretty good article on why I read a while back that was titled something like 'Why you should ignore your users' - that title is wrong, and the article wasn't really about what the title stated anyway, but it's basically a matter of people tend to complain more than they compliment, guaranteeing that any change made, good or bad, will have a lot of complainers in feedback forums. So complaints don't necessarily mean there's a problem, they should be taken as 'let's look at this and see if there's hard data that backs up the complaints, and take action accordingly').

People complained about invulnerable minions and it got removed. People complained about inferno being too hard and it got scaled down multiple times (not saying all of these were unjustified). People complained about keywardens and they got changed. People complained about reflect and it's getting changed. It looks a whole lot like a pattern of 'people complain about x ... change x'. I am waiting for the big complaint where the blue post says basically 'we have decided based on internal data etc. etc. that no change is needed'. I haven't seen it yet. It's possible I missed it as I don't come to general that much.
Edited by Anomie#1322 on 11/2/2012 9:11 AM PDT
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It is challenging for *some* players, but I don't have an issue with reflect damage.

Please stop nerfing game to make it easier everyone when it is only a few that do not know how to play.

Please and thank you.


It is not. Explain me where the challenge is at. Getting very narrow gear to deal with it? Well, you can keep it. RD being out doesn't break your build.

So, stop making the game a pointless gear check for everyone because you don't have a problem with it. Want more "challenge"? Play higher MP levels.
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This is the stupidest argument ever against RD.

Other affixes FORCE you to stop attacking. I run a bears build and bears do not go through walls. So if I run into a set of blue wallers, I end up spending more than half the time just running around trying to hit them. It's not a deadly affix in the least, but it is my personal most-hated affix because it's so annoying.

Same thing with Mortar. I have to spend a lot of time running around dodging mortars and during that time I am not DPSing. Should we remove that as well since anytime I'm not shooting at something I'm "not playing"?

It's going to get nerfed though, you guys win. Just like you always win with these crybaby nerfs.

Other affixes do not FORCE you to take damage. You can avoid mortars. That can present at least some "challenge". Damage coming back at you and you can't do anything about it? There's no "challenge". There's "get this gear". It's freaking stupid.

It's good that we win. Logical feedback always does. Baseless protests never do. It's not our fault you don't understand the problem.
I've dropped 2 meteors on a pack of RD mobs and 1shot myself before. Pretty much just use crystal shell now to negate RD and only attack when I have it up.

It's not so bad, but it seems kinda silly when a single affix can do that.

I'd hate to try and balance DPS with HP/Def and LS at MP10 while still not taking an hour to kill a single elite pack.
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there is a breaking point with LL, remember the DPS are just average stats, if you do not "enough" damage the LL doesnt work really that well compared to LoH which depends more on your attack speed.

With high crit damage and high "base" damage (the minimum you do) LL works very well, but you have to get to that point.

You're not making any sense. Both LL and LOH work per hit. What does attack speed have to do with either?

If your damage per hit goes up, but LL stays the same, you take MORE damage from RD. Same with LOH, but because LOH doesn't scale, LL "looks" better at higher DPS.
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the reflect mobs are just fine , whats the point of playing if everything is too easy to kill, you just need to have good gears that's all, i wish they never remove the invulnerable mobs affix and some stuff before

anyways i hope i can suggest put a quick button for changing weapons. so that we can change to loh ls if needed and dps for faster killing


Says the dude with top gear on one class.

There's plenty for you to do still. Get other classes to MP10. Play hardcore.

Still want more "challenge"? Swap specs. Go full tank or full glass cannon. Stop asking for the game to be centered around top gear only.
That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we'll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We're also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that's definitely not yet set in stone.


Do us all a favor: set it in stone. Please.
Thanks for the feedback. The reality is that reflect damage isn't just problematic for people who try to tackle higher MP. People gear up for higher MP and when going back to lower MP can pretty much PLOW through all content with a specific build designed to maximize efficiency at lower MP. Yet if for a second they weren't playing complete attention, they could easily kill themselves in a volley or two from RD packs even at the lowest possible difficulty where you expect no challenge.

Now just to clarify I can deal with RD packs just fine and I understand I'm paying for my own mistakes when I die to them, but there's a huge disconnect between the flow of low difficulty gameplay on 95% of the monsters vs when encountering a Reflect Damage pack. I think that's a hint that Reflect Damage requires serious re-evaluation so that the challenge provided by that particular affix is more on par with other affixes at any difficulty.
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To me it seems like RD isn't balanced correctly.

It either doesn't challenge someone at all, or is going to slaughter them.

I play a barb, I don't even notice RD mobs.

Every other class on my list? Dead before 50% life on mob depending on MP
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