Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

I don't use a Skorn with LS or LoH, but just have pickup radius. No reason to overspend on a high DPS+LS or high LoH skorn when you can just pick up health globes because you never stop moving anyway. Also, don't have the budget for a Xeph+CC ammy (they're ridiculously expensive). Instead just use a CC+CHC ammy and SW Inner storm.

I do think I need to upgrade my SoJ, but can't find one that I like for like under 40-50M.

Also would probably like to drop Nats boots and ring combo, but haven't found a replacement for cheap.

Basically I just don't know if I should spend any gold if I'm not getting a ridiculous upgrade for TR build. I think I'm doing pretty well with the setup I have so far.

I added Near Death Experience as my optional passive since I was killing myself too quickly to RD elites. It's worked out pretty well :)
Reply Quote
01/08/2013 09:27 PMPosted by Tranquility
Real nice video. So i'm wondering if my gear is more towards one of your variants.


Thanks!

You have a CHC Xeph ammy and a CHC Hellfire, so you are pretty well set for my main spec.
(which you are using)

I would highly recommend ditching the SW damage SoJ in favor of a TR crit SoJ and getting some nice Zuni boots (would help with your dps a bit and give you 12% more run speed for free!)

Your main goal should be to hit the 100k dps mark without dropping so much mitigation that you start to die.

Good stuff!

01/08/2013 10:09 PMPosted by r3w
Hey druin i was wondering if you could take a look at my profile and see what im missing.. im really close to sustaining spirit while TR'ing with Submission, and as for the hellfire ring, i cant farm past mp2 so i have been unable to grab one yet... i have about 60m.. any suggestions would be appreciated


Well, the reason that your spirit regen isn't quite on the "infinite" level is due to having all your spirit regen pieces at sub-max level.

The SoJ is the biggest culprit there with it's min-roll of 1.0 spir/sec.

As I see it, you have two main paths you can take.
a. Spend a lot of money to get a TR crit SoJ that also has spir/sec.
The upside to this spec is that a 2 spir/sec soj will take you from 10.6 to 12.1 spir/sec.
That is the difference between losing .3 spir/sec and gaining 1.2 spir/sec.
If you choose to go this route, I would recommend switching FoT:TC over to DR:Foresight and keeping SSS:FO.

This change will essentially move you solidly into my main-spec territory and you should be good to go from there on out.

b. Spend all that money on a nice LS Skorn, Zuni boots and higher DPS bracers.
The upside here is that you will probably kill things faster because you will gain a lot of DPS and you will die less because you will be using a LS skorn.
However, because you will be net-negative when TRing, you will need to use FoT:TC and you will want to drop SSS:FO because you will never have the spirit to use it effectively anyways.

This change will essentially move you into Spec Variant C even though you have both an SOJ and a Xeph ammy and you will want to focus on getting your DPS up from then on out.

I think both options are good though, being the writer of this guide, I obviously lean toward option A as I think my end-game build is the best it gets! :D

Good luck!


Thanks for the clarification. Your guide has been very helpful for me.


Glad to hear it and thanks for the support!

Hey Druin, I picked up a Xeph amulet 9.5cc 1.65 SPS and 2878life/kill (the max!:) for 40m.
I've been trying it with Firestorm and Cyclone and it isn't working as well as I hoped. Exp rate seems slightly down and I often run out of spirit especially with SSS. Any advice you can give me here ? I know a tempest rush SOJ would help, but they are so expensive and I can't imagine that would help enough. My old amulet gives me 17%more dps (172k unbuffed, 197k with BoH which I keep up all the time) and a lot more spirit using Inner Storm.


Well, I have no idea. I have never even tried TRing at your level of DPS. TBH I can't imagine anything makes that much difference to you. MP0 only has so much HP and you should be WAY over-kill one-shotting most mobs.

That being said, I have two main points that seem to make sense in my head regarding what you are experiencing.

1. My guess for why you find yourself running out of spirit:
Spirit Spent: 10.9 spir/sec
Spirit Gained: (2.33+2.25+1.65+0.33+2) * 1.47 = 12.58
Total Spirit Change: 12.58-10.9 = 1.68 spir/sec gained

Because you do not use a spirit Gen and you do use BoH:Blazing Wrath which costs 25spir and you usually cast every ~30s. (Ideally you would cast it every 45 but that is hard to maintain)

25/30 = 0.833 spir/sec cost
1.68-0.833 = 0.85 spir/sec gain

0.85 spir/sec is not enough to sustain SSS:FO because in the 30s that SSS:FO is on CD, you will not gain back 50 spirit.

Furthermore, every time you stop TRing even for a split second (missclick, knockback, pathing mouse over text boxes ... ect) you lose 15 spirit. This only has to happen once every 18 seconds to put you in the negative for spir/sec.

This is part of why I advocate the use of a spirit gen. It saves you the 0.85 spir/sec cost of Blazing Wrath, still gives you a 18% damage buff for a large portion of your run, and it GIVES you spirit so that at the end of every "use DR:Foresight" session, you have full spirit and you have "made up" for all the slight mistakes you inevitably make during your run.

I would suggest trying DR:Foresight over BoH:Blazing Wrath. I can't imagine the 17% DPS is even going to be noticeable as I was happily getting >90m xp/hr with ~40k less dps than you. :P

2. Why does using a TR crit SoJ not seem to increase xp/hr?
The biggest reason I can think of, is that you don't actually calc your xp/hr and instead you are going based on "feel."

If this is the case, the most logical explanation is that you "feel" worse using Cyclone because it does a lot of its work off-screen and therefore it's very hard for your brain to account for its usefulness correctly.

As for Firestorm, I have a hard time believing that you would even "feel" worse using it over Inner Storm as it is, roughly speaking, a 90%+ DPS increase compared to normal SW.

Firestorm is usually the go-to "this feel GREAT" skill for TRing so I can't help you there.

I would recommend what I always recommend:
If you want to be as efficient as possible, calc your xp/hr over a long play sessions and try to figure out which setup is actually giving you more.

If you just want to enjoy your play-sessions and efficiency isn't as important, then you are 100% right to stick with Inner Storm + Submission and just keep stacking w/e is making you happy! :D

Hope at least some of this helps!
Reply Quote
Sup Druin,

The road to 100 seems far far away..

/freebump


Hang in there bud, you are sooooo close!

Just a couple more play sessions and you will hit that magic number and all your troubles will go away! :D

01/10/2013 01:15 AMPosted by LongIsland
A question, for TR gear option A, does the bonus from SoJ count in the >40% CHC? I am gonna have 35% CHC from gear and enchantress and then i have SoJ which gives my TR 6% critical, together making 41%, so is that enough to pull off option A?


You just need your TR crit to be above 42%. This means that if you have 39% CHC and a 4% TR crit SoJ, your TR has a 43% chance to crit and you are good to go.

The 42% CHC thing is just a loose guide-line. It is there so that people have some sort of benchmark to gauge where they currently stand in the spectrum of TRing.

I am not a game-dev and I do not have the information that would be required to actually mathematically tell you the exact % CHC that is required to make Cyclone more efficient than other options.

Just try and keep that in mind and then try stuff out. If it feels terrible or if you are actually calculating your xp/hr and it seems to go down, then do something else.

I am 100% sure there are people out there using 35% CHC and Cyclone who are perfectly happy and there are other people who have >50% CHC and HATE Cyclone ... all up to you! :D

happy monk, great guide!
have gone from cookie cutter doing mp4 ~40m / hr to TR mp0 ~60m / hr

just to share on experience trying out TR without breaking the bank
(and since the current market's inflated due to the hottest build now ;)
thus more like the mid-tier TR gearing build but am not complaining with 1m exp/min

SoJ w TR/SW bonus over budget
got SoJ w holy dmg bonus, sp regen & WotHF dmg bonus
imho kills elites as fast as 7SS with the Favor (belt) holy dmg boost together with WotHF:FoF

Xen ammy w crit over budget
got ammy w sp regen but no crit
but unfortunately this occasionally leaves white trash with some hp & leaking exp
swapped out to standard CHC & CD ammy
only stopping to hit elites & tanky mobs (couple of hits suffice to kill & gains enough SP too :)

build: http://d3up.com/b/249999
haven't stacked RA though & skorn with only LoH (no LS!)
but surprisingly doable with serenity as my RD/stay alive

comments on gearing & suggestions most welcome!


Hello Sain7,

First off, thanks for the support! I am really glad you liked my guide!

Second, we need to talk about +holy damage and how it works.

The stat on Inna's Belt, SoJ, Zuni's boots and many other items is generally called "bonus elemental damage" and the stat that you are confusing it with found on Maximus, Magefist, Frostburns and many other items is generally called "elemental skill damage."

Here is how they are worded (note they are very different)
Stat 1 (Inna's belt stat): "Adds x% to <elemental> damage"
Stat 2 (Maximus stat): "<Elemental> skills deal xx% more damage"

These two stats work VERY differently.

Stat 1 (the one you are talking about) increases your paperdoll DPS by x% and does that extra damage AS <element>.
This means that Inna's belt simply gives you 7-8% more damage and that damage is done AS holy damage. It does not matter if you are hitting with FoT (lighting) FoF (holy) or Firestorm (fire) every single skill you use will do 7-8% more damage than it did without the bonus.
Note: this effect ONLY increases "black" damage which is a different discussion and one I will happily have in game, but not here because it takes forever to explain! :D

Stat 2 (the one you are confusing Stat 1 with) actually increases the damage of SKILLS that use that specific element.

For example, http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/won-khim-lau has both types of stats on it.
It increases all your damage by 5-6% and then ALSO increases the damage that lighting-based skills do by 15-25%.

This would make Fist of Thunder hit 15-25% harder but would do absolutely NOTHING for WotHF: Blazing Fists or Fists of Fury because they do physical and holy damage.

Hopefully this makes sense! Feel free to contact me directly if you have any other questions!

Good guide and enjoyed the most recent video as well, but will add that using a SOJ without SW/TR is viable (and a lot cheaper). An option regarding sustain is getting life after kill on ring/amu and go for a 500+ dex skorn, that might actually boost your DPS more for your money. It would be great with a bit more discussion about SW- Inner storm + Submission vs. Circular breathing + Firestorm for the budget build.

Currently trying to collect a gearset for collecting keys and farming a hellfire ring.


You have brought up three pretty good points that I would like to address:

1. Non SW/TR SoJ's (also mentioned by another poster)
I honestly haven't looked into this much. I think that, because TR gives Crit (a stat you can't otherwise make up for), replacing a TR crit SoJ with a non-TR crit SoJ is probably non-viable.

Without the TR crit, the Cyclone build just stops working pretty solidly.

However, SW damage is just that ... damage. If you can make up for it elsewhere, I am 100% sure that a non SW damage SoJ is perfectly Viable.

It is just important to keep in mind just how much damage that stat is adding (it can be a surprising amount).

2. LoK on other gear + dps/dex Skorn
Ideas like this make me just facepalm and wonder how this never occurred to me!

Of course this is a great idea, Ammy is a REALLY great place to snag a 2000+ LoK stat and then you can grab a low-cost super high DPS Skorn without incurring the LoK tax!

I will add this suggestion to the guide at some point and credit you.

3. Inner Storm + Sub vs. Firestorm + Circ
This point was actually brought up to me two days ago in game by a very smart monk who mathed the !@#$ out me and convinced me to give Firestorm more credit that I was previously doing.

Here is how it breaks down:
Mathematically speaking, given random positions and movement of monsters and your hero, and given constant movement, Inner-Sub is 18% more damage-area than Fire-Circ.

However, because the movement of your hero is NOT random, you can reduce the "waste" that random movement creates significantly and Fire-Circ benefits from this "player control" much more heavily than Inner-Sub.

Fire-Circ ALSO benefits more heavily from SW buffs such as SW-damage SoJ's and Faith in the Light bonus. (two skills that effect SW's damage but not Submission's)

Because of these factors, there is a strong (though currently unsubstantiated) argument to be made for Fire-Circ being more xp/hr than Inner-Sub.

I never made this connection because, when done correctly, Firestorm is simple Worse than Cyclone so I never considered it as a candidate.

I will add this to the guide pending further testing and credit both of you!
Edited by Druin#1518 on 1/10/2013 12:27 PM PST
Reply Quote
Druin - thanks for the help the other night w/ the hellfire rings! Could you do a quick gear check for me? I've got my tempest rush gear on now and am wondering what I should upgrade next. I took your advice and switched from a 1.7 spirit regen inna's radiance to a 1.9. What next Druin, the happy monk?
Reply Quote
Druin> Thx for your nice reply. Guess the non TR/SW SOJ would work best with the Inner-Sub build as the SW boost isn't there.

Millhouse> Your nat set isn't that special, I'd drop that in favor of a SOJ and Zuni boots that way you decrease your spirit use, increase your life and likely also boost your actual damage output. You could also use a better hellfire (ias sucks in this build) and drop cyclone for now.
Reply Quote
Hello Druin,

Can you give me some advice on my monk?

I take some time to kill in mp0 and i die easly... kind of disapointed its the first time im trying a monk :\
Reply Quote
Hi Druin.

First of all, great guide and thanks for taking the time to help the monk community.

I have two questions for you:

1) I am currently using variant B of your middle-tier guide and I am doing ok. I am thinking to give a try to variant A, but I was wondering if there is a substantial difference in terms of exp/h between variant A and variant B. Do you have any info to share about this?

2) Based on the preview of patch 1.0.7, it seems to me that there maybe a significant incentive to make a TR build that is viable for MP1. In fact, 25% exp bonus seems pretty sweet, but 50% more life for monsters may require a significant increase in DPS to continue one-shotting white mobs. This may be feasible only for super-geared monks. Any thought on this?

Thank you very much in advance for your response!
Reply Quote
Hey All,

I posted this thread about a month ago, but I got very little replies. I was hoping that I could get some more definite answers here from the professional monks. Below is a copy of my original questions. Though my items have changed since then, I still have the same questions and these "bugs" continue to persist.

I have been playing my TR build Monk from a few weeks now and I have noticed some "bugs" that I am unsure if I am imagining, or if they actually exist.

1) When casting sweeping wind. I typically just hold down TR and run until I have 3 stacks of SW. If I continue to hold TR I notice a significant decrease in cyclones proc'ed. However if I stop TR for just a second and restart after 3 SW stacks I generate significantly more cyclones.

I have tested this many times, however never with any real scientific method, as pack density varies so much. It's not really a "feeling" thing, as I can visually see that 2X+ cyclones are being spawned if I let up for a second and recast TR rather than just holding the initial cast through a whole level.

Has anyone else noticed this behavior, or is it really just a coincidence. I have run 100's of runs and it seems like such a consistent thing I just don't know.

2) When on 3 full stacks of Cyclone SW I have noticed with a fleeting shrine that my movement speed is so fast that I actually can "drag" the cyclone animation through many enemies at one time.

What this does is instantly 1 shot a large aoe pack around me. I am unsure if the Cyclone cast animation is just hiding the initial pulse of the cyclone, or if you also get a large aoe nuke during the cast animation.

Regardless, I have found that a fleeting shrine is by FAR my favorite shrine, as it allows me to 1 shot all enemies, even elites when the cyclones are cast. Please note that this does not happen without a fleeting shrine, as the animation typically finishes before I can plow through more than 1-2 enemies. And even still I have to 2-5 shot elites without the shrine.

Whatever the case, it seems that when casting a cyclone with a fleeting shrine active I get an uber damage buff that allows me to kill even faster.

Again has anyone noticed this behavior, or am I alone?

3) When using TR with my gear I generate around 1 spirit ever 3-4 seconds. This is consistent and tested over and over. However when I get a fleeting shrine I have noticed that I degenerate 1 spirit every 3-4 seconds. I am well aware that TR spirit usage depends on your attack rate, but I have never seen run speed effect it in the slightest (on gear or skills). However with the fleeting shrine (and only with the shrine) I get a slight increase in channeling cost for TR.

I am wondering if this is something that goes unnoticed due to most people have much more or much less generation that the channeling cost. Because I am right on the line it is definitely noticed and not imagined. I am also sure it is not due to increased SW casts or other skills being used, as I have tested by just running around in a circle in town with the shrine and w/o the shrine.

All of these "bugs" are very repeatable and I notice (imagine?) them in every game. Does any one else see the same behavior, or am I alone?

Thanks in advance for your comments and time,

Coco
Reply Quote
So I have a little bit of money to spend (not much, 50m) what is going to be the most significant upgrade to a: my dps and b my survivability?

I seem to get one shot by a couple things (little poison exploding bastards) so my AR is too low.. Where do I go from here?
Reply Quote
I'm having a bunch of fun so far with my monk <---- (see profile) What do you think the next steps are? Trying to get that Xeph ammy with Crit is expensive so I can drop exhaulted, but will it push me below the threshold for damage? Where should I try and upgrade from here? I got pretty lucky on some of the items I found for cheap, but last remaining ones to get to the 6.33 on gear is tough. 6.33 sp/sec includes the full set bonus too? so realistically only 6 is needed from helm+soj+xeph?

Might try for the gloves next, although I really like the stacked phy resist+ all resist since most of the damage that kills you in this game seems to be physical (reflect, etc all comes back as physical).

Ugh, and now I see that a blue has confirmed that they're "fixing" snapshot monks in 1.07. Welp I guess it was fun while it lasted. Is this build still viable without the extra damage from blinding flash?

http://i.imgur.com/eniOB.png
Reply Quote
Hi, i have a couple of questions, i am running option A

1) i would like to know how good for TR is my SoJ. Stats: 6% Poison dmg, spirit rege 1.97, dmg against elites 20% and CHC of TR 6%. I bought it for 4M

2) what is the optimal AS - right now i have spirit rege 12.75 (with templar 13.88). Since my CHC is only 35.5% (+6 TR crit from SoJ) and would rather have scoundrel as follower

3) with my low AS deadly reach seems quite uneffective, since getting the third strike is almost always wasted (demon ususally dead) and FoT is much faster spirit rege, so i am just getting the wrong impression or is the FoT better for low AS? And i am not using DR for snapshot

Thx for answers
Reply Quote
Druin,

y u no bump?? :p

/freebumpforya
Reply Quote
Druin,
Thanks for the feedback & clarification :)

As most of the spirit regen stuff have gone up in price, after quite a bit of test running, have found the cheapest way to get to the TR game is using build variant C with a twist. Instead of getting Inna's Radiance (20m up for an average one), running with just a cheap SoJ (6% & dmg on elite) for 10m or less. Infinite TR with just one piece & without AS bonus (1.09 attacks per s). Using 300 dex, high CD Skorn with LoK (LoH 500+ works fine too).

Build wise, already sufficient SP regen thus running DR:Foresight (SW dmg bonus snapshot) & follower Scoundrel (crit +3%). Running with SW:Cyclone & MoH:Circular Breathing. No double back required & Cyclone/Scoundrel finishing things off. 2nd best was SW:Firestorm + MoH:Circular Breathing.

Other play tips: When using SW:Cyclone to imagine that you're dragging a tail of doom & just flow through mobs. Just don't stop when running through maniacs & you'll be mostly fine. Frenzy shrine will probably cause you to run out of spirit ;)

Route wise running Seabiscuit route but including Druins' 'S' route from Rakkis Crossing into Fields of Slaughter. Exp 60-70m/hr.
Edited by Sain7#6533 on 1/13/2013 11:45 PM PST
Reply Quote
Hi Druin,

so my TR monk is doing quite well. im leveling pretty quick now (10 levels over the weekend!!!) and im looking to see if there are any easy upgrades now. im looking for more dmg so i can hit mp4ish. im rolling mp2 well right now and only die when i dont pay attention, get walled on a cooldown/RD or fallen maniacs. i have about 583 AR with OWE and 170~ dmg fully buffed.

currently with templar, i am in a + Spirit regen area (but barely). i checked for better Xeph ammys and they are hella expensive. the only other options are rolling a better hellfire (which im hesitatant about since it had AVG, +AR, CD and hellfire luck is HORRIBLE for me), or get better versions of my gear :\. each one is like 50+m each.

what do you think would be the most bang for my buck?

thanks!
Edited by Griever#1346 on 1/14/2013 6:06 AM PST
Reply Quote
Ahhhh, what a nice weekend! Now, back to my day job ... this thread! ;)

01/10/2013 08:48 PMPosted by Millhouse9
Druin - thanks for the help the other night w/ the hellfire rings! Could you do a quick gear check for me? I've got my tempest rush gear on now and am wondering what I should upgrade next. I took your advice and switched from a 1.7 spirit regen inna's radiance to a 1.9. What next Druin, the happy monk?


Hey Mill, it was my pleasure to help you and Joy out! :D

I know we talked in game so I am not sure if you are looking for any more advice/ect.

That being said, I have very little. I feel like your gear-set looks fantastic, you have plenty of DPS, HP and mitigation and the 10k globes stat on your Inna's chest is a fantastic addition.

The only thing I think you should look out for would be pickup radius. You could either get it on Strongarm (cheap) or Inna's Belt (more gold but your belt is your worst Inna's item).

Other than that, you are looking good to go my friend. Let me know if you have specific questions! :D

Hello Druin,

Can you give me some advice on my monk?

I take some time to kill in mp0 and i die easly... kind of disapointed its the first time im trying a monk :\


Hello rCzor,

To be honest, your monk looks pretty good. You have all of the requirements and a pretty great 14 pickup radius.

Your All resists are a little low which probably has to do with why you die but you have plenty of HP and DPS.

I am glad to see that even though you have a TR crit SoJ you are going with Inner-Sub instead of Cyclone-Circ because you do not have enough crit chance to make Cyclone-Circ work all that well.

If you are having trouble killing things I would guess that you need to make some edits to your pathing and play-style more than your gear because you have quite a bit more dps than I do in my Spec Variant B video and I kill things quite well.

If you need any specific help I would be happy to assist you in game so just let me know!

Hi Druin.

First of all, great guide and thanks for taking the time to help the monk community.

I have two questions for you:

1) I am currently using variant B of your middle-tier guide and I am doing ok. I am thinking to give a try to variant A, but I was wondering if there is a substantial difference in terms of exp/h between variant A and variant B. Do you have any info to share about this?

2) Based on the preview of patch 1.0.7, it seems to me that there maybe a significant incentive to make a TR build that is viable for MP1. In fact, 25% exp bonus seems pretty sweet, but 50% more life for monsters may require a significant increase in DPS to continue one-shotting white mobs. This may be feasible only for super-geared monks. Any thought on this?

Thank you very much in advance for your response!


Hey Fiberbeam,

Thanks a lot for the support and I am glad that you liked the guide! :D

1.
Spec A has quite a bit higher potential xp/hr than Spec B. The reason for this is that Spec A uses Cyclone which has virtually no "cap" on how much xp/hr it can give you. The more Crit and DPS you pump into that skill, the more xp/hr you get via it cleaning house.

That is not the case with Spec B though. As you increase your DPS, you slowly approach a point at which you kill everything Inner Storm Touches and then your xp/hr gains from gear start to fall off because you can't MORE than one-shot mobs. The range on Sub is the only thing that really increases your xp/hr at that point and even that is pretty small compared to the absolutely MONSTER range on Cyclone.

That being said, the only difference is their ability to scale. At the 25m gear mark Spec B out-performs spec A because you can get higher DPS with lower crit by not paying for "maxed stat" gear which ALWAYS costs more than balanced gear.

If you are looking to progress forward with your TR monk, I would highly recommend switching to Spec A and then progressing forward until eventually you can make the jump to the End-game spec.

2.
Because of the way that xp% bonus has diminishing returns of effect, I would be VERY skeptical as to the effectiveness of Monster Power > 0.

Example: Let's say, with no bonus at all, a given MP0 run gives 4m xp.
With your "normal" bonuses you will get 31% from ruby in helm, 35% from hellfire and 7% from hellfire on merc. Then you will also get between 0% and 75% from NV which I Will average to 50% assuming you have 75% for more of the run than you have 0%.
Total Bonus% xp: 31+35+7+50 = 123%.

This means that you get an additional 1.23 * 4m = 4.92m xp.

Total xp from the run: 4 + 4.92 = 8.92m

Now let's say you did that exact same run on MP1.
You still get a base of 4m xp from the monsters. (Monster Power does NOT increase base xp)
You now have an additional 25% bonus xp for a total of 123% + 25% = 148%

This means you get an additional 1.48 * 4m = 5.92m xp.

Total xp from the run: 4 + 5.92 = 9.92m xp.

How much more xp is that than on MP0? 9.92/8.92 = 1.112 or 11.2% more xp.

Then you have to ask yourself, was the run 11.2% longer because the monsters have 50% more HP? If yes, it was absolutely not worth it. If no, it was worth it.

I can probably run MP1 and see nearly a net-zero change in my xp/hr but I also have VERY good TR gear. Most TR monks are BARELY 1 shotting MP0 trash and would be doubling back constantly in MP1 for a >11.2% increase in run time.

Therefore: I seriously doubt MP1 will be worthwhile for TRing for xp.

@Cocopup
1.
I have never experienced this but I believe it should be fairly easy to test so I will try and do so and then get back to you with my results.

It has been recently brought to light and confirmed that various parts of TR do "snapshot" just like SW. Specifically the spirit cost has been shown to take a snapshot of your Attack Speed.

This "snapshotting" mechanism would be the only thing I could imagine having that sort of effect but I don't see why it would effect the Proc C of TR based on SW stacks.

2.
I have confirmed that the "proc" of SW at 3 stacks does NOT do additional damage. Therefore I can only assume you are experiencing the wonderful magic of SW:Cyclone. The additional instant hit when Cyclone procs adds a large amount of damage at the time of proc. I would assume this is what you are experiencing.

There really shouldn't be any positive correlation between move speed and kill speed. Because your skills all do damage over time either continuously or over non-variable intervals, moving more quickly should only DECREASE your effective kill speed while you move.

I would guess this is quite simply a perception-bias.

3.
This I most certainly have experienced. There are some seriously messed up things regarding the cost of TR.

There has been some pretty strong evidence to suggest that even the pattern with which you move effects the drain of spirit from TR. If you run in a strait line, you will get a consistent 10spir/sec per 1.0APS drain, however, if you run in a zig-zag pattern, you will see a higher drain than 10spir/sec per 1.0APS.

I have also noticed this specifically with Fleeting Shrine.

I am going to guess it has to do with the way TR is calculated as being "on" and that it has nothing to do with TR actually scaling with Move Speed in any way.

I know many people have reported de-syncing issues with maxed move speed + fleet footed + fleeting shrine + TR and I would guess that game just has a harder time doing its calculations correctly when you are flying! :D

I'm having a bunch of fun so far with my monk <---- (see profile) What do you think the next steps are? Trying to get that Xeph ammy with Crit is expensive so I can drop exhaulted, but will it push me below the threshold for damage? Where should I try and upgrade from here? I got pretty lucky on some of the items I found for cheap, but last remaining ones to get to the 6.33 on gear is tough. 6.33 sp/sec includes the full set bonus too? so realistically only 6 is needed from helm+soj+xeph?

Might try for the gloves next, although I really like the stacked phy resist+ all resist since most of the damage that kills you in this game seems to be physical (reflect, etc all comes back as physical).

Ugh, and now I see that a blue has confirmed that they're "fixing" snapshot monks in 1.07. Welp I guess it was fun while it lasted. Is this build still viable without the extra damage from blinding flash?

http://i.imgur.com/eniOB.png


Hey KingEight,

You have nearly perfect gear so I sincerely doubt that you are actually having trouble. With a gem in your wep and dex instead of vit gems in your pants you would have PLENTY of DPS to plow through everything.

Grats on that A M A Z I N G xeph ammy. We are all jealous! :D

Fixing snapshot will barely effect TR so I really wouldn't worry about it.

Math:
I will use Firestorm as an example here because it is a lot easier to do the math for. Assume Cyclone is a slightly larger % of your total damage and is therefore more highly effected by this nerf.
Current SW damage: 45%(SW).
to 45% * 1.3 = 58.5% DPS.
Submission does 12% DPS.
TR does 85% DPS but in a MUCH smaller area.

Let's pick some estimated numbers here (the real math is nearly impossible to do because of player choice).
Let's say if TR does 1x of it's DPS, SW does 4x of it's DPS because it has such a bigger radius and will therefore hit mobs that TR would miss.
Sub will do something like 6x of it's DPS because it's radius is HUGE.

Scalers:
SW: 4
Sub: 6
TR: 1

So the Scaled damage%'s are:
0.585 * 4 = 2.34 SW DPS
0.12 * 6 = 0.72 Sub DPS
0.85 * 1 = 0.85 TR DPS
Total DPS: 3.91.
This means that, with Faith, you do 3.91x your paperdoll DPS to mobs around you at all times while channeling TR.

Now let's replace Faith with Blazing Wrath.
SW: 0.45 * 1.15 = 0.5175 or 51.75%. This is much lower than the 58.5% from Faith however, your other skills get DPS buffs from Blazing wrath that they didn't get from Faith.
New Sub damage: 0.12 * 1.15 = 0.138 or 13.8%
New TR damage: 0.9775 or 97.75%

New Scaled damage%'s:
0.5175 * 4 = 2.07
0.138 * 6 = 0.828
0.9775 * 1 = 0.9775
Total: 3.88

As you can see, 3.88 IS lower than 3.91 but not by much.
The big things you are giving up is the decreased kill-speed on Elites where you currently get the benefit of Faith's 30% buff almost permanently.

As I said, Cyclone has a higher scalar than Firestorm and my scalars might be off a bit as I guessed to make them but the point remains. The difference between Faith and Blazing Wrath will be minimal.

Note: I have personally tested my own gear-setup with ZERO snapshotting and I can TR perfectly fine.

Cheers!

Hi, i have a couple of questions, i am running option A

1) i would like to know how good for TR is my SoJ. Stats: 6% Poison dmg, spirit rege 1.97, dmg against elites 20% and CHC of TR 6%. I bought it for 4M

2) what is the optimal AS - right now i have spirit rege 12.75 (with templar 13.88). Since my CHC is only 35.5% (+6 TR crit from SoJ) and would rather have scoundrel as follower

3) with my low AS deadly reach seems quite uneffective, since getting the third strike is almost always wasted (demon ususally dead) and FoT is much faster spirit rege, so i am just getting the wrong impression or is the FoT better for low AS? And i am not using DR for snapshot

Thx for answers


Hello Long Island,

1.
That is a very good TR SoJ. Congrats!

2.
The optimal Attack Speed for TR (currently) is 1.08-1.09. This means the ONLY IAS gear you have is Inna's Pants.

Looking at your profile I see you have a 8% IAS ammy and 9% IAS pants. If you got an ammy with CHC and CHD instead of CHC and IAS, you would have 0.8 less spir/sec COST on TR and then you would be able to channel forever AND gain enough spirit to use SSS:FO while also using a Scoundrel.
This would increase your dps, Cyclone spawn rate and overall xp/hr.

3.
Ideally, you should only rarely be using DR:Foresight to kill elites. SSS:FO should kill 1 elite pack every 30s so you should have the least number of elites/run possible that need to actually be hit.

During the time you are NOT killing elites with auto-attacks, Foresight is helping you out by killing trash mobs faster through it's buff (Assuming you snapshot it or combo something every 30seconds).

You are more than welcome to use FoT:TC though, if you do, I would recommend using BoH:Blazing Wrath instead of SSS:FO because FoT:TC will be your primary way to kill elites and you will be losing the 18% damage buff from Foresight to help you with trash mobs.

Druin,

y u no bump?? :p

/freebumpforya


I rarely post on this thread over the weekends. They are my chance to get hammered and spend time with the wife (sometimes both!) so I reserve long-winded thread-responding for time at the office while waiting for customers to call me! :D

Thanks for the bump ;)

@Sain7

I am really glad to hear you got it all working!

Those are some good tips and totally agree about the way to play with Cyclone. You have to really get in the "flow" of it and be at peace knowing your little buddies are doing their job or else you will spend tons of time killing things they would have happily killed without you! :D

I have recently been made aware of the Firestorm-Circ build and I will be working on it in the future to add it to the guide as a Spec Variant B 2.0 setup!

Hi Druin,

so my TR monk is doing quite well. im leveling pretty quick now (10 levels over the weekend!!!) and im looking to see if there are any easy upgrades now. im looking for more dmg so i can hit mp4ish. im rolling mp2 well right now and only die when i dont pay attention, get walled on a cooldown/RD or fallen maniacs. i have about 583 AR with OWE and 170~ dmg fully buffed.

currently with templar, i am in a + Spirit regen area (but barely). i checked for better Xeph ammys and they are hella expensive. the only other options are rolling a better hellfire (which im hesitatant about since it had AVG, +AR, CD and hellfire luck is HORRIBLE for me), or get better versions of my gear :\. each one is like 50+m each.

what do you think would be the most bang for my buck?

thanks!


Hey there Griever,

Glad you are having a good time with the build!

Your gear looks pretty darn good so I am going to say that any upgrade is going to be expensive now.

By the looks of it you have two main upgrade paths:
1. Focus on low-MP xp/hr farming
To do this, you are going to want to get a CC% Nat's ring. They are extremely expensive but it's an "easy" way to get a "free" 4-5% CC.
You can also/instead farm up a CC Hellfire but, as you said, RNG can really suck! :D

2. Focus on that higher-MP goal
To do this you are REALLY going to want a Lifesteal Skorn.
Lifesteal might not be 100% required on MP0 but it is SUCH a big deal as soon as things stop dying instantly.
Saving up 100m or 200m and blowing it on a pretty good (1350 DPS 160%+CHD 5%+LS) Skorn would make ALL the difference in both dps and survivability.

Good luck buddy!
Edited by Druin#1518 on 1/14/2013 12:14 PM PST
Reply Quote
Also, finally got around to editing the tags on my next movie!

Spec Variant C video:
http://youtu.be/bjOX2mfPhk0
In this video I cover Spec Variant C which means I TR without a SoJ or a Xeph ammy. I also go into a little bit of detail about using Physical Resist stacking in conjunction with Seize the Initiative to make Reflects damage elites and Fallen Maniacs more manageable!
Reply Quote
Keeping this on the front page.
Reply Quote
Really cool guide. I may have to try this build!
Reply Quote
01/14/2013 01:18 PMPosted by JayUltimatum
Keeping this on the front page.


i hear you can request stickies and every 6-8 years the mods sticky the one thread with the most requests
Reply Quote
Hi Druin,
Thanks for the response!
Now I better understand the mechanics of the two builds. In fact, I noticed that as soon as I reached 120-125k DPS, my efficiency was not improving any more with higher DPS. Based on your explanation, this makes completely sense. I will move to spec variant A as soon as I get a CC hellfire ring (hopefully soon!).
I tried running TR on MP1 and, as I expected, I lost a lot of exp/h (and died twice, while in MP0 I die by mistake every 10 runs or so). Maybe, it could be efficient for a DPS higher than 180-190k, but definitely not at my level...
What is your opinion regarding the recently datamined info on 1.07? We may lose the snapshot (not talking about the gear swapsnapshot, but the one from DR and FitL), but we also get pretty nice buffs to SW and TR.
Thanks again!
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]