Diablo® III

What do you think of a Stone of Jordan?

I currently use a mana spiders build (what my profile shows). So mana on the SOJ is not an issue for my build.


Yes but a -10 mana on Bear should be worth something and you get another 100ish mana on top. For a bear build, mana = damage. And really, with or without SOJ, Bear should maul through trash enemies just fine. It is elites that are causing problems?

I feel there are only a few runes that are worth SOJ: SB, Bear and Firebats. The rest are okay.
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@ Brahm - If the % were calculated just on base damage, the results would be only a couple percentage points in favor of the SOJ because the change in crit damage doesn't matter.

However, again if I wanted to fool with base damage I could by using IAS on the replaced ring and PtV which also affects base damage.

I gave an example with my gear to show that is just another choice.

Nothing is always the best choice.
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It's not invalid the thing to remember about a SOJ is since it's based of %. It will always scale with the rest of you gear. So if you have a godly tri in one ring slot, your soj will work even better.

30% is 30% @
100k it's 30k bonus
200k it's 60k bonus
300k it's 90k bonus
and on and on.

I've spec'd out top unites, and when I'm buffed I can hit 300k-350k depending on a couple gear options. I have yet to be able to link a single ring from the AH the will give me in theory 90k+ bonus damage, and I've been looking.
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@ Brahm - If the % were calculated just on base damage, the results would be only a couple percentage points in favor of the SOJ because the change in crit damage doesn't matter.

However, again if I wanted to fool with base damage I could by using IAS on the replaced ring and PtV which also affects base damage.

I gave an example with my gear to show that is just another choice.

Nothing is always the best choice.


But they aren't. They calculate in all your damage. If I crit w/a SOJ the % vs elites multiples that crit. Which is why I can do massive amounts more damage vs elites with crits, then trash mobs.

Your example is irrelevant though. I could run PTV with a SOJ and get even more damage, and I would more likely be able to run it because of the added resource benifits of a SOJ.

What SOJ and the rest of my combo allows me to do is NOT use spiders. I can run primaryless spam builds. Be it Acid, or bears, or bats. That means more damage over all. It frees me up from VQ which does nothing but give me a straight mana %. It also frees up a active skill slot from that low damage primary. It allows me to do so in conjunction with attack speed due to the reduction cost I'm getting -20 per bear, which @ 1.5as is the same a 30mps.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 1:31 PM PST
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I currently use a mana spiders build (what my profile shows). So mana on the SOJ is not an issue for my build.


Yes but a -10 mana on Bear should be worth something and you get another 100ish mana on top. For a bear build, mana = damage. And really, with or without SOJ, Bear should maul through trash enemies just fine. It is elites that are causing problems?

I feel there are only a few runes that are worth SOJ: SB, Bear and Firebats. The rest are okay.


I haven't added a crit Pox to my gear to complete the Zuni set and thus receive the mana bonuses, and I still have no trouble spamming bears at a good clip with my build in MP7, which is my new home as of today.
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If we do the above math specifically for Jibikao's weapon, we would come to the following results,

Avg black damage on weapon
107-432 avg dmg = 269.5
Avg Poison on weapon
256-550, avg dmg 403

Mojo 266
Ring 27.5
Total 966

Total black dmg = 563 which is 58.28%

Now we know that he also has 13% elemental dmg (8% trail, 5% SoJ). 13%*.5828=7.58%

Meaning you lose approximatly 5.4% DPS (from + elemental) because your weapon isnt black dmg.

Another thing to keep in mind is if your weapon was black dmg, with +50% you would gain 403*.5=201.5 more average damage because the +50% applies to physical, which means your base weapon damage would be significantly higher (about 30% rofl).
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11/30/2012 01:26 PMPosted by Brahm
But they aren't. They calculate in all your damage. If I crit w/a SOJ the % vs elites multiples that crit. Which is why I can do massive amounts more damage vs elites with crits, then trash mobs.


Your massive amount more is somewhere around 15% depending on what else you could use besides the SOJ.

What we are really talking about here is the opportunity cost of not using your best ring and replacing it with an SOJ. What is the damage difference between the two rings?

In my case it looks like half the old rings damage is added to elite damage and half the old rings damage is deducted from white damage.

I don't switch gear, so I run how I run, unless I am only fighting ubers and then I will use an SOJ.
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Another thing to keep in mind is if your weapon was black dmg, with +50% you would gain 403*.5=201.5 more average damage because the +50% applies to physical, which means your base weapon damage would be significantly higher (about 30% rofl).


You are making me regret on this manajuma purchase! I spent all my 80mil... T_T

lol

But I've tried searching for a black damage that matches Manajuma properties and they are way out of my budget.
Edited by Jibikao#1131 on 11/30/2012 1:36 PM PST
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You are making me regret on this manajuma purchase! I spent all my 80mil... T_T


I think you're ripe for LS Skorn conversion! ;) Do it! You know you want one.

Think of all the black damage on that Skorn! :0
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/30/2012 1:44 PM PST
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But they aren't. They calculate in all your damage. If I crit w/a SOJ the % vs elites multiples that crit. Which is why I can do massive amounts more damage vs elites with crits, then trash mobs.


Your massive amount more is somewhere around 15% depending on what else you could use besides the SOJ.

What we are really talking about here is the opportunity cost of not using your best ring and replacing it with an SOJ. What is the damage difference between the two rings?

In my case it looks like half the old rings damage is added to elite damage and half the old rings damage is deducted from white damage.

I don't switch gear, so I run how I run, unless I am only fighting ubers and then I will use an SOJ.


I'm not sure if you math is right, I'm not going to take the time to go threw it to be honest. But as I said it's damage across the board so I'm hitting NON crits for well over a 100k in most cases, and..15% ON TOP of what I could do with a CC/CD/INT ring isn't a lot of damage? Lets just say the bonus vs elites some how is 15% then I get another 6% (or in my case 5%) because of the elemental damage so that's 20% across the board which means when I crit for 1m normally I'm critting for 1.2m w/a SOJ. That's insignificant, but with that said some how your math is off. Because I'm critting trash on the upper end up to 900-1m, and I'm critting elites on the upper end 1.5-1.8. These are the numbers I'm seeing. Not some formula, not theory..the real numbers showing up on the screen. I do also have another 6% from my serpent though so I'm @ 34% with my combo

I to don't swap gear. Trash isn't an issue, I want to equalize the trash with the elites.

oh and as I said above. I get in theory 90k dps boost vs elites with 30% vs elits when buffed @ 300k. When I check rings I check top of the line unity with high CD (45+), bonus damage, CC, and 150+ int... They all came in between 45-57 dps boost. Sooo the math is off some where. I will gladly admit that I don't know exactly how SOJ handles it's damage calculation Does the damage vs elites all stack together then multiple, do they each multiple off each other ie if I have 2 damage vs elites items or 3 is the forumla (dmg)(dve1)(dve2)(dve3) or is it (dmg)(dve1+dve2+dve3) these sort of things can make HUGE difference in how it works. Same with how % damage is added. There can be a lot of little tweaks in the internal function that we simply don't know.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 1:53 PM PST
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@ Braham

The easiest way to tell the difference is to put your best other ring on in the place of the SOJ and see what numbers you get.

I don't know what gear you have. I'm just putting a different view point out there. Those numbers were based on my gear. It may not work that way for you depending on what other ring you could use.

As far as a discussion of black damage goes. My Skorn is all black damage so it is not an issue in my case. I gave the DPS change based on my gear.

I don't know what other rings any of you have.

If PtV is assumed in my case with the ring on and off, then my damage % would be greater without SOJ. SOJ lowers my damage 10K so I lose 20% x 10,000 or 2000 more DPS to use SOJ.

It all comes down to what is your best ring besides the SOJ. How much damage does this ring do compared to when the SOJ is equipped?

The calculation is different for everyone.
Edited by skywalkerfx#1247 on 11/30/2012 1:56 PM PST
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You are making me regret on this manajuma purchase! I spent all my 80mil... T_T


You wouldnt be able to afford a balck dmg 1h with crit / socket / LS that has similar rolls for 80m =0

The CK is a great buy because it comes with predefined stats we want. Is it BIS? No of course not, but its likely the best bang for your buck.
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@ Braham

The easiest way to tell the difference is to put your best other ring on in the place of the SOJ and see what numbers you get.

I don't know what gear you have. I'm just pointing a different view point out there. Those numbers were based on my gear. It may not work that way for you depending on what other ring you could use.

As far as a discussion of black damage goes. My Skorn is all black damage so it is not an issue in my case. I gave the DPS change based on my gear.

I don't know what other rings any of you have.

If PtV is assumed in my case with the ring on and off, then my damage % would be greater without SOJ. SOJ lowers my damage 10K so I lose 20% x 10,000 or 2000 more DPS to use SOJ.

It all comes down to what is your best ring besides the SOJ. How much damage does this ring do compared to when the SOJ is equipped.

The calculation is different for everyone.


You don't think I already did all that, read my post I'm comparing it to the top of the line Unity, I also ran it against all my old cc/cd rings. If you want go back and read my first posts on the issue I was very skeptical about SOJ. You are over thinking it. PTV is irrelevant bonus vs elites scales with all damage. Even if soj does nothing but cut the number of spider attacks you need relative to the amount of bears you fire off you will be ahead. Put on a SOJ, go smash some elites for a couple days note the highs.. Go back to your other ring and do the same. To much forum farming isn't good for you! Go play! ;)
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 2:04 PM PST
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@Brahm

You crit 900-1000K vs. normal, 1.5M-1.8M vs elites, but that's with the SOJ on in both cases. That just means SOJ is working as advertised.

As far as I can tell, the +15% number skyfx came up with was meant to compare SOJ vs. some other high DPS ring you could be wearing in that slot instead... against elites. Of course it's true that you give up some stats to wear the SOJ.

Your demonstration of how the SOJ elite bonus gets even better as DPS goes up is helpfull, thanks.

I think we (finally) all agree that (at least!) against elites, and thus vs. ubers, the SOJ has to be BIS.

You also convinced me to try wearing my SOJ for keyfarming. It might still be a bad tradeoff for me b/c I have much less DPS than you. We'll see.
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11/30/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Xarkar
You are making me regret on this manajuma purchase! I spent all my 80mil... T_T


You wouldnt be able to afford a balck dmg 1h with crit / socket / LS that has similar rolls for 80m =0

The CK is a great buy because it comes with predefined stats we want. Is it BIS? No of course not, but its likely the best bang for your buck.


I am fine with CK doing a bit less damage if it also comes with some +mana regen. That will make it a perfect "Class" weapon. Wizard's set wand that has Arcane on critical (but they don't have LS).
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11/30/2012 02:00 PMPosted by Brahm
To much forum farming isn't good for you! Go play! ;)


Good advice.;) Alright back to the Auction House. -Sigh-
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@Worloega - I also have an additional 6% vs elites from my mojo so YMMV if you only get a soj, but with that said. VS ubers I use a pile on build. I was critting for 2.5m+ with my 1h combo, and 4.5m w/a skorn! I started using the SOJ around the same dps as you and have rebuilt around.

In all honestly I would LOVE to find a better ring. There are serious downsides to a SOJ. It's a DPS/Resource ONLY slot if we had some sort healing spell that was mana intensive then it would be much more valuable but we don't. Even if a SOJ doesn't cost a lot, the biggest down side if you need to spend extra money on your other gear to make up for the potential loss of Vit, Armour, AR, LOH, int, or whatever other affixes you could have in that ring slot.. that gets pricey fast when you are looking at top of the line gear.

IMOP the only valid argument as to why not to use a SOJ all the time is the above. Which is why I only use it on my WD, and can't afford to use it on my barb (yet)..other gear won't support the slot going pure dps.
Edited by Brahm#1943 on 11/30/2012 2:18 PM PST
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ITS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE MARA'S YOU GET TO GO WITH IT.

there. truth hath been spoketh.
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ITS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE MARA'S YOU GET TO GO WITH IT.

there. truth hath been spoketh.


OH no you didn't.. You just had to bring that up. MR I have 100 accounts that I pay Tibetans monks to level up for me and post arguments with myself so I can with a 10cc/100cd zero dog amulet for 2.6b but give to my follower for the lolz.. wait was that how it went down i got so lost in the cross fire between here and jsp on that thread.
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lol brahm you are in quite the troll-y mood today.

please dont tell me he gave it to his follower.

seriously. that kinda !@#$ isnt funny... at all.

i am curious what happened to that guy and his 2.3 Billion gold ammy.
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