Diablo® III

Hall of Godly Barbarians temporary thread

update, thanks.

Hall Score: 23286.369648276

DPS Score: 124.34537
EHP Score: 92.7372
Sustain Score: 1.2772806093711
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.275
Misc Score: 1
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sick. thanks man
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Any news on when the "new formula" will be up ?
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Tbh I find this whole thread kind of a joke.

Mainly because a whole bunch of high ranked players are being forced to use what I would describe as "defensive passives" and don't play optimally to deal maximum possible dps.

In short. Most high ranked players on these kind of threads:

1. Do not have enough sustain. (sometimes even EHP for that matter)
2. Do not use the brawler passive, or know how to use brawler effectively.
3. Use Frenzy/Maniac, but don't play well enough to maintain its 5 stacks permanently.
4. Use abilities on their followers to increase sheet dps but not combat dps.
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@Det0x

I'm waiting for Tomaka to update the calc before I test it.

@Uberjager

Who specifically on this list do you think is overrated?
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@Det0x

I'm waiting for Tomaka to update the calc before I test it.

@Uberjager

Who specifically on this list do you think is overrated?


Not into specifics, speaking in general here. Alot of players would drop Lifesteal to 3 on gear for more stat dps (Or EHP for that matter) and then using bloodthirst as a passive. It gear locks them because the moment the difficulty gets ramped they have to completely regear items with lifesteal and weapons are one of the most expensive items to switch to lifesteal for.

Overstacking EHP is also pointless, because survivability is = Life generated - damage taken.

I see people with stormshields and witching hours. Seriously?

In short, threads like these uplift players who focus on gear for rankable stats, not proper synergy with skill setups. And they end up with pretty looking barbs that cost more but are less efficient in combat.
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If they drop LS on gear, the formula penalizes them heavily. Sustain is a very important element in the formula that can double someone's score, or even higher when the new formula rolls out.

Unless you give a specific example of a person who is overrated, I'm afraid I can't take your comments seriously.
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I cant talk for the "high ranked" guys in this thread, but iam using my normal farming gear when i do the "calculation".. (using 300 spear)

I have a 160str + 50phy res + 80 allres + 9 ias + 45 cd witching hour and a 1100 dps axe with 120str + 100vita + 85cd + socket i could change into. But i feel like would be like cheating.

With my ~1mil EHP i manage to survive just fine with only 3% lifesteal.

*edit*

My new score:

Hall Score: 58535.008214893

DPS Score: 211.66823272 (my 48% throw 300spear should give me higher dps)
EHP Score: 104.74925
Sustain Score: 1.3261437660988
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.39
Misc Score: 1.155

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/det0x-2856/dtx/432203
Edited by Det0x#2856 on 11/16/2012 6:56 PM PST
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If they drop LS on gear, the formula penalizes them heavily. Sustain is a very important element in the formula that can double someone's score, or even higher when the new formula rolls out.

Unless you give a specific example of a person who is overrated, I'm afraid I can't take your comments seriously.


We'll have to see the new formula then.

But my point still holds for

11/16/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Uberjager
In short, threads like these uplift players who focus on gear for rankable stats, not proper synergy with skill setups. And they end up with pretty looking barbs that cost more but are less efficient in combat.


http://www.twitch.tv/google337/b/340236249

Apologies in picking you out google. But you're the only one with a video.

9:35 onwards. at 300k dps he takes 50 seconds to clear an elite pack with avenger, no extra health and no life link (in short, easiest pack of all time)

Time his trash clears, not short either.

(I'll look around twitch for more videos)
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http://www.twitch.tv/acrimony1561/b/339450401

Acrimony, apologies on picking yours out as well but you're also the only one with a video.

Seriously? Rend at higher MP levels? Rend's efficiency is bad, mainly because the DPS is capped at 180% per second (thats with lacerates 900% over 5 seconds).

Overpower's killing spree not only buffs overall dps, it can also be spammed at a minimum of once per second, I have instances where I can cast 2 per second and it doesn't require me to stop at all.

Throw weap, throw... weap? ._. Throw weap is great if you're ranging, but at the defensive stats you have you shouldn't even be ranging. Your EHP and sustain is enough for you to go balls deep, Frenzy is a better option. Heck, even Bash is a better option as it doesn't gear lock you to a specific setup. Also, No Escape passive? Get out of here lol. That's worse than Bloodthirst.

Currently with your current setup, you're running at approximately 60% of your possible max efficiency.
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Google has 5.4% LS and Acrimony has 6% LS. So it's not their gear that you're criticizing, but their skill selection.

My formula doesn't account for skill selection and is skill neutral because trying to measure skill selection is madness. My formula only accounts for gear and paragon.
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Google has 5.4% LS and Acrimony has 6% LS. So it's not their gear that you're criticizing, but their skill selection.

My formula doesn't account for skill selection and is skill neutral because trying to measure skill selection is madness. My formula only accounts for gear and paragon.


Acrimony's gear setup is fine. I'd like to contest his echoing fury purchase (although its understandable why he bought it, he has really bad IAS without it) and the fact that he overstacks AR beyond an optimum point but his gear setup is good. I like his gear. I just don't like how he sets up his skills.

My point is about how gearing and skill choices go hand in hand.

Therein lies the crux of issue. Gearing in D3 is a fine balance of gear and skill setup.

And sad to say, the most efficient skill setup requires you to gear in the way that is countercurrent to how people gear to boost rankings as a result, so many of the "top barbs" end up gearing this particular way.

Edit: Also notice in my points I was not mentioning lifesteal or survivability for google. I was remarking that at 300k dps, his clear speed is much lower than someone with 2/3 his dps but running the right skill setup. Of course if you want me to raise a point on his survivability I can also do so, his stream has so many vids of him getting owned by reflect damage.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 11/16/2012 7:23 PM PST
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Acrimony is boycotting the forums right now, but he told me to post for him. He says that he enjoys having a gear set that is so versatile that he can try many different approaches to the game. He doesn't care about maximum efficiency because that can be boring. Acrimony's language was a little less polite than that. :)

Speaking for myself, it sounds again like you're criticizing Acrimony and Google's skill setup, not their gear. They have fantastic gear which is what my formula is measuring. Just because it doesn't measure up to your standards of efficiency isn't the formula's problem.
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Acrimony is boycotting the forums right now, but he told me to post for him. He says that he enjoys having a gear set that is so versatile that he can try many different approaches to the game. He doesn't care about maximum efficiency because that can be boring. Acrimony's language was a little less polite than that. :)

Speaking for myself, it sounds again like you're criticizing Acrimony and Google's skill setup, not their gear. They have fantastic gear which is what my formula is measuring. Just because it doesn't measure up to your standards of efficiency isn't the formula's problem.


I can imagine acrimony being less polite :P

But yeah

11/16/2012 07:39 PMPosted by Celanian
Speaking for myself, it sounds again like you're criticizing Acrimony and Google's skill setup, not their gear.


Ties in to this:

11/16/2012 06:23 PMPosted by Uberjager
In short, threads like these uplift players who focus on gear for rankable stats, not proper synergy with skill setups. And they end up with pretty looking barbs that cost more but are less efficient in combat.


They have fantastic gear indeed. They just don't have fantastic gear/build setups.

Its like how people would measure survivability based purely off EHP.

Now that we know, survivability is a sum of two things, EHP and what you call Sustain.

Ultimately, your thread aims to calculate the most efficient barb. And I recognise that. But what I'm criticizing is how the thread goes about doing this, that it bases it off gear alone and not how it the gear synergies with the player's setup.

I.e. for throw barbs. Their sustain and EHP should carry lesser weightage but Dps more, same with their movement speed.

For WW barbs. You have life sustain, but you haven't factored in resource sustain. How your formula doesn't recognise that damage optimization doesn't factor in skills that give huge % damage bonuses (which is massive at dps of 150k unbuffed in progress, check out some of the top asian PVP barbs, they use a sword mainhand just because the 15% bonus from weapon master beats 10% crit)

Yea, to factor all these in would be tough. It would be complex, it might drive you up the wall trying to figure out how to effectively calculate this.

But it would give a more accurate representation of being Godly. Which is to be the most efficient at killing stuff.
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Considering that people can and do change their skill setups all the time, it's pretty much impossible to create a formula that reflects skill setup.

Godly isn't just most efficient at killing stuff. Someone who has 100% LS for example isn't any more effective at killing stuff than someone with 12%, but the first person is certainly more 'godly'. Similarly, someone with 10M EHP doesn't really survive any better than someone with 2M EHP, but is certainly more 'godly'.
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@ Uberjager

Throw weap, throw... weap? ._. Throw weap is great if you're ranging, but at the defensive stats you have you shouldn't even be ranging. Your EHP and sustain is enough for you to go balls deep, Frenzy is a better option. Heck, even Bash is a better option as it doesn't gear lock you to a specific setup. Also, No Escape passive? Get out of here lol. That's worse than Bloodthirst.


I.e. for throw barbs. Their sustain and EHP should carry lesser weightage but Dps more, same with their movement speed.


You can check the frontpage of diablofans.com if u really want to know how a throw build works.
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@ Uberjager

Throw weap, throw... weap? ._. Throw weap is great if you're ranging, but at the defensive stats you have you shouldn't even be ranging. Your EHP and sustain is enough for you to go balls deep, Frenzy is a better option. Heck, even Bash is a better option as it doesn't gear lock you to a specific setup. Also, No Escape passive? Get out of here lol. That's worse than Bloodthirst.


I.e. for throw barbs. Their sustain and EHP should carry lesser weightage but Dps more, same with their movement speed.


You can check the frontpage of diablofans.com if u really want to know how a throw build works.


Right after I stopped playing a DH in June I switched to throw barb (being terribly poor it mean't that the most efficient way to farm was to stack dps instead of going the more balanced route of enough EHP and damage) progressed to WW build later on after I got enough EHP. :3

But I disagree with HoTA. Tbh, its great in the video you showed because HoTA is such a strong single target ability. I would generally prefer running seismic slam with rumble when doing runs.

Considering that people can and do change their skill setups all the time, it's pretty much impossible to create a formula that reflects skill setup.

Godly isn't just most efficient at killing stuff. Someone who has 100% LS for example isn't any more effective at killing stuff than someone with 12%, but the first person is certainly more 'godly'. Similarly, someone with 10M EHP doesn't really survive any better than someone with 2M EHP, but is certainly more 'godly'.


So it means to say that Hall of the Godly barbarians is just up to compare elite gear. I suppose it has absolutely nothing to do with character efficiency from what you're saying, or proper itemization, or proper skill building.
Edited by Uberjager#6563 on 11/16/2012 9:13 PM PST
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11/16/2012 09:12 PMPosted by Uberjager
So it means to say that Hall of the Godly barbarians is just up to compare elite gear. I suppose it has absolutely nothing to do with character efficiency from what you're saying, or proper itemization, or proper skill building.


It's about itemization, but not skill building or character efficiency. It specifically is not about skill building.
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OK new hall score

Hall Score: 31516.860563892

DPS Score: 178.1582528
EHP Score: 63.591
Sustain Score: 1.6375670778656
Move Score: 1.24
Paragon Score: 1.37
Misc Score: 1

http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/death-1408/Death/3692684

Now I'm sure your formula needs some tweaking. By equipping some Zuni boots for the additional 12% move speed my Hall score rose again despite losing both AR, EHP and DPS. How is 12% move speed worth more than the loss of 115k EHP, 80 All resist, and 2k DPS?
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@Death

Your effective DPS actually increased with the Zunis because of the +poison damage. My formula gives a 7% credit to dps for the +7% dmg because you use a 'black' weapon which is much more than 2k dps when your dps is near 170K.

And yes, MS is incredibly valuable as seen by the prices of MS gear and why so many people use it even at the cost of other stats.
Edited by Celanian#1548 on 11/17/2012 9:57 AM PST
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