Diablo® III

Highest damage single-target Hatred dump?

100 Tauren Druid
4610
Posts: 4,963

Then attack speed would matter afterall :(

you're right, kinda, at that point hatred would be far more limiting

you'd open the limit from 3.2 seconds /3 1.067
to
3.2 seconds /6 = new echo every .534 seconds

30 hatred every .53 = 57 hatred/sec needed, (I don't think over 35 is going to even be practical.. but lets go with it)

punishment would allow this (vengeance + custom)
so, i think that is a 1,546%/sec top end * 1.49 = 2,304%

yes
echo is hypothetically able to crush cluster
the hatred dump is a bit more tricky imo, but that is badass
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With a build I made.. using M4D:ME, I can use 6 of these without a problem.. using 3 per second is nice too.

Thing about this and the build I used is.. it abuses the M4D:ME proc.

3 Chain of Torments = 9 Hatred
1 use of your Hatred Generator = 6/9 (Grenades-Tinkerer)
3 Echoing = 9, 12, 15 (1st explosions of the bomb gives 9. subsequent explosions gives exponential hatred generation)

Bat and Shuriken..

You can sometimes put 6 Echoing altogether. I can't do that with Cluster, I still run out >_< But with Spike, I can do it indefinitely.

But you got to admit, Cluster Bombs vs big mobs.. can't beat that.
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Then attack speed would matter afterall :(

you're right, kinda, at that point hatred would be far more limiting

you'd open the limit from 3.2 seconds /3 1.067
to
3.2 seconds /6 = new echo every .534 seconds

30 hatred every .53 = 57 hatred/sec needed, (I don't think over 35 is going to even be practical.. but lets go with it)

punishment would allow this (vengeance + custom)
so, i think that is a 1,546%/sec top end * 1.49 = 2,304%

yes
echo is hypothetically able to crush cluster
the hatred dump is a bit more tricky imo, but that is badass


I don't see how EB can outperform CB. EB with 49% dmg bonus from gear is 1230% dmg. CB is 1120% dmg. CA reduction from gear can bring cost of CB down to 20 hate.

Using Vengeance, hate pool is 150.
CB = 7 uses, 7840%
EB = 5 uses, 6150%
Edited by Monsta#1979 on 11/18/2012 12:13 PM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
4610
Posts: 4,963
11/18/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Monsta
CB is 1120% dmg

1150% with just the 5 bombs
but CB could be = 1375% (5*230% bombs + the mother bomb 225%)

CB beats EB in both dmg/sec as well as hate/dmg

depends on how well you can collect items with cluster cost reduction that retain dps, as well as returns from M4D:ME

ostensibly 1150% CB must be below a cost of 27 to beat Echo
but we would need to accurately account for the procs from M4D:ME;
Echo may be lowered down to as little as 21 through 3 returned hatred per blast.. or it could be 27 (1 per blast) not sure on CB either, those cost adjustments are crucial

the absolute hypothetical ceiling of echos = 2304%/sec (57 hatred a sec to do that and needs minimum 1.86 APS)
need custom engi and can have 3CoT

you can do this with 1150%CB if you lower the cost to 27 and can shoot one every .499 second (so you have to have at least 2.01 APS)
needs grenadier, and could have custom engi for 3CoT

coming to terms with a "practical" answer
1. depends on the actual final costs of echo and cluster with M4D:ME coef'
2. practical use of items with modifiers (CB = asymptotic VS. spike trap = linear)
3. max hatred rates with 3 CoT vs 2 CoT, with passive choices

now as far as i'm concerned there's no room for generators in either of these ceiling scenarios
since you'd need to have over 3.72 APS just to do it with echo, and over 4.02 with CB
Edited by zoid#1554 on 11/18/2012 1:10 PM PST
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I posted this test before but on MP7 vs azmodan who is both big and stationary with echo traps I can kill him in 56s. With cluster bomb and grenadier it took 60s.

I just stood in one spot and fired away at him. Both times I had sentry guardian to help out as well.

Not a huge gap between them. I didn't use tinkerer with cluster though I may try another test with that and see if it can beat echo.
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I posted this test before but on MP7 vs azmodan who is both big and stationary with echo traps I can kill him in 56s. With cluster bomb and grenadier it took 60s.


seems to me, in your scenario, if you have one or two +spike trap damage items, you'd be alot faster than CB.

harder to test against normal elites obviously
o/
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no one seems to take into account potential lose of the bomb not exploding from cluster arrow. Position requirement is also another factor to be considered for CACB. You need to spend time kiting and ensure the position is ideal for unloading your CACB since there is a deadzone for CACB range. Spike trap may theoritically has less dmg% per sec than CACB but the positional requirement is less of a factor. Activate gloom and load a few EB in front of them and watch elite explode as you facetank.

in addition to this, you have to consider the fact that running CACB require you to equip a skill / passive to snare or open gap between enemy in a short period of time to ensure you are in ideal positon to unload your CACB (for example, caltrop - tortuorous ground, Tactical advantage). Spike trap EB has no such requirement. You dont really need custom engineering passive to compliment EB build
Edited by Mlvnk83#1814 on 11/18/2012 6:05 PM PST
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You don't need a passive to snare. You can stun with stun grenades or or bola. You can also use cold dmg to snare enemies. Or if you have a tank, then you can just stand back and launch away
Edited by Monsta#1979 on 11/18/2012 6:14 PM PST
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grade stun is unreliable.

Bola shot - thunder ball, 35% chance to stun. imagine you have to create the situation where the stun proc and you run backward to unload CACB. You waste time when you are re-positoning. In addition, you can only stun 1 target. You will have trouble with fast minions.

cold dmg - cold dmg only snare for 1 sec max (i think). which only give you 1 sec time to move backward for positioning. There are only 2 source of cold amage - equip with +cold dmg% or equip with skill frost arrow / caltrop . For the former, most of DH's AE centric skills are elemental based which you cant proc the snare even if you equip with +cold dmg% (from SOJ). if you are talking about the latter, you still need a second slot to have CACB function properly.

find a tank - Yes, i agree using CACB while you have tank is fun =)

On a side note, i'd imagine caltrop - torturous ground and/or tactical advantage is required if you want to run with CACB effectively. Unless someone can convince me otherwise
Edited by Mlvnk83#1814 on 11/18/2012 7:16 PM PST
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First of all, grenade stun is unreliable because you use a slow manticore. If you had 3 aps, you'd be permastunning mobs.

Second, I'd much rather use an active skill slot for TA or caltrops instead of wasting a passive for custom engineering.
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