Diablo® III

Auction flaw: the bid 3secs before the end

Current AH fashion gets more chance to win a lot for buyers who make a bid as late as possible. If you make a bid 1d before the end, there is a big chance that you will be overbided, we discussed it ~5 pages ago.


If you bid the maximum you are willing to pay, it doesn't matter if you get outbid, because you weren't going to bid more anyway. That's how easy it is to avoid being sniped. I think this was discussed 5 pages ago too.


in general - agree, but in case of "I want to put all my money on lot and fight for that till the end" only the latest bid will have the biggest chance to win, because you will have more time to collect funds. In case of earlier big bid, you will not be able to add more funds to your bid. However "auto-prolong" would solve that problem, because you will be able to add more funds in case your bid was sniped.
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simple solution. make a D3 AH app for android and all other phones. that way even if u are in game u can still react
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+1

This is definetly a problem till beta because your money bid cannot be used immediatelly, it is all stored first...
For example you have 10 million gold.
You bid 6 million.
Now someone else bids 7 million in the last 3 seconds.
Problem: You cannot bid 8 million, because your 6 million were stored first, not available for a new bid.

This all becomes a strategic matter (when to bid). Far away from ebay-standards.
Edited by ffFiend#2900 on 11/21/2012 3:27 PM PST
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recently owned an ah flipper on an ammy

it was 250k at the last minute
don't use clocks, wtfever
i wait a little bit into the minute and put in my max bid(pretty much all i had on hc at the time) 3.5m, price jumps from 250k to 3.1m at the last minute before i win the bid

i !@#$ing hate ppl sometimes
i knew they were going to flip it
the competition on bids are always %^-*ing flippers
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First, I'll say that I have no opinion one way or another as to adding to an existing bid. I will say that it seems to be intentional. They even have a popup stating what happens when you outbid yourself. Perhaps they think of it like adding chips to the table during the middle of a hand in poker.

That said ...


For example you have 10 million gold.
You bid 6 million.
Now someone else bids 7 million in the last 3 seconds.
Problem: You cannot bid 8 million, because your 6 million were stored first, not available for a new bid.


Solution: If you have 10 million, and are willing to pay 8, then bid 8, not 6.
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+1

This is definetly a problem till beta because your money bid cannot be used immediatelly, it is all stored first...
For example you have 10 million gold.
You bid 6 million.
Now someone else bids 7 million in the last 3 seconds.
Problem: You cannot bid 8 million, because your 6 million were stored first, not available for a new bid.

This all becomes a strategic matter (when to bid). Far away from ebay-standards.


Simple. Bid 10m if it's worth that to you and if someone bids you are going to increase to that amount anyway. This isn't rocket science.
Edited by LordVellius#1303 on 11/21/2012 4:20 PM PST
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First, I'll say that I have no opinion one way or another as to adding to an existing bid. I will say that it seems to be intentional. They even have a popup stating what happens when you outbid yourself. Perhaps they think of it like adding chips to the table during the middle of a hand in poker.

That said ...


For example you have 10 million gold.
You bid 6 million.
Now someone else bids 7 million in the last 3 seconds.
Problem: You cannot bid 8 million, because your 6 million were stored first, not available for a new bid.


Solution: If you have 10 million, and are willing to pay 8, then bid 8, not 6.


Because God forbid you have money tied up elsewhere, like in other auctions as bids or from auctions you have listed, or you get a lucky drop and get a quick buyout that increases your funds. Revealing another flaw with the proxy bidding system: You cannot increase your proxy bid without it automatically bidding you up to your previous maximum.
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Ha ok have fun debating guys! Ciaoooo
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11/21/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Mith
Because God forbid you have money tied up elsewhere, like in other auctions as bids or from auctions you have listed, or you get a lucky drop and get a quick buyout that increases your funds. Revealing another flaw with the proxy bidding system: You cannot increase your proxy bid without it automatically bidding you up to your previous maximum.


that's good example. saying why don't bid 10m if you have - is reasonable suggestion, and I would admit that. But they dont have answer on the case "I want to put all my money on lot and fight for that till the end", I would correct previous example:
======
For example you have 10 million gold.
You bid 10 million 1 hour before the end.
1min left: you got new funds from selling other lots ~5m
Now someone else bids 10,5 million in the last 3 seconds.
Problem: You cannot bid 15 million, because your 10 million were stored first, not available for a new bid 10+5.
======
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@Will and other AH noobs who share his stand on "auction house flaw"

'm complaining and I'm way stronger than you :P and that juniorRC troll has no heroes, even more interesting. He is just here to support snipers without any arguments (except if you consider "facepalm" to be an argument). Who's the moron now?


you are definitely the moron.. here is my hero http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/juniorRC-2189/hero/2691176
or use http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/juniorrc-2189/juniorRC/2691176

now i did offer a solution you mustve missed it somehow..

A is being greedy trying to screw over the seller by only paying $5 for an item that is clearly worth minimum of $10. A i a greedy Fu#% because he is actully willing to pay$15 but doesnt want to if he doesnt really really have to. A is also a retard because he is prepared to wait until 3secs(too late!) to see if he really has to bid $15

here is the solution..
pay attention its quite tricky
bid $15


so now with your situation
Like I said before, an auction is about getting a good deal: you don't throw away 200mi in order to "assure" you will get a good item. You just don't, unless you are a bot and got billions to spend or a spoiled child with daddy's mastercard.

If you got 30 million in store, there is a huge difference between bidding 20 or 25 million on and item. I personally know that most of my friends are in this situation. They are farming, but at the same time trying to get good items to help along. No one will wait to make a fortune first and then try to improve gear.


if you have a budget of 30m trying bidding for items that are worth 30m. do not bid on items that are worth 100m thinking you deserve to win because you only have 30m wtf! due to the nature of proxy bidding the item true/market value will only be revealed right at the end of the auction.


It all boils down to who should the system protect the most: Botters and snipers or fair players?


it protects the seller you retard. if it weren't for ah snipers your own finds wouldn't sell for very much. they ensure that the guy you found a 100m didn't only get your cheapskate 30m low ball.

i only have one more thing to say to you Will and that is DOUBLE FACEPALM!!!
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11/22/2012 12:22 AMPosted by juniorRC
@Will and other AH noobs who share his stand on "auction house flaw"


you are still missing the main point in this thread: in current AH fashion you cannot put max bid that you have, because you do not have a time to re-bid. The only way - is to wait till <30sec left and make final bid. The person who made a bid in advance is at disadvantaged position, because he cannot add funds when 5s left and his is outbided.
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One more scenario about this flaw:

lot - 100k without buyout
you make a bid 500k, current price - 105k
1h left: you must to go out and decide to put more, you place 1m
result: current price grows from 105k up to your old bid +5%: 500+5%=525k
your win the lot for 525k. But in case we would have a feature to increase your bid, you would win the lot just for 105k. - you loose money by increasing your own bid: (old bid - current price) + 5%.
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One more scenario about this flaw:

lot - 100k without buyout
you make a bid 500k, current price - 105k
1h left: you must to go out and decide to put more, you place 1m
result: current price grows from 105k up to your old bid +5%: 500+5%=525k
your win the lot for 525k. But in case we would have a feature to increase your bid, you would win the lot just for 105k. - you loose money by increasing your own bid: (old bid - current price) + 5%.


If you were going to bid 1 million in the end why didn't you bid that to START with. The same thing keeps being said over and over and over again. You guys are beating a dead horse!

No matter what the situation is, no matter how you spell it, break it down, or try to explain it you are complaining about something that is at the very core of what an auction is in the first place.

1) An auction is NOT meant for you to get a " good deal". An auction is a system that allows a seller to place his goods in the open and allow multiple people to give him bids on what they think it is worth. Obviously there are different perceptions of an item's value, hence there are those who will value an item lower or higher than others.

2) As a seller, you choose the specifics for the auction (buyout, reserve price, etc). Obviously there is no "reserve price" setting in D3 AH but there is a buyout which establishes a ceiling for the auction. The AH also sets a time limit to the auction, ie 1.5 days.

3) As a buyer, you place bid(s) for what you consider to be the value of an auction. The D3 AH requires that bids increment by a specific percentage. Therefore, if you bid more than x where x is the required "minimum bid" you have established a proxy which will bid to your "maximum bid" in the case that others bid on this item. If someone bids above your "maximum bid" then the proxy stops bidding for you. Your maximum bid remains a secret to other bidders as if it were a "silent auction".

4) When the set time limit is reached the auction ends and the highest bidder wins. It doesn't matter how much the bidder's maximum bid was nor what time the bid was placed. All that matters is that person bid the most for the item and, therefore, valued the item at the highest price. The seller's item was sold either via buyout for the ceiling price or (if no buyout) at the highest price placed by bidders in the specified time of the auction.

The exact solution to your above problem is this: bid what you would pay for the item, not what you would like to pay but the exact amount that you value the said item at. No more and no less. The item's value should not change. The stats will stay the same. While other items on the market may become available during the auction, this item is going to stay EXACTLY as it is posted. Therefore, you establish a max value for an item, bid it, and forget about that auction. You have bid what you value the item at (by this I mean bid the max you are willing to pay for the item. If this value is changing that is a problem for YOU not the AH system). If you value it more than others, you will win. If someone else places a higher value on the item, they will win. Stop whining about how you didn't get an item for your bid. An auction is not about getting a 10 million gold item for 400k. It is about how much value each bidder places on an item. Bid what you value the item at. If you don't win the item, someone valued it more than you.

End of story.
Edited by Iceman8619#1225 on 11/24/2012 10:43 PM PST
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Clearly you've never heard of sniping. Just overbid by about 3000% just as it ends and you're nearly guaranteed to get it. Otherwise, you're practically screwed.

"Real auctions".....it's the same way on eBay, which is real actions. Fixed ending, with all the good bids coming in at the end.
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i cant believe this is even still a thread. op needs to understand/accept proxy bidding, stop being such a cheapskate, and bid during the last minute.
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4) When the set time limit is reached the auction ends and the highest bidder wins. It doesn't matter how much the bidder's maximum bid was nor what time the bid was placed. All that matters is that person bid the most for the item and, therefore, valued the item at the highest price. The seller's item was sold either via buyout for the ceiling price or (if no buyout) at the highest price placed by bidders in the specified time of the auction.The exact solution to your above problem is this: bid what you would pay for the item, not what you would like to pay but the exact amount that you value the said item at. No more and no less. The item's value should not change. The stats will stay the same. While other items on the market may become available during the auction, this item is going to stay EXACTLY as it is posted. Therefore, you establish a max value for an item, bid it, and forget about that auction. You have bid what you value the item at (by this I mean bid the max you are willing to pay for the item. If this value is changing that is a problem for YOU not the AH system). If you value it more than others, you will win. If someone else places a higher value on the item, they will win. Stop whining about how you didn't get an item for your bid. An auction is not about getting a 10 million gold item for 400k. It is about how much value each bidder places on an item. Bid what you value the item at. If you don't win the item, someone valued it more than you.


the last scenario shows that you are fighting with yourself, and the price grows dramatically because of that. The AH is not ideal, how can real man in auc fighting with himself, dont you find it's stupid? According to your perspective The system then should not allow to make more bid if you already have a bid and the leader, and add feature - "increase your bid", OK?
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