Diablo® III

What do you think of a Stone of Jordan?

So I go this Stone, incase I dont keep it equiped, it is +5% cold, +29% elite, +6% crit chance for Acid cloud (I am an acid cloud spamer), +106 max mana.

But using this ring takes 22k off my DPS!, Goning from 145k, down to 123k,

In your opinions is the invisible Damge worth it?

PS I have about +431 crit damage.
Edited by blackjack#1375 on 11/29/2012 9:52 PM PST
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i can crit for 800-1mil with out SoJ, 1.5+ with it on. If you do enough Uber runs it is well worth it.
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Of course the invisible damage is worth it.
Gearing your character should be about results, not internet phallometry.
The 6% crit alone gives you back 10k damage (I checked for your char on d3rawr). Add to that 30% overall damage boost when it matters most and you definitely have an upgrade.
The cold damage (as well as your zuni boots) would benefit you more if you had a black weapon. I'm guessing an equivalent black would be pretty expensive, but it might be an upgrade worth looking into.
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BIS, See no reason not to use it unless you need the extra tankiness by another ring. You can't beat it hands down when it comes to DPS, added attacks due to the increased mana pool, reduction of spell cost, or getting the most out of the spells you are using like your bonus ring.

If you are using GI/GF, locust, VQ, LOH, or LS. You really want to close in that gap between the time it takes to kill trash & the time to kill elites. It's a bit of a backwards way to think of it but we benefit from trash that can't damage us. The longer the trash is around the elites you are trying to kill live, the more you'll be able to siphon off them both in terms of mana, and life. It will help you bring down the elites faster, die less and not get stuck fighting a single monster.

Think of a reflect pact surrounded by 10 trash units. When you shoot a round a of bear you are going to reflect off 3, but siphon off 13..that is until the 10 is dead if you are using a SOJ you extend the life of the trash and do more damage to the reflect pack so by the time you only are facing the pack they are manageable with a quick spirit walk burst attack.

IMOP Bonus Vs Elites is one of the most underrated affix in this game not because of the massive amounts of damage it does but because it starts to even the playing field between trash and elites.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 10:37 AM PST
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hmm I know the %added elemental damage affects only the black portion of weapon damage, but I thought it worked only if you use a skill with the appropriate elemental damage type, am I wrong? (ie if you use bears or acid rain, you need a %poison dmg for it to have any effect at all.. am I incorrect?). I read HOTA barbs need %cold damage, I thought it was the same for us needing poison dmg?

If I am wrong I guess I should start looking at Tal Rasha amus with other dmg than poison, not just poison ones..
Edited by Emphyrio#1922 on 11/30/2012 1:03 AM PST
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hmm I know the %added elemental damage affects only the black portion of weapon damage, but I thought it worked only if you use a skill with the appropriate elemental damage type, am I wrong? (ie if you use bears or acid rain, you need a %poison dmg for it to have any effect at all.. am I incorrect?). I read HOTA barbs need %cold damage, I thought it was the same for us needing poison dmg?

If I am wrong I guess I should start looking at Tal Rasha amus with other dmg than poison, not just poison ones..


no it just stacks to black damage, doesn't matter what spell you use. Barbs want cold because they aren't broken and it does slow/snare w/cold damage.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 2:19 AM PST
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I Wish you could get a SoJ that gave bears more damage vs less mana cost!

That would be fun =)
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Think of a reflect pact surrounded by 10 trash units. When you shoot a round a of bear you are going to reflect off 3, but siphon off 13..that is until the 10 is dead if you are using a SOJ you extend the life of the trash and do more damage to the reflect pack so by the time you only are facing the pack they are manageable with a quick spirit walk burst attack. IMOP Bonus Vs Elites is one of the most underrated affix in this game not because of the massive amounts of damage it does but because it starts to even the playing field between trash and elites.


great insight. eye opener for me.
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11/29/2012 10:14 PMPosted by Corvus
Gearing your character should be about results, not internet phallometry.


nice lol
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I can promise you it is worth it. I use a litany at mp 1-6 since it is an all around solid ring and I plow through certain trash a little faster with it. Plus I take mobs out in very short spans of time before running oom regardless of whether I use my soj or not.

But at the higher mps (7+ where stuff is much tankier), I see no reason at all not to use this. Don't let lack of on-screen dps deter you from this ring - it is insane. Combine this sucker with a serpent and the bonus vs elites is exceptional.

Put it this way: I do 153k unbuffed with the Litany. On screen, stone drops me down to like 138.

That's 15k dmg. Looks like a downgrade right?

Wrong. I'm killing trash at a pretty strong rate still and my damage against elite/champs - the battles where my dps matters most - has shot up 41,400 as opposed to 15 (I run a 10 zc reduction/27 elite bonus soj with 3 percent on my serpent making it a round 30). And the extra max mana makes Spirtual Attunement all the more powerful when you pair soj with a good zuni helm and any offhand with + to max mana.
Edited by RPRNoNsum#1561 on 11/30/2012 7:32 AM PST
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I've been a big fan of SOJ because it has +SB%. Maybe I am just biased and I don't have another god-like Ring to replace it.

I feel I perform better with SOJ even at the loss of potential CC/CD/AR/core stats and much lower paper DPS.

I just know trash enemies don't kill me. Only elites do. And due to this reason, I am willing to equip SOJ and I HATE item swap unless it's right before uber.

I only think SOJ is worth it if Elite is at least 28% and skill bonus is high.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/30/2012 10:31 AM PST
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11/29/2012 09:56 PMPosted by JonkZ
i can crit for 800-1mil with out SoJ, 1.5+ with it on. If you do enough Uber runs it is well worth it.


This statement makes no sense to me. If you have a crit/CD ring on and you put on an SOJ your resulting DPS and crit damage drop.

So say you have 100,000 DPS with the crit ring on and x% CD. You put on a SOJ.

You now have 90,000 DPS and your cit chance fell and your CD fell. So when you crit, you cirit at some proportionately lower damage rate. So say in my case I lose 10,000 DPS X 4.5 crit X 24% cd. And my normal CD is 300%.

So now your CD is 276% and your chance of a crit dropped 4.5% and the damage you lose when you hit is the 10,000 Base damage + the old crit damage 300% on 10,000 = 40,000 damage.
So now you crit at a reduced crit chance 90,000 x 276% = 248,400. So divide 40,000 by 248,400 = 14% total damage is what you gave up to wear the SOJ.

(This example is based on my Litany of the Undaunted ring, do your own math on your rings to see what the differences are.)

So the reality is your 29% SOJ is giving you 15% more damage against elites only. Meanwhile you are gimping your damage against white monsters 14% and slowing your kill rate. And if whites are mixed with elites, you just made your life more interesting.

And BTW you also will crit 4.5% less with the SOJ on.

I've never liked the SOJ. Maybe for uber fights and that's it.

Apologies for any math errors, this was done on the fly.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/30/2012 12:05 PM PST
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Well blackjack is running acid cloud and he will have the 6% crit chance so he's just losing the CD on the ring, and some stats (int, avg dmg etc..)

The 5% more damage to your base closes the gap very quickly, at the very least covers the avg dmg difference.

ASSUMING 90% of people are probably overkilling whites, the bonus to elites is more important and likely won't hinder your farming speed.

15% may not seem like much, but going from 100,000 dps to 115,000 dps is pretty significant. How many other rings can add 15k dps on top of your current ring? Most of them would likely just give you an additional 4-7k due to your current ring already being near top.

For those using bears, the -10 to bears casting cost helps your bears sustain pretty significantly. Even if its just one extra cast of bears before OOM, that one cast makes up for a lot.

Non-bears, non-AC users I have no clue about.
Edited by JookSingJai#1628 on 11/30/2012 12:59 PM PST
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Another thing to consider is that SOJ gives you +max mana which a normal Rare ring won't give. Whether that is worth it or not, it's up to you.

I think SOJ is a perfect fit for my WoS build because 12% damage boost is like increasing my weapon damage from 425% to 476% while giving me 100ish mana to work with (without mana, I deal no damage).

The Elemental damage boost is nice but it sucks that it adds little to Manajuma and I can't afford a black damage weapon that is close to manajuma properties.

If my build focuses on Primary spamming, I may not consider SOJ because the max mana property is sort of wasted.

I am using SOJ simply because I am devoted to the theme "Well of Souls" but I won't consider Skull Grasp. I don't like that ring. I'll only consider SOJ and a very good Mara.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/30/2012 1:03 PM PST
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I currently use a mana spiders build (what my profile shows). So mana on the SOJ is not an issue for my build.

I used the ring I am wearing as an example and put it against the highest % SOJ (which I don't own).

If I wanted to really sway the numbers against SOJ I could use a Trifecta ring with the added attack speed (which my build can support) and/or I could also include PtV on both sides of the equation which would make the SOJ a very bad option.

But I showed a real world example.

So you have to make your own decision, your mileage may vary.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/30/2012 1:14 PM PST
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11/30/2012 12:03 PMPosted by skywalkerfx
i can crit for 800-1mil with out SoJ, 1.5+ with it on. If you do enough Uber runs it is well worth it.


This statement makes no sense to me.

<snip>

So the reality is your 29% SOJ is giving you 15% more damage against elites only. Meanwhile you are gimping your damage against white monsters 14% and slowing your kill rate. And if whites are mixed with elites, you just made your life more interesting.

And BTW you also will crit 4.5% less with the SOJ on.

I've never liked the SOJ. Maybe for uber fights and that's it.


You did the math, came up with +15% vs elites, and yet... maybe it's good for ubers?

Your thought process makes no sense to me.
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@Sky The damage vs elites bonus is on all damage, not just crit damage, and you want to try to kill the trash and elites as close in time as possible. You don't move on until the elites are dead anyways so it's irrelevant in terms of time if you have whites present during the entire course of the battle w/elites unless you some how manage to kill the elites before the white mobs which even with maxed damage vs elites is going to be tough to do.

While you do loose out on some CC. You potentially gain more attacks due to the increased mana pool, and more damage for each of those attacks since as I said above the bonus effects all damage not just Crit which for most people is really only 30-40% of your attacks IF you get lucky on your rolls. There is some magic number between say 50-60% CC and up where you may see the benefits of a standard ring over a SOJ but only if that CC ring is what pushing you over that mark. Otherwise you are theoretically on average doing more standard attacks then crit so all you are loosing is the "Fake DPS" of CC. Yes that's right I said it, cc is just damage modifier, like IAS, and CD. Since CC/CD is also based off chance in some cases you are better off increasing your bottom line and getting the constant damage vs elites over chance damage vs all.

Then of course there are all the other class specific perks which improve your build over all, and the 6% percent damage across the board if you have a black damage weapon. (for me that works out to 1000 per %.)
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 1:20 PM PST
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I've never liked the SOJ. Maybe for uber fights and that's it.

You did the math, came up with +15% vs elites, and yet... maybe it's good for ubers?

Your thought process makes no sense to me.


Well if you see my second post it might clear things up. There are always other options.
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The Elemental damage boost is nice but it sucks that it adds little to Manajuma and I can't afford a black damage weapon that is close to manajuma properties.


Its not "little" its just not "all"

Max Manajama roll base dps is
71-288
This is then modified by the %, which can be max 50%>
So max after 50% is
107-432 avg dmg = 269.5
Max poison damage is
286-667 avg dmg = 476.5

However, we know that you can easily get a mojo with +200-300 avg damage, and you can also get rings / amulets etc
Lets use Jibikao as an example.
His Mojo is +266 Avg dmg,
Ring 27.5 avg Dmg.

Therefor his total Avg Black damage is
269.5+266+27.5= 563
His Avg Poison dmg is 276.5
Total Avg Dmg = 1030.5
Percentage of black damage to overall dmg = 54.6%

Therefore, using very basic math, (and of course using a perfectly rolled Manaj assuming max poison dmg and +50% physcial) 54.6% of your damage is "black"

A lower rolled Manaj would probably mean you have a higher percentage of black damage since the poison would be less.

So lets say you have a 5% SoJ.
We could extrapolate that you would gain 5%*.546= 2.732% overall damage from a 5% ring.
Edited by Xarkar#1840 on 11/30/2012 1:23 PM PST
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I've never liked the SOJ. Maybe for uber fights and that's it.

You did the math, came up with +15% vs elites, and yet... maybe it's good for ubers?

Your thought process makes no sense to me.


Well if you see my second post it might clear things up. There are always other options.


Comparing vs. a godly trifecta rare ring is invalid. Unless, that is, I can buy one for ~30M.

If you have one to sell me for that price, then I will happily consider this argument settled in your favor. =p
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