Diablo® III

Sokahr the Keywarden (Act II) Issue

Let me begin by saying this is a balance issue I observed, please don't mistake this as a "QQ please nerf Sokahr the Keywarden" thread.

My observation: the difficulty of the three keywardens are not even close to equal. In my opinion, the act I keywarden is designed to be neutral against both melee and ranged, the act II warden is designed to be anti-ranged, and the act III warden is designed to be anti-melee. Next, being a Demon Hunter does in fact bias my opinion on which is the strongest but I have several key points to discuss.

Act I warden: Molten, Teleporter, Jailer, Triple Fireball Attack.

Act II warden: Missile Dampening, Vortex, Teleporter, Mortar, Reflect Missiles Attack.

Act III warden: Frozen, Teleporter, Illusionist (removed), Fast (removed), Ice Breath Attack.

Observation 1) Why does the Act II warden have more abilities than the others?

Observation 2) With the recent nerf to the Act III warden (reduced damage, removed Illusionist, removed Fast) why wasn't the Act II warden nerfed?

Observation 3) Reflect Missiles does full damage (attenuated by Armor and Resistance) which is not like Reflect Damage which only reflects 10% of the damage done. Example: Bola Shot > Volatile Explosives hits me for 25k+ per bola reflected after Armor (4k), Resistance (450), SP>Gloom (35% DR), Sentry>Guardian Turret (15% DR) and I have 170k dps. While I can dodge some of the attacks, dodging all of them is not feasible with all the other effects going on (Vortex, Mortar, Teleport, and other enemies).

Observation 4) Not all classes have the same number of viable attack options for the Act II warden. Demon Hunters only have a few attacks which can penetrate the Missile Dampening: Evasive Fire, Multishot, Companion, Caltrops, Spike Trap, Cluster Arrow (non-Cluster Bombs rune).

Now for my personal suggestion: Blizzard, please consider adjusting some parameters for the Act II keywarden. The warden itself does not need to be damage- or health-nerfed however I feel that either the Missile Dampening or the Reflect Missile ability needs to be reworked, perferably the latter.
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I agree.
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There's a sweet spot as a ranged character where you can stand with the Act 2 warden on the edge of your screen and pummel him and he won't come at you. Sure it takes longer as the ranged attacks get dampened, but I've actually found him to be the EASIEST warden as a result of this strategy- I find him, run back and then start tossing orbs and missiles into him. Piece of cake.

Now, if someone could tell me why I haven't gotten the plans to drop from the Act 4 warden after 6 attempts on MP 3-4, that would be awesome. I'd like to craft a ring. :P
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Does wardens always have same affixes? Ive always used echoing blast spike trap against them. Beastly bombs work also I guess... put gloom on vault near, launch beastly bombs, vault off.
Edited by Lyriikka#2367 on 11/2/2012 11:06 AM PDT
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11/02/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Triumph
There's a sweet spot as a ranged character where you can stand with the Act 2 warden on the edge of your screen and pummel him and he won't come at you. Sure it takes longer as the ranged attacks get dampened, but I've actually found him to be the EASIEST warden as a result of this strategy- I find him, run back and then start tossing orbs and missiles into him. Piece of cake.


I too have killed the warden this way a few times; however, I consider that to be an exploit and will be very likely be patched in the future if more players resort to it. What is going on is that the enemy is so far away (upper corner of screen) that it does not register "aggro" and it just stands there idly without doing anything. This is analogous to the tree in Whimsyshire (you know which one) where a player could get ponies stuck on one side of it while pummeling it to death due to a pathing error (the ponies could not figure out how to go around the tree).
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You fail as a DH if you dont us BL against the act 2 keywarden. You can either shoot him from off screen til hes dead, or hop inside the dome, hit gloom, and fire off BL til gloom is up, then hit gloom again. Any DH worth a snot knows the A2 keywarden is a joke.
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11/02/2012 11:07 AMPosted by hellmonkey
You fail as a DH if you dont us BL against the act 2 keywarden. You can either shoot him from off screen til hes dead, or hop inside the dome, hit gloom, and fire off BL til gloom is up, then hit gloom again. Any DH worth a snot knows the A2 keywarden is a joke.

SShhhhhhh!!!
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Using Ball Lightning is an option however it shouldn't be the only option. Why must a class use a specific certain ability to easily defeat a target? I don't use Ball Lightning personally but I agree it is very useful for this. I don't want to have to adjust my skills just to hard counter one single mob in the game.
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Then get up on him and face tank him. Not every build is going to work in every situation, unless of course youre a WW barb. I change builds between farming and ubers. If you dont want to change builds when farming this 1 key, then just suck it up. There are plenty of ways to easily take any of the wardens down.
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11/02/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Iria
the act I keywarden is designed to be neutral against both melee and ranged, the act II warden is designed to be anti-ranged, and the act III warden is designed to be anti-melee.

"designed"? ...i think u give too much credit.

11/02/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Iria
Observation 3) Reflect Missiles does full damage

i fight him as DH too - bola DH in fact - and this is 99% if not 100% of the problem, imo.
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I kinda agree that it is a bit too much anti range, But every one plays barb now days so very few will care.
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use BL; seriously it hits him like 100 times a ball. If you can get him to stand still you can stack 10+ BLs in his field and kill him in seconds.
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I guess one simple way to fix the issue would be to make it so either:

A) The spinning reflect missiles attack no longer reflects missiles.

B) The spinning reflect missiles attack knocks projectiles away but those knocked projectiles cannot hit the player back, or at least not for full strength.
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He's fun, and the A3 warden is just a sad husk of his former self. Hate to see another nerf, it really makes the game lose it luster if the challenge is gone.
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Act 1 warden also has knockback i believe?
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Oh look another thread asking to Nerf everything that poses a challenge. . .

Act3 Warden became a Joke after so much QQ from noobs, Little Frogs in the Fields of Misery are scarier than him. Now please leave the other wardens alone, Act2 already is bugged and can be killed easily, it should be fixed. Act1 Warden should be Buffed, he's pathetic and weak.

You know what should happen? Bring back Act3 Warden abilities, that's what.
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Just do what I do as a DH. The damping missile slows the speed of my elemental arrow (Lightning Ball) So if you run in right beside him, active gloom and start firing you will find he is dead rather quickly. I have had 3 elite packs following me and I still did what i say above and didnt die.

Because the arrows are moving so slow they hit the monster many many times and a direct result of that is healing (If gloom is activated).

Has anyone else had it happen where they "kill" him and he doesn't die. Just keeps standing there taking infinite amount of damage. Doesn't attack any more but also doesn't drop items??
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I'd just be happy if they increased the time between his whirlwind/mortar spam. Right now, my solo tactic is basically find him, run in and getting him spinning, count a bit, then start toward him before he finishes to then Gloom and spam some abilities. When I've done MP games with some friends, there are times where it just seems like he doesn't spinning due to their abilities occasionally CCing him, thus all I can really do is tag him with MFD and then run around like a headless chicken because I'm constantly being mortar bombed.
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11/02/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Iria
e act II warden is designed to be anti-range


I checked, and I see this is an old thread but...

Just died to this PoS twice and decided to Google search him to see why he was so nasty for my DH. Agree with this thread completely -- either nerf this guy, OR buff the other two Wardens so they aren't so conspicuously easy compared to him. Sometimes I wonder if Blizzard playtests at all...

Now, I'm well aware that it's possible to beat the crap out of A2 Warden by simply staying out of range of his aggro and pelting him, which it is possible to do; in this way you can beat him without him even attacking you. That's a little gimmicky however.

I have no problem with there being boss monsters that are actually a challenge. In fact, I wish more of the bosses were this hard. The thing that gets my goat is that Sokahr is so much nastier than the other Wardens it stands out as poor balance.
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