Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

May I ask if there are any differences in damage if I switch gears to increase attack speed after I cast sweeping wind?
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12/05/2012 07:15 PMPosted by BabyM
May I ask if there are any differences in damage if I switch gears to increase attack speed after I cast sweeping wind?


The more ias that you have the more spirit you will need to sustain invite TR so that's why the less IAS the better it is.
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Now I'm thinking about switching my soj to one with sweeping winds instead of TR since im using innerstorm and not worried about high CC to spawn cyclones.
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12/05/2012 07:25 PMPosted by MrNastyTime
May I ask if there are any differences in damage if I switch gears to increase attack speed after I cast sweeping wind?


The more ias that you have the more spirit you will need to sustain invite TR so that's why the less IAS the better it is.


But if I can generate 14 spirits and I only using 11 spirits, I can switch to 3 x 9% AS gear. Just wondering if there will be any increase in damage to justify the switch.
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Sry double post
Edited by BabyM#1738 on 12/5/2012 10:40 PM PST
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You certainly want your IAS gear on when you snapshot Sweeping Wind, all else being equal. It won't be captured in the tornado damage, but it will be captured in the vortex. The rest is all min-maxing, number-crunching, and maintaining an overhead of 1 spirit per second so you can use Fulminating Onslaught against elites. If you're generating 14 and spending 11 without those IAS bonuses, I believe you want to cut off your IAS after he first two 9% increases. That will put you at "generating 14, spending 13," which leaves enough room for FO on demand.
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Thanks vrkhyz! So I guess I should put on all attack speed gears before activate sweeping wind for max damage output. Then I switch back to TR gears for lower spirits consummation.
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Nice guide!

Now someone needs to make a guide based on my build/2hander... it was dirt cheap and I'm gaining XP faster than with my old $200+ gear.
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Just want to clarify if TR really doesn't proc LoH?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Druin

Thanks for all the info. Ive been experimenting for a few days and have come up with a good build. Currently my profile shows a pretty decent LS SKorn which I used the last couple of days and paid about 50M for it. I just purchased a 1450 DPS Skorn for 15M with no LS or Vit that took me from 136K to 153K dps. This allowed me to change from MOC/submission to MOH/CB for the 3% spirit regen and Im actually building spirit. This allows me to not have to worry about the xepherian amulet which to me you lose way too much damage and the costs on those with high CC are just crazy and there arent many of them.


Thanks! I am glad you found this guide useful!

I completely agree that LS Skorns and CHC Xeph ammys are generally out of the price range for most monks and when I finally get the gear together to make a mid-tier build I will make sure to account for that!

Edit: after running another 2 hours

I went back to MOC/Submission and changed the rune in sweeping winds to innerstorm which works much better. I was having to pass through some packs twice to kill them but with this set up I dont have to.


That is very interesting. I would have thought that Cyclone + MoH:Circ would be better than Innterstorm + MoC:Submission.

I will definitely look into these two combos and try and figure out why it doesn't work that way for you.

Very cool that you are trying both ways though. It makes me happy to see people experimenting ... that is by far the best way to get to a perfected build!

Druin, anyone, please do feedback on gear/combo, thanks.


I like your gear setup. It's very clean and you have a lot of average damage mods which actually rock pretty hard for the TR build because they promote damage spread a lot better than CHD.

I think you would benefit greatly from a high TR crit SoJ if you are looking to stick with the Cyclone build.

If you don't want to Cyclone, I am working on a Firestorm build but I still can't tweak items enough to make it efficient yet.

The gist is overawe instead of submission, DR:Foresight instead of FoT and you don't take SSS. When you get to elite packs, you just hit MoC:Overawe for the additional 24% damage and they all die at roughly the same speed.

I think your gear is good enough to support Cyclone though so I would sincerely look into that TR Crit SoJ.

Druin, what tool do you use to record video and exp please?

I use Fraps to record all my computer gaming.
I use Adobe Premier Pro to edit and render them.

Finally got around to reading this and watching the first video! Druin, you did a great, great thing. This is really good writing, your presentation is top-notch, and your rationales are always well-explained. You put a lot of care into this, and it shows. I'm looking forward to watching the mechanics video. Also, thanks a bunch for the thank-you. Much appreciated.

<3

I noticed a couple small typo-like errors on the first page, which might confuse some readers who aren't familiar with the actual numbers. The most notable was this:


Oops! Thanks Vrk!

Finally, I came across a two-handed axe that might be useful for budget monks who want to run this build:


If you were looking to do some TRing with your self-found monk, that Axe would be a good place to start.

For monks who have access to the AH to get their gear, its relatively low DPS (for a 2h) and lack of CHD and IAS all make it a sub-optimal TR wep.

The AH is simply too flooded with sincerely good items to make anything that isn't 6-good-stat really worth it. :(

May I ask if there are any differences in damage if I switch gears to increase attack speed after I cast sweeping wind?


SW does not "lock" or "snap" attack speed so if you equip extra attack speed after casting SW, your SW will hit harder.

Now I'm thinking about switching my soj to one with sweeping winds instead of TR since im using innerstorm and not worried about high CC to spawn cyclones.

If you are not using Cyclone, there is no way in heck a TR crit SoJ beats out a SW damage SoJ for effectiveness! Good call! :D

But if I can generate 14 spirits and I only using 11 spirits, I can switch to 3 x 9% AS gear. Just wondering if there will be any increase in damage to justify the switch.


Generally speaking, due to the reasons I presented in my guide for TR not scaling well with Attack speed, if you have excess spirit/sec, you are much better off simply dropping spir/sec items in favor of higher DPS or Leoric's signet.

If, for example, you have 14 spir/sec gain and 11 spir/sec cost, you can flat out drop a 2spir/sec item (xeph ammy or SoJ) and replace it with a MUCH higher DPS items.

You can also just get 3x 9%IAS items but you will see a significantly lower overall gain to your character's effectiveness.
That being said, the 3x 9% IAS items WILL increase the damage of your SW.

You certainly want your IAS gear on when you snapshot Sweeping Wind, all else being equal. It won't be captured in the tornado damage, but it will be captured in the vortex. The rest is all min-maxing, number-crunching, and maintaining an overhead of 1 spirit per second so you can use Fulminating Onslaught against elites. If you're generating 14 and spending 11 without those IAS bonuses, I believe you want to cut off your IAS after he first two 9% increases. That will put you at "generating 14, spending 13," which leaves enough room for FO on demand.


Going to want to check your math on that one Vrk. The exact opposite is actually true. SW does not snap-shot attack speed so you are much better off having 0 IAS when you cast SW then lots of IAS when you are running around.

It is definitely true that IAS will not increase your Cyclone damage under any circumstances, however you do proc slightly more Cyclones/second if you have higher IAS. (this effect is GREATLY diminished for TR compared to other skills due to the knockback)

Thanks vrkhyz! So I guess I should put on all attack speed gears before activate sweeping wind for max damage output. Then I switch back to TR gears for lower spirits consummation.


As I mentioned above, SW DOES NOT snapshot IAS. You will gain 0 dps by equipping your IAS gear before casting SW then switching back to normal gear.

You are much better off just casting SW wth w/e gear gives you the highest possible DPS but doesn't use IAS.

Nice guide!

Now someone needs to make a guide based on my build/2hander... it was dirt cheap and I'm gaining XP faster than with my old $200+ gear.


Thank you very much!

I actually looked into a Maximus Firestorm build, however, because of the way SW snapshots its damage, there was no possible way to make a maximus Firestorm do more damage than a Skorn Firestorm. :(

This made me sad but that is how Blizz wants it I guess! :P

Note: isn't your build just the cookie-cutter with Maximus+Firestorm instead of WKL + Cyclone?

(Maybe profile didn't update? Or even better, maybe you are abusing the proc from Maximus in some way I am not even thinking of yet?!?!?!?!?)

Just want to clarify if TR really doesn't proc LoH?


As stated in my guide, TR has a Proc Coefficient of 0.25 per hit.

This means that if you have 1000LoH, each hit of TR will heal you for 250.

TR hits 3 times per second and hits multiple mobs so it can end up healing you for a fair amount through LoH although it will never heal you for the amount that LS can because LoH does not effect Sweeping Winds.
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See, that's what I get for posting after midnight. I was thinking . . . SW essentially spits out 45% of your DPS, doesn't it? Perhaps you can point me to a post about the math behind this troublesome skill and its random +20% white crits.
Edited by Vrkhyz#1472 on 12/6/2012 4:29 AM PST
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Is TR actually efficient on anything other than MP0? My old TR monk was at 135K DPS and still I found only MP0 worth doing as TR+SW couldnt 1 shot above MP0. On the other hand my current Archon Wiz can do MP 3/4 like its MP0.
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Druin,

First, I'd like to thank you for putting this awesome guide. It gave me a good start and inspiration to find what works best for my setup. If you have the chance, could you have a look thru my profile and let me know your thoughts?

For the last couple of weeks, i've tried many many setups for countless hours...

Things I've tried:
all combinations of FoT/Deadly Reach + Bladestorm/Firestorm/Cyclone + Overawe/Submission

My musings:
1. Deadly Reach > FoT in terms of efficiency (it's worth locking in that damage)
2. Bladestorm > Cyclones if you have the DPS to 1 pass big monsters.
3. Firestorm > Bladestorm if you have even more DPS to 1 pass big monsters.
4. Cyclones > Bladestorm > Firestorm if you don't have the DPS and need to 2+ pass
5. Overawe > Submission if it pushes to the 1 pass range
6. Submission > Overawe if you still have to 2+ pass

I find that with my current DPS with %SW damage on my SOJ, Deadly Reach + Firestorm + Overawe works wonders. It 1 passes just about every white mob (even Golgors and non-shielding Tremors). Firestorm's range also encompasses almost the entire hallway of Keep, Crater, and Rakkis. When I try to farm MP1, Cyclones + Submission is superior.

Am I off the reservation here?

TL;DR: If I have the DPS, running Deadly Reach + Firestorm + Overawe may be better?
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Wow Pudding - your gear is absurdly good. I have no doubt that firestorm wins out with that kind of setup!
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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12/06/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Vrkhyz
See, that's what I get for posting after midnight. I was thinking . . . SW essentially spits out 45% of your DPS, doesn't it? Perhaps you can point me to a post about the math behind this troublesome skill and its random +20% white crits.


The 20% white crit thing is MoC:Submission! lol!

Poor Vrk.

There is a SW thread somewhere but I don't know if it is linked anywhere and I am having some trouble finding it!

I can explain it in game if you want.

12/06/2012 05:58 AMPosted by Dabrixmgp
Is TR actually efficient on anything other than MP0? My old TR monk was at 135K DPS and still I found only MP0 worth doing as TR+SW couldnt 1 shot above MP0. On the other hand my current Archon Wiz can do MP 3/4 like its MP0.


TR is basically only effective on MP0.

You could make an argument that at high enough DPS, with enough expensive gear, you could use TR on MP1 or maybe even higher, but I haven't seen that yet! :D


First, I'd like to thank you for putting this awesome guide. It gave me a good start and inspiration to find what works best for my setup. If you have the chance, could you have a look thru my profile and let me know your thoughts?


TYVM and your profile looks fantastic! Keep up the good work!

My musings:
1. Deadly Reach > FoT in terms of efficiency (it's worth locking in that damage)
2. Bladestorm > Cyclones if you have the DPS to 1 pass big monsters.
3. Firestorm > Bladestorm if you have even more DPS to 1 pass big monsters.
4. Cyclones > Bladestorm > Firestorm if you don't have the DPS and need to 2+ pass
5. Overawe > Submission if it pushes to the 1 pass range
6. Submission > Overawe if you still have to 2+ pass


I somewhat agree with you here.
My only issue is that, due to the gigantic variance you can see in SW damage, there is no way to know if you will 1 shot everything or not.

A guy with 200k paperdoll DPS could fail to 1shot a monster that a guy with 100k paperdoll DPS kills instantly due to the nature of SW damage's flux. This is mostly caused by CHD.

Because of this, I find that Bladestorm is just bad. It increases the %of crit you need to kill a given mob, but because your full crits were already 1shotting things, Bladestorm's extra DPS is simply wasted in all those cases.

If SW did a static amount of damage per tick or per second, I would 100% agree with you but it doesn't and so you end up wasting a LOT of potential kill-power with Bladestorm and even with Firestorm though I am growing to like Firestorm more as I play around with it.

This is the same issue with MoC:Overawe vs Submission btw! :D
Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 8:32 AM PST
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I just purchased a 1450 DPS Skorn for 15M with no LS or Vit that took me from 136K to 153K dps. This allowed me to change from MOC/submission to MOH/CB for the 3% spirit regen and Im actually building spirit. This allows me to not have to worry about the xepherian amulet which to me you lose way too much damage and the costs on those with high CC are just crazy and there arent many of them.


Thanks! I am glad you found this guide useful!I completely agree that LS Skorns and CHC Xeph ammys are generally out of the price range for most monks and when I finally get the gear together to make a mid-tier build I will make sure to account for that!


CHC Xeph's easily jump to 20m whenever it hit the AH...

i bought a cheapo Skorn (1.2m) to play, 1257dps, 400dex,100 vit, 188CHD + OS, it bring my dps from 70k to 98k, quite happy with that.. when my HP goes to btm, i just keep running to pick up the next health globe..

i was using cheap daibo (1032 dps daibo/150dex/188% critdmg/6.0%LS/OS/1.10AS) before that...
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Although I agree that Maximus is inferior for farming exp and killing efficiency I just had to try it. Man its fun! Being a swirling ball of flame and a demon with a 2h sword and fire chains is more fun but admittedly less efficient.
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Thanks for the reply!

The issue i have with Cyclones (even on mp0) is that it procs somewhat inconsistently for me. That forces me to occassionally do some circling in order to generate a cyclone and move on. If i were to do some circling at my DPS, the monster is dead anyways. I'm finding that this is also a ton of wasted damage. I guess i can compare my inconsistent proc rate to the SW damage variance. IMO it may be a push.

The variance on SW damage is the very reason why I opted getting %SW damage and using Overawe. It effectively shifts the damage curve X% to the right; giving me a better chance of 1 passing. Ideally, it should be such that the low damage (of the variance) should be enough to 1 pass the smaller monsters and the nominal damage + maybe 1 sigma off (of variance) should be enough to 1 pass the bigger monsters. Any outliers, surviving monsters, should be left anyways.
Edited by PuddingHead#1779 on 12/6/2012 9:21 AM PST
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Really great stuff Druin, I have been testing alot with TR myself lately and landed mostly on the same conclusions as you have.

I've tried Firestorm with Skorn, Mace and Maximus, but for me the damage cannot quite add up to let me oneshot everything. So it just cannot measure up to what I get from using cyclones. I ended up using a 0.9 AS Mace instead of the Skorn since it allows me to have infinite TR even without my 8.5% CC Xeph. I still need Exalted instead of Fleeting, but I feel that is a small tradeoff for beeing able to cut the Xeph.

My profile shows my "wind-up"-gear, I switch to a 2.27 SPR, 7% TR CC SoJ and Innas with 2.35 SPR, 5.5 CC while doing the actual run. Which leaves me somewhere between 45-50% CC and a decent amount of cyclones.

I thought about one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, and that is switching to Combination Strike before starting up SW for another 8% damage. Then just switch back to whatever passive you usually use when you start the run. Would this work at all?

Also I really don't know where to put money on new gear now, so if anyone has any tips that would be more than welcome :)

Profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/zen-2888/hero/5069724
Edited by zen#2888 on 12/6/2012 9:08 AM PST
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lifesteal on the skorn is definitly not necessary if you have some pickup radius to get health globes as you kill stuff. Deadly reach with foresight is definitely the way to go with this build.

Is cyclones over bladestorm really worth it in mp0 though? Have you done any testing on this druin?
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