Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

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I bought 2 other Skorns last night to experiment around with besides the one that I have with life steal. One has dex+299 vita and the other one is dex+life after each kill. I wanted to try these out because they have higher DPS than the one that I have with life steal I just haven't had time to actually play around with it yet though but I will post my experience after I play around with it some this weekend to see if life steal is a necessity.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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The issue i have with Cyclones (even on mp0) is that it procs somewhat inconsistently for me. That forces me to occassionally do some circling in order to generate a cyclone and move on. If i were to do some circling at my DPS, the monster is dead anyways. I'm finding that this is also a ton of wasted damage. I guess i can compare my inconsistent proc rate to the SW damage variance. IMO it may be a push.


I promise that you are going to want to do xp/hr testing on this.

When I used Firestorm and Bladestorm it always FELT realllllly good. I would think to myself "oh man, I am making SO much xp right now!!!" and at the end of an hour session I would clock my xp and clock my time and BAM 8-10m LESS xp/hr?!?!?!

This happened consistently enough for me to conclude that even though Firestorm and Bladestorm FEEL good and the Cyclones proc rarely enough to FEEL bad, the numbers simply don't agree.

In the end I figured out that Cyclones are just doing a TON of work when they do spawn, and when they don't you just keep running anyways and it ends up being more efficient.

The variance on SW damage is the very reason why I opted getting %SW damage and using Overawe. It effectively shifts the damage curve X% to the right; giving me a better chance of 1 passing. Ideally, it should be such that the low damage (of the variance) should be enough to 1 pass the smaller monsters and the nominal damage + maybe 1 sigma off (of variance) should be enough to 1 pass the bigger monsters. Any outliers, surviving monsters, should be left anyways.


The problem with raising your MIN damage is that, due to CHD, when SW crits too much, you lose a TON of efficiency due to overkill.

This is not the case with MoC:Sub which doesn't crit and simply increases its damage per tick as you increase your CHD.

Similarly, Firestorm and Cyclone both spread out the damage they deal over a wider area and over more hits for less damage than Bladestorm.

Furthermore, because SW does continuous damage, the extra 4 yard range on firestorm will almost always equate to the same or more damage done than Bladestorm as long as you are constantly moving. (Obviously when standing still the increased radius does nothing)

Example: 1 second spend taking 60% weapon damage is the same as 1.33 seconds spend taking 45% weapon damage. Because firestorm gets to the monster 4 yards sooner and leaves the monster 4 yards later, you have an increased linear travel distance per monster of ~40% (28/20). You only need 33% to make Firestorm out DPS Bladestorm.

Furthermore, Firestorm can take make some monsters take damage when they would otherwise take zero which gives you a chance to crit-OHK those monsters for added experience.

Really great stuff Druin, I have been testing alot with TR myself lately and landed mostly on the same conclusions as you have.


Thanks!

I thought about one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, and that is switching to Combination Strike before starting up SW for another 8% damage. Then just switch back to whatever passive you usually use when you start the run. Would this work at all?


This absolutely does work, however it would greatly decrease your xp/hr in the aggregate because you would have to take the time to start this up every single run and that could take upwards of 1 minute for each 6 minute long run which is a gigantic loss of efficiency!

The same can be said for any elaborate SW-lock trickery. (Flying dragon + BF:FitL swap for example)

Is cyclones over bladestorm really worth it in mp0 though? Have you done any testing on this druin?


I have spent many many many many hours testing this yes. :D

Cyclone > Bladestorm in every single circumstance that I could come up with.
Edited by Druin#1518 on 12/6/2012 10:52 AM PST
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Thanks for this guide. I've been trying it out for the last few paragon levels and at 140k dps it feels more efficient than my 210k dual-wield cyclone build. I have a few questions. I'm not sure if you'd know the answers. Sorry if you've answered these before.

When you re-cast Sweeping Wind before its timer runs out to keep its stacks, does it take a new snapshot of your dps or keep the old one? So should I re-cast Blinding Flash before I re-cast each Sweeping Wind in this case to keep my Sweeping Wind damage high or is that unnecessary?

Does Mantra of Conviction: Submission also take a snapshot of your dps and thus benefit from Blinding Flash too?

As for my experiences with Tempest Rush, having tried a Xephirian Amulet, losing 30k dps noticeably slows me down, so I'm still using my regular amulet. Also, I prefer Firestorm too for the extra range since mobs have to survive all my other skills before Tempest Rush even gets a chance to hit (for a chance at a crit). The result of running Cyclone w/ 41% CC is I only get a handful of Cyclones appearing per zone. Firestorm with a Sweeping Wind Stone of Jordan feels better with my build.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Thanks for this guide.


No problem!

When you re-cast Sweeping Wind before its timer runs out to keep its stacks, does it take a new snapshot of your dps or keep the old one? So should I re-cast Blinding Flash before I re-cast each Sweeping Wind in this case to keep my Sweeping Wind damage high or is that unnecessary?


It does not re-snapshot when you do this and you do not need to re-cast Faith. Just don't let SW die completely or you will have to re-snap it.

Does Mantra of Conviction: Submission also take a snapshot of your dps and thus benefit from Blinding Flash too?


MoC:Sub does not snap and there is no way to permanently increase its dps.

As for my experiences with Tempest Rush, having tried a Xephirian Amulet, losing 30k dps noticeably slows me down, so I'm still using my regular amulet. Also, I prefer Firestorm too for the extra range since mobs have to survive all my other skills before Tempest Rush even gets a chance to hit (for a chance at a crit). The result of running Cyclone w/ 41% CC is I only get a handful of Cyclones appearing per zone. Firestorm with a Sweeping Wind Stone of Jordan feels better with my build.


I am glad you are enjoying Firestorm! Calc those xp/hr numbers if you want to know for sure what is better! ;)
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hi, i kinda suck badly at finding the correct item for my monk... so if possible can anyone tell me which parts of my current gears do i have to change to make this build work...? i only know i have to get a skorn...

thanks in advance!
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Which is better? I can either take:

MoC:Submisson with Sweeping Wind:Inner storm
--OR--
MoH:Circular Breathing with Sweeping Wind:Cyclone

Even with 40% crit chance I didnt find myself proccing too many Cyclones and whenever I did they went the OPPOSITE way hardly ever hitting anything. Is the 100% uptime on Submission damage better than RNG Cycones that might hit the mobs or they might go the other way?
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Don't forget guys that there is another way other then soj to get TR crits, and that would be skull grasp ring witch has more crit then soj considering that it can get 6% crit chance AND TR crit 6% all in the same ring. That would give you a possible 12% crit chance (on a perfect ring) witch is WAY more powerful then soj.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Which is better? I can either take:

MoC:Submisson with Sweeping Wind:Inner storm
--OR--
MoH:Circular Breathing with Sweeping Wind:Cyclone

Even with 40% crit chance I didnt find myself proccing too many Cyclones and whenever I did they went the OPPOSITE way hardly ever hitting anything. Is the 100% uptime on Submission damage better than RNG Cycones that might hit the mobs or they might go the other way?


You sir, did not watch my mechanics video! :D

Cyclones will always go the direction that you were facing when you cast SW the first time.

The argument between MoH:Circ + SW:Cyclone vs MoC:Sum + SW:Inner is a very good one and something I really have to do more research on before I will know the answer.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I simply don't know the answer for now!

What I DO know is that from an xp/hr standpoint, Cyclone is much better than it FEELS and you should be careful to not underestimate its effect.
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Druin,

Just to confirm something, in order for Cyclone to proc, it would need a Critical Hits correct? If that so, the "crit" that would spawn Cyclone would be the TR crits only?

Meaning, SoJ with TR crit chance would be best?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Druin,

Just to confirm something, in order for Cyclone to proc, it would need a Critical Hits correct? If that so, the "crit" that would spawn Cyclone would be the TR crits only?

Meaning, SoJ with TR crit chance would be best?


Correct. The only way Cyclones can proc is if a skill with a Proc Coefficient > 0 then Crits.

TR has a proc C of 0.25 so 1 out of every 4 Crits will proc a Cyclone (on average).

SW has a Proc C of 0.00 so it can not proc Cyclones.

Because of this, I believe TR crit SoJ's are better than SW damage SoJ's for this specific build.

For all the other builds SW damage > TR crit.
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Which is better? I can either take:

MoC:Submisson with Sweeping Wind:Inner storm
--OR--
MoH:Circular Breathing with Sweeping Wind:Cyclone

Even with 40% crit chance I didnt find myself proccing too many Cyclones and whenever I did they went the OPPOSITE way hardly ever hitting anything. Is the 100% uptime on Submission damage better than RNG Cycones that might hit the mobs or they might go the other way?


You sir, did not watch my mechanics video! :D

Cyclones will always go the direction that you were facing when you cast SW the first time.

The argument between MoH:Circ + SW:Cyclone vs MoC:Sum + SW:Inner is a very good one and something I really have to do more research on before I will know the answer.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I simply don't know the answer for now!

What I DO know is that from an xp/hr standpoint, Cyclone is much better than it FEELS and you should be careful to not underestimate its effect.


Will run both for a while but for me it feels like I get more out of MoC. Plus since my DPS isnt that high anyways the extra damage is probably better.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Will run both for a while but for me it feels like I get more out of MoC. Plus since my DPS isnt that high anyways the extra damage is probably better.


If it feels like it's better for you, then I would definitely go for it.

Having fun > doing what some guy on the forums says might be mathematically better ... EVERY time! :D
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Druin, can you verify what you posted about SW against this (totally awesome) thread?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6202181225

The author's numbers work with IAS at the time of snapshot; there's really no other way, I think, to explain them. He gets a straight 45% of the DPS of the active weapon when dual-wielding, and he had +16% IAS gear and the +15% DW bonus.
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12/06/2012 04:35 PMPosted by Druin
Having fun > doing what some guy on the forums says might be mathematically better ... EVERY time! :D


QED
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Druin, can you verify what you posted about SW against this (totally awesome) thread?

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6202181225

The author's numbers work with IAS at the time of snapshot; there's really no other way, I think, to explain them. He gets a straight 45% of the DPS of the active weapon when dual-wielding, and he had +16% IAS gear and the +15% DW bonus.


Will talk in game. I am 100% sure of my numbers so I will just have to explain them better! :D
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Thanks for the last review, Druin.

...Xeph drops our dps greatly. ...
...Will try to switch from Cyclone to Innerstorm...


Again, I'm proven wrong and Druin proven right in this build.

Earlier, SSS:FO > MoH:BW ( pop SSS to elite = dat feelin' )
Next, DR:Foresight > FoT:TC
Now, SW:Cyclone > SW:Innerstorm

even when 26k DPS drop from changing amulet, Cyclone reach and its ability to clean up is indispensable. I just wish I could generate more nadoes... FoT become very useless once you have >12spirit/sec. Will try to see if I can afford the better SoJ / Xeph, which kinda impossible considering popularity of this Guide, haha.

90k dps now, ~40M/hour ( it was ~30M/h earlier )

----

Druin, since many of us do workarounds, I think this kind of summary stats will help. e.g.
For top gear build to work (~80M/h exp) using exactly same set of skill, you're recommended to have min of:
12+ spirit/sec ( Templar buffed )
100k dps ( unbuffed )
36%/42% CC ( w/o and w TR crit bonus )
24% MS ( excluding fleet footed )
25k health
400 res
3500 armor
etc?

Edit: better sentences
Edited by vell#6256 on 12/6/2012 10:23 PM PST
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BUILD is SICK!!switched over and am NOT going back...

If you want to save $$ on your skorn, get one with decent life after kill (2000/3000+) instead of LS, much cheaper and it heals more.

It actually is more effective than LS for this build because of how fast you kill enemies... Untested ofc, but i have one and i stay capped, reflect can be a problem, but 7sided takes care of that.
Edited by perfectchaos#1901 on 12/6/2012 9:41 PM PST
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BUILD is SICK!!switched over and am NOT going back...

If you want to save $$ on your skorn, get one with decent life after kill (2000/3000+) instead of LS, much cheaper and it heals more.

It actually is more effective than LS for this build because of how fast you kill enemies... Untested ofc, but i have one and i stay capped, reflect can be a problem, but 7sided takes care of that.

True, tho by yesterday life after kill prices going up. I'm sure some people thought of the idea.

Tried too, find Dex/Vit combo better (again, like Druin said!). Find my health doing fine, probably health globes.

I also don't understand how SSS takes care of reflect damage without letting us get hurt, 0 LS/LoH. Tho its a good thing.
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12/06/2012 10:28 PMPosted by vell
find Dex/Vit combo better


+1, bought my one for 15 mil and manage to stay alive better than a skorn with LS.. Just a hint for everyone interest in this build, i.e you dont need any weapons that LS or LOH but it would help if you have some gears that health globe bonuses and some pick-up radius... I went for a different path to Druin and manage to keep my Nat set in the build... :)
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