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I don't use puppies, but other than that, yeah. Of course, there's a big difference between a tough mob that I run around in while alternating Spirit Walk and Frightening Aspect, and a guy who just hangs out offscreen while I calmly attack his aura. (It works better without the garg on, BTW.)
Unfortunately, my recently lost wiz never got the chance to take him on. My bowless DH, however, is similarly amused by how he stays at screen's distance and doesn't move off the circle of six traps.
As somebody who's played all the classes in at least MP2 (Monk just a little though, boring as hell to facetank everything while spamming a mantra), I'd say you should probably just reduce your listed difficulties for wardens 1-3 by a lot, and then add a footnote saying "wizards are damn hard." I'm about to roll what I believe is my twelfth wiz, as opposed to 1/2/3/3 for the other classes. :-/
Edited by JiJin#3245 on 11/23/2012 8:25 AM PST
Agree on the conservative nature of the dps needed to avoid enrage timers. Did several runs with about 200k total team dps + convic monk on mp4, no battle took more than 4m 15sec.
Otherwise, very good guide. Interesting take on a2 keywarden, and agree on a4 keywarden. I got down to about 35% health against him on mp0 when I was regularly doing mp4 ubers one time...scary.
Edited by Bryanw1995#1913 on 11/23/2012 8:19 AM PST
Thanks for the guide. Have any tips for build changes when fighting the users? It makes sense to swap out the ruby in my helm for an amethyst, but I suppose there are other things too. I use a WD and usually run rain of toads, acid rain, soul harvest, mass confusion w/ paranoia (-15 sec cd from a last breath) and dogs. I assume since your only fighting two people at once acid rain would not be as good as bears or acid cloud lob blob bomb. Are dogs worth it or is the garg better? What about soul harvest. I'm obviously not going to get five stacks from it so is something else better? I could use big bad voodoo to help boost the group but with 120 s cd is it worth it?
we have similar builds so perhaps i can help (done a few runs of mp4 ubers). i always switch out jungle fortitude for bad medecine so everyone can benefit from a 20% damage reduction versus 15% for just me.
garg vs dogs depends. if you have low LoH and are dependant on it, go for the fire dogs (as the fire procs LoH), if you can do well enough on your own then go garg for the extra dps (to avoid enrages). regardless they dont make great distractions for ubers.
use big bad voodoo slam dance for ubers. on mp4 i noticed i would get 2 of these off, with another WD we could keep this up for most of the time so everyone benefits :D. again the key here is trying not to gimp yourself, but giving everyone a valuable skill (as barbs use warcry, monks use conviction, cm wiz freezes etc etc).
also, since you can quit and rejoin games without losing stacks, have the witch doctors exit and rejoin immediately to remove the cooldown :)
just my opinion but if youre having trouble with ghoms poison you are reaching outside your capability. i stood in mp4 with my old WD the entire fight, didnt move once (well...until we had to chase rakanoth :P)
Edited by Isolation#1274 on 11/23/2012 12:47 PM PST
Very, very nice guide, Dutchman! Thank you for writing it! Sticky requested! =)
I have a couple of things to add:
First, it's probably worth noting that there's a bug with Siegebreaker where, if he picks up a player, and he's being chain-stunned, he'll never put that player back down again until the victim's teammates stop stunning him. I've spent the better part of the fight stuck in the air in Siegebreaker's hands because of this bug more than once (in softcore) because nobody noticed my pleas in chat to stop stunning him for a moment!
Secondly, I've seen the enrage timers go off (and died to them) in softcore (in the Siegebreaker/ZK fight). You get a warning that the countdown has been activated, in the form of an icon on the right-hand side of the screen, but it's easy to miss in the frenzy of trying to fight, knowing full well that you're running out of time (and usually in softcore it's because people have been dying and you're desperately trying to stay alive yourself while trying to somehow rez your comrades. Of course, rezzing comrades won't be a distraction in hardcore...)
When I saw the enrages go off not everyone died at once, and it happened differently depending on which mob we were on. The time I saw it on MP-10, we were still on ZK (with someone tanking SB on the other side of the room) and one-by-one, we suddenly just died. But when ZK was down, and 3 of us were alive and ran out of time on SB, the enrage hit in the form of a serious life drain, that took some time to run down (maybe 5 seconds? And quaffing a pot bought me a little more time.) I was the last of us to die, and *almost* got SB. I swear, if I could have swung my axe one more time... LOL!
Now maybe it was just a perception thing, and my life drained fighting ZK too, and I just didn't notice it, but I clearly remember the warning icon popping up on the right-hand side, where the debuffs and curses appear, telling me of my impending doom.
Bam. Bumped for a very helpful post. Any witchdoctors using two handers out there who have advice on WD uber build of choice? Grave injustice obviously isn't going to cut it... and I wonder about gruesome feast.
Anyone can answer this one - how often do the ubers drop health globes / do they ever?
Beautiful guide (this should be stickied, no doubt about it).
1) I second the health globe question
2) Since I'd be looking at this from a barb-tank perspective, anyone have any ideas how necessary things like Threatening Shout-taunt rune or extra stuns are? I agree that a per-class build/item tweaks section is the only thing this guide could be missing.
3) While I've never done this fight, I agree whole-heartedly that the required DPS should be over-estimated (and a "switch hitting" character that could maybe tank if necessary) seems badly necessary to the smart (read: cautious) hardcore player. A player can die, DC, or both, and you don't want to have 3 RIPs instead of 1.
Acid Rain is a completely fine way of dealing damage on a WD. It comes down to your full spec and what your hoping to accomplish. If your running out of mana after 7 seconds and you spend most of your time just spamming your non mana eating attack then ZB's will not provide any better DPS. Also Lob Blob Bomb for Acid Cloud is very very good DPS vs Elites/Bosses. Its not used as often for farming because the large radius of Acid Cloud win's out for big groups. Not trying to be rude just stating that Acid Cloud is completely viable.
Might be worth mentioning that WD's Hex spell works on all key warden's and can make keyfarming in groups or solo easier for everyone. By works I mean will turn them into a non-attacking pig for 60%-70% of the time it takes to kill him.
Also I've done alot of ACT 4 plan runs recently and I'd say 75% of the time he seems to spawn with a pack around him. Be wary. I really wouldn't suggest not going above MP1. Things go south just way to quickly.
**Edit** - Nice work on the guide!
Also none of the bosses drop health globes unless you have a character generating them. Sacrifice/Zombie Dogs etc....
Edited by Jackyboy#1251 on 12/10/2012 11:38 AM PST
i like acid rain although its a huge dps drop. i am doing about 60k damage, usually 80-100k crits. zombie bears crits for like 280k for me. thing is i find the life steal with bears really inconsistant, and i murder myself on reflect damage (i have the mana regen to sustain it). i just wouldnt want to run into a reflect horde and insta-kill myself. LoH is really consistant healing with rain of toads and acid (even when frozen im gaining health like a madman) and the dps i put out is still good enough for most groups out there.
I ran bears for a while using grave injustice to keep myself spirit walking up constantly and sacrifice to kill white mobs in droves. But honestly the bears are just stupidly dangerous. The 8% acid cloud crit chance helm makes me feel just as damaging but substantially less dangerous on MP1 Act 3 farm runs.
I haven't tried Manitou on uber's but have tried it on a ton of other runs because I've seen alot of other WD's swear by it. It just has never felt worth a slot to me. If I had a free skill slot to fill it I think I would pickup Big Bad Voodoo. The group buff I think in the long run would be more beneficial. I'm sure it would work fine though.
**Edit** Another Skorn WD user! Nice!
Edited by Jackyboy#1251 on 12/10/2012 12:57 PM PST
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