Diablo® III

Mana 101

I made a brief comment about this elsewhere, but I wanted to collect the info in a better place. I wanna talk about how mana is affected by attack speed. Below I'm detailing a simplistic scenario with a 1.4x dagger vs. a 1.0x Skorn.

EMR = effective mana regen; adjusted for attack speed
Assuming your helm has 10 MR, that means 45 base MR + 10 helm MR = 55 MR
  • 10 + 10 MR on your hand items (75 MR total) and 1.4x attack speed = 54 EMR
  • 20 hand MR (75 MR total) and 1.4x attack speed and Zuni set bonus (95 MR total) = 68 EMR
  • Skorn (55 MR total) and 1.0x attack speed and Zuni set bonus (75 MR total) = 75 EMR

So you can see that a Zuni set (assuming you get MR on your Vision) is about a 24% bump in mana regen. And having mana on both your hand items is mandatory if you want to get close to the mana savings of a Skorn. What happens when you remove MR from one of your hand items?
  • 10 hand MR (65 MR total) and 1.4x attack speed and Zuni set bonus (85 MR total) = 61 EMR

And as you add more attack speed bonuses, your EMR continues to drop. I know this is not revolutionary info, but hopefully it clarifies the situation a bit.
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My main problem has more to do with the fact that yes, while we have access to +mana on 3 pieces, in most likely scenario, you are going to get one on Mojo or one on Helmet if you are using 2H.

Manajuma Knife doesn't have guaranteed +mana unless you sacrifice that random for it (which means you also lose on potential 100% CD). To get a high dps rare Knife with good INT/OS/LS is ridiculously expensive/hard to find.

Last Breath also doesn't have guaranteed +mana.

Zuni helmet has the same problem. You either get +mana regen or +critical. You can't have both so the only way to get great +mana is with 4piece or use Visage.

Overall, yes there are options but those options are not very reasonable. The best 1H weapons don't have +mana (Echo Fury, Manajuma, Last Breath, etc) and 2H have no mana either but Skorn hits so hard that it makes it worth it.

My twin brother said one thing that kind of stood out to me when he watched me play. He said it seems like they give WD a lot of high mana cost spells and the whole Class is about how to offset that mana cost by taking 1-3 mana tactics and mana runes and +mana on items while other classes just focus on Offense with high attack speed + critical because they get resource while going for more offense.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/16/2012 10:41 AM PST
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11/16/2012 10:26 AMPosted by Jibikao
Overall, yes there are options but those options are not very reasonable. The best 1H weapons don't have +mana (Echo Fury, Manajuma, Last Breath, etc) and 2H have no mana either but Skorn hits so hard that it makes it worth it.

Skorn, despite having no MR, is really the best mana solution. Kinda stinks honestly though, since all the WD-centric weapons are 1-handers.

My twin brother said one thing that kind of stood out to me when he watched me play. He said it seems like they give WD a lot of high mana cost spells and the whole Class is about how to offset that mana cost by taking 1-3 mana tactics and mana runes and +mana on items while other classes just focus on Offense with high attack speed + critical because they get resource while going for more offense.

Yeah that's a really good point. When other classes invest in crit to boost resources, they are simultaneously investing in damage. Not so with us.
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Yeah that's a really good point. When other classes invest in crit to boost resources, they are simultaneously investing in damage. Not so with us.


Of course this doesn't apply to DH but DH's primary does the most damage of all. Hungering Arrow is SICK and the new Bola is amazing aoe and decent ST.

Monk.. I can't remember the last time I sae a 2H monk. LOL All top ones are DW with fist of lightning, very little need for spirit.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/16/2012 10:56 AM PST
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11/16/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Jasonator
Skorn, despite having no MR, is really the best mana solution.


Arguably better: rare Doom Hammer with Skorn stats, since it's even slower.

That's why I would love it if Blizzard added lvl 63 crafting recipes, since rare drops with those stats are so rare (like the rare knife that Jibikao mentioned).
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Skorn, despite having no MR, is really the best mana solution.


Arguably better: rare Doom Hammer with Skorn stats, since it's even slower.

That's why I would love it if Blizzard added lvl 63 crafting recipes, since rare drops with those stats are so rare (like the rare knife that Jibikao mentioned).


I really wish they could create more kinds of recipes.. like the "rune words" in D2. Give those "gray" items with socket a point because there is really no point in dropping White and Gray weapons. I mean Blue items already serve no purpose past Normal.

I wish there were more ways to increase the likelihood of certain properties and in our case, we want to craft a weapon with +mana on a Ceremonial Knife.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/16/2012 11:28 AM PST
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This is base mana regen.

This doesn't include the ability to gain mana back from, for instance, VQ+Widow Makers, where attack speed does matter.

You can get mana regen on the main hand weapon, zuni mojo, and a non-zuni helmet. This would give maximum possible mana regen (and still not enough :\)
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Personally I find it funny that they design all the end game gear pieces WITHOUT mana regen.

Manaj knife? - No mana
Serpent, no mana. (ok you can get mana pretty easy on a mojo).
Zuni helm, No mana.

Sure you CAN get mana on the knife/helm but you really cant justify giving up a socket on the knife, and CC on the helm.

So in reality, top geared WDs look like this.

2h users have either
3 pc Zuni with VoG (12-14mps)

4pc zuni that includes a zuni helm with crit (but we get 20 mps from 4 piece).

1h WDs have the same as above, with the excetion they can easily get 10-14 on mojo.

Just seems odd that many of the high end WD items dont have Mana regen on them, yet mana on them. (also I am pretty sure that CK's cant roll as high damage as other 63 1 handers.)
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This is base mana regen.

This doesn't include the ability to gain mana back from, for instance, VQ+Widow Makers, where attack speed does matter.

You can get mana regen on the main hand weapon, zuni mojo, and a non-zuni helmet. This would give maximum possible mana regen (and still not enough :\)


The class is designed to use a lot more mana than other classes, so in the end, you need to offset that by getting +mana from items (which is actually kind of hard), mana tactics (we have several to choose from!) or mana runes.

Take me for example, I don't have the greatest gear but I took two mana tactics already for WoS spamming. I need either Swarm's devouring rune for farming or Haunt's draining spirit for uber fight or else I can't sustain the spamming even with only 1.53 attack speed. I could have used Searing Swarm/Acid Cloud for more aoe damage but that pushes my mana cost quite high.

Yes! I can change my Tal Rasha helmet but that means I'll lose out on Critical and there is no way I can afford a Critical Zuni helmet. I bought my Mojo specifically because it has +14% SB and +mana regen. There were mojos with higher Average damage/INT but I know I need +mana regen and I paid for it. (For the record, I did not buy Tal Rashal, those two were drops for me)

The point I tried to make is that we have options but it seems like we need to go out of way to get them when other classes can mostly just focus on the typical Attack Speed, CC/CD. We could have taken more runes with more damage potential but if you don't have enough +mana, you need to take runes with +mana rune which sacrifices some damage.

However, unlike most here, I care more about how we can get more damage that don't cost mana and I don't want Mana on Critical because that is just too similar to Wizard/Barb. Yes, I am looking at Fetish, Thorn and skills that are still under-performing.

Seriously, how good is WD without Zombie Bear? How many of you are going to use Zombie "Charger"?
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/16/2012 12:28 PM PST
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The point I tried to make is that we have options but it seems like we need to go out of way to get them when other classes can mostly just focus on the typical Attack Speed, CC/CD


Our options come at the opportunity cost of giving up the stats other classes can get since they dont need to worry about resource management (for the most part)


Seriously, how good is WD without Zombie Bear? How many of you are going to use Zombie "Charger"?


Honestly, as much as i like the whole WOS build... there is no doubt in my mind that bears is better than any other skill we have. Bears simply produces way more damage.

Im not using bears, as i dont have a LS weapon yet, but as soon as i get one, i will be dropping AC for bears.
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Bears might have a higher damage potential but I like that WOS has greater range and also tracks targets as to not mp. Also WOS+ROE should pretty much be infinite casting.
1 handers can get
14 helm VOG
20 Set bonus (body+ring+mojo+feet)
14 Mojo
14 dagger
for 107 Regen
and not have to sacrifice crit chance or damage.
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Bears might have a higher damage potential but I like that WOS has greater range and also tracks targets as to not mp. Also WOS+ROE should pretty much be infinite casting.
1 handers can get
14 helm VOG
20 Set bonus (body+ring+mojo+feet)
14 Mojo
14 dagger
for 107 Regen
and not have to sacrifice crit chance or damage.


107 regen sounds nice on paper but to get a very good damage that matches Skorn's potential with OS/LS AND Mana Regen is next to impossible. All the C. Daggers I have seen have less raw dps for some reasons.

Manajuma is the easiest way to get decent damage with good CD/LS but you only have one random for either OS or Mana. You can't have both. The potential is a lot less.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/16/2012 6:29 PM PST
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I agree I have been having a hard time locking down a decent dagger with mana/Ls/OS so for now i've settled on LOH.
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11/16/2012 06:44 PMPosted by Jimbob
I agree I have been having a hard time locking down a decent dagger with mana/Ls/OS so for now i've settled on LOH.


Whereas Wizard has a high damage set wand/orb guarantee Arcane Power on Critical.

We can get +attack speed on dagger but we need to worry about mana cost which leads to many high end WDs using Skorn. :(
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11/16/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Jibikao
Seriously, how good is WD without Zombie Bear? How many of you are going to use Zombie "Charger"?


Not very good at all, relatively speaking. Fun to play yes, but Bears are the only thing keeping people from writing them off entirely.
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11/16/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Jibikao
Seriously, how good is WD without Zombie Bear? How many of you are going to use Zombie "Charger"?


Not very good at all, relatively speaking. Fun to play yes, but Bears are the only thing keeping WD's in the discussion in terms of effectiveness.

One thing I find interesting is that the WD's snares are all but useless in Inferno. The game just isn't balanced for them. There's no use in slowing monsters down because A) half the time they'll just teleport out of it, B) elites aren't slowed enough to make any difference, and C) one of the WD's main resource skills (Grave Injustice) requires you to be somewhat close to the enemy, not keeping them away from you.
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I save the most mana if I don't attack at all.

Edit: Grasp is an amazing spell.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/16/2012 9:23 PM PST
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Man just as i complained about finding an mana/Ls/OS dagger Snagged this lastnight
Black 1111.8 10% IAS 14 mana regen OS 2.3 % LS for 20 mil.
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Man just as i complained about finding an mana/Ls/OS dagger Snagged this lastnight
Black 1111.8 10% IAS 14 mana regen OS 2.3 % LS for 20 mil.


Oh my.. looks like I need to shop more. I haven't searched a new weapon in a long time.
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Man just as i complained about finding an mana/Ls/OS dagger Snagged this lastnight
Black 1111.8 10% IAS 14 mana regen OS 2.3 % LS for 20 mil.


Wow!!
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