Scratch that. 150k dps unbuffed :D Got some awesome Zunimasa's Trail and some Awesome Gloves (got rid of old IK boots + gloves combo). Got 20k flat dps and lost just 200 armor and 15 AR. Hope profile will update asap.
Also, switched to SW: Inner Storm and MoC: Submission. Damn. Awesome.
150k DPS is quite a lot for your average TR monk! :D
You are really well set-up to take advantage of the 1.0.7 BoA Ammys which is cool. Dropping Xeph is going to hurt me :(
Also, I personally like Inner-Sub more than Fire-Circ even though they should be roughly equal.
I am currently running a bells build (in prep for 1.0.7) on MP1 VotA for loot farming and I have to use 1 of the +3 spir/sec skills and I keep bouncing between the two ... and it just seems like Inner-Sub wins every time.
Fantastic guide and what's even more impressive is the followup you've done with everyone. The guide has been a wonderful help to me and I was looking to the collective wisdom of the forums for helps on next steps.
I've been smashing through MP0 runs with zero problems or downtime, but I'm wondering if there will be an advantage to running a different MP with the changes coming to xp in 1.0.7. I've got about 80M I could spend on upgrades if so.
Any feedback you (or any other experienced monks) have is appreciated.
Thanks a lot for the support! :D
As of this time, I do not know whether or not it will be worth it to go into higher MP's due to the increase in xp bonus. I think I am going to write up a "how 1.0.7 effects TR monks" thread and then link it in the current events section of this guide.
Ideally I would like to answer the three most popular questions I get regarding 1.0.7 which are:
Is TR still viable? (yes)
Does the snapshot nerf kill TR damage? (no)
Will higher MP levels be better for xp/hr? (I need to do the math)
Until then, sit tight! :D
Hi guys, in your opinion can i get full tempest rush set work with 20m gold?
I believe you CAN build a full TR suit for 20m. However, it would require several weeks of intermittent shopping, tracking prices and buying things on low-ball bids or 1d12h buyouts.
If you would prefer to simply buyout everything all at once, you will most likely spend between 35 and 50 million.
Thanks for the awesome help, Druin. I spent 30m on a Skorn, 3m on an amulet, and 15m on the Zunimassa's trail. Got my damage from 65k to 118k. Huge difference. As I'm currently running, I've got excess spirit. With Templar bonus and Inner Storm, it clocks in at just over 15/s. Means I can probably look at dropping either Exalted Soul, Chant of Resonance, or possibly, as a stretch, Inner Storm? You were spot on about being able to be super efficient without the use of a Xeph. Thanks for saving me a ton of gold, man!
If I do drop a passive, which should I drop? Should I pick up fleet footed again now my DPS is rather high, or should I go for STI/OWE? I've died once or twice since swapping gear, both times to Reflects Damage packs when SSS is on cooldown. Since It's getting a nerf in 1.0.7 I dare say there's no point gearing around more survivability?
My last question, not sure if it's been covered a few pages back, I dare say it has but I couldn't see the answer with a quick glance. With 1.0.7's changes to snapshotting of SW, I'm willing to bet that Deadly Reach:Foresight will no longer be the most efficient primary attack. Will we be making the shift back to Thunderclap, possibly even Quickening?
Cheers once again, Druin. The community needs more awesome people like you! :)
Hi again Bootman!
First off, I am really glad that everything worked out so well for you! :D
As for your questions:
ES is the worst of all the "utility" passives for TR monks because there is no benefit to having a larger pool of spirit. The only important stat, unless you are net-negative in spirit gain, is spir GAIN vs spir LOSS per second while TR'ing.
Note: This will change if you decide to make the move to a bells-based TR build post 1.0.7 ... but that is a ways off and I haven't even started to finalize that build yet! :D
If you don't die often, Fleet might actually be a good choice. Just remember, added move speed is a double-edged sword, you pass through the level more quickly, but you do less damage to monsters, on average, because they spend less time in your SW, TR and Sub.
Finding the right passives will be a balancing act for now because it will mostly depend on your gameplay. (If you want to zzzzzzzzzzzzzz your way through, STI will mean you don't have to pay attention, if you want to be on your toes 24/7 FF is probably higher xp/hr as long as you pick your movement paths wisely)
I do not know if the reflects change will have much of an impact on TR monks. As far as I can tell, on the PTR, reflects packs start the encounter with the reflects buff on. This means the the potential to instantly impale yourself still exists ... only testing and experience will tell if the change means TR monks can afford to stack less mitigation.
I do not enjoy doing extensive PTR testing because it always feels like a waste of my time (no permanent gains) so I will be holding off on answering a lot of these 1.0.7 questions until 1.0.7 goes live! :D
It is possible that DR:Foresight will not remain in the build. The time lost to re-casting it may outweigh the increased damage. Furthermore, you are giving up a skill slot that can either be a MUCH better spirit gen (WotHF:FoF being the best for non-Cyclone monks) or another buff/spirit spender/ally ... ect.
Just a quick calc on how much DR:Foresight would effect your xp/hr:
On average, doing Kaho's route, each run took me 6:00 minutes with my "end-game" gear.
This means you would have to re-buff DR:foresight 12 times per run. At 1.08 APS,
DR:Foresight takes 2.07 seconds to cycle through all 3 of its attacks. 12*2.07 = 24.9 seconds just re-buffing Foresight.
Assuming my 6 minute run is now ~6:20 I go from 60/6 = 10 runs per hour to 60/6.333 = 9.5 runs per hour.
Assuming you were getting 80m xp/hr (8m xp/run) you are now only getting 76m xp/hr.
This isn't a HUGE loss ... but it's a loss and that means there is a strong opportunity cost associated with Foresight that wasn't there before.
We will have to see! :D
Hi again Druin
Thx for the reply. I have shopped some millions (Probably closer to 40 than 25) to hit spec A but with submission, as I run both Xephi and SoJ. Im considering dumping OWE as i use immortals hands and boots: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Malorn-2738/hero/580981
My damage feels kinda low (75000) but my skorn kinda sucks. Will this work? I still need a decent hellfire as well...
Secondly: Im neither gaining, nor spending spirit while rushing, so I will have trouble with SSS. Should I go MoH:Circle or SW:Inner instead of MoC:Submission? I think ill need submissions damage.
Hello again Malorn!
I think that 75k DPS is too low to TR effectively. Thankfully, getting to a bit higher DPS shouldn't be a problem for you.
Drop that xeph ammy (1 spir/sec is too low anyways) sell it for a redic price, buy a rare ammy with CHC CHD dex and maybe a sustain or mitigation stat.
Farm exactly 1 more hellfire ring and make it roll dex.
DPS problem solved!
I am skeptical as to your "drop OWE" plan. I do not see a whole lot of AR on your gear and your life will definitely drop when you ditch the hellfire you are wearing in favor of a Dex version.
Your profile shows you using Inner Storm and I agree with this decision.
Spirit calcs (with sub, without xeph):
Gain: 1.97 (hat) 0.33 (set) 1.67 (ring) 2 (CoR) 3 (Inner) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 13.19
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8
Net Change: 13.19 - 10.8 = +2.39
This is more than enough spir/sec to use SSS:FO on cooldown while infinitely TRing AND it doesn't use Xeph so you can up your DPS with ease! Winning!
SW:Cyclone currently (and in 1.0.7 so far) snapshots the direction you are facing when you cast it. This means that if you are facing due North-East when you cast SW:Cyclone for the first time, it will spawn Cyclones in the North-East direction forever until you allow SW to drop off your character and then re-cast it.
I recommend using this to make Cyclones always spawn BEHIND your character and thus make them more prone to clean up mobs you leave behind.
This is why my entire run is done moving from the NE quarter of the map to the SW quarter and I always stand facing NE when I cast SW:Cyclone.
very elaborate and good guide here. Interesting in-depth read for a casual like me. Keep up the good work.
Glad you liked the guide! :D
As I see it, you have one major question and then several minor questions. I will address the major question first:
"What can I do to increase my xp/hr and/or loot/hr?"
The very first thing we need to talk about here is the correlation between xp/hr and loot/hr. Specifically, that they are negatively correlated. This means that as you make changes and gear purchases to increase one, the other will naturally suffer.
This isn't to say that you must accept terrible loot/hr in order to get good xp/hr, or vice versa. However, many of the skills and gear choices that will maximize one will NOT maximize the other.
This means that you are going to want to focus on one and not the other.
From the look of things, it seems like you are currently trying really hard to max both and that is causing some frustration. With your gear and spec, you should be WAY higher than 60m xp/hr which means you are too afraid of missing items and too eager to pick up low EV items to gain the full benefit that Cyclone has to offer.
Cyclone is a truly wonderful skill but it comes with some significant drawbacks. The biggest of these drawbacks is that it will consistently kill things outside of your view and those things will sometimes drop loot. If this is not something you are comfortable with, it is simply NOT worth it to use Cyclone.
That being said, nothing compares to Cyclone when it comes to xp/hr.
Using Cyclone and then doubling back to check for loot is simply not worth it.
Here are the two paths that I think you could take and how I would go about taking them:1. xp/hr
On this path, you will want to get that xp/hr number as high as possible and you will accept the fact that even with mini-map pings on legendary drops, you will inevitably miss some.
You will want to continue to use Cyclone because you have a TON of crit.
Your upgrade path will require a SoJ.
Let's look at your spirit profile:
Gain: 2.17 (hat) 0.33 (set) 2 (CoR) 1 (ES) 3 (Circ) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 12.5 spir/sec
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8 spir/sec
Net change: +1.7 spir/sec
This is a really respectable number for Spec C
builds which is what you are currently running.
The idea will be to replace Circ with Submission.
Because you have relatively high DPS, you will most likely want to switch to a FoT:TC based elite killing method which means switching DR:F to FoT:TC and SSS:FO to BoH:BW for the 15% buff.
This will move you into a style of elite killing that is: TR into them, pop Faith, spam MoC and hit with TC. Because you are now GAINING spirit while you kill (something that SSS:FO doesn't let you do) you can actually use the activation from Submission for the extra 12% damage.
Thunderclap's Synergy with Cyclone is so strong that you will kill elites almost as fast as SSS:FO except without a cooldown.
Now let's look at your spir/sec profile with a 2 spir/sec SoJ in place of Circ:
Gain: 2.17 (hat) 0.33 (set) 2 (ring) 2 (CoR) 1 (ES) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 11.03 spir/sec
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8 spir/sec
Net change: +0.23 spir/sec
You are net positive, you have 44% CHC which is enough for Cyclone and your eDPS has actually gone UP because the +bonus damage to elites from SoJ is WAY more effective than the DPS from your current ring.
With the addition of MoC:Submission, you will kill trash faster and, with SoJ + sub + FoT, you will kill elites faster.
BoH will make your gameplay safer even against Reflects packs and, all in all, with a single item purchase, you should easily pass the 75m xp/hr mark.
Ideally the SoJ has TR Crit, SW damage or FoT damage.2. loot/hr
On this path, you will want to drop Cyclone because it is killing things outside of your range.
There are several ways to achieve this.
The easiest, by far, is to switch Cyclone to Innerstorm and Circ to Submission.
You will ABSOLUTELY get less xp/hr because your crit is REALLY high and that means Cyclone is currently doing a ton of work for you.
In this case, your upgrade path would only include an SoJ if you could get SW damage on it. If you do get a 2 spir/sec SW damage SoJ, you would look to drop Inner Storm for Firestorm. This would drop you down to the +0.23 spir/sec mark which means you would no longer be able to use SSS:FO. You would replace SSS with BoH:BW and DR:F with WotHF:FoF.
Why FoF and not FoT:TC? Because FoF is a higher DPS spirit gen as long as you are are not running SW:C, which you are not.
This will move you into a style of elite killing that is: TR into them, pop Faith, spam MoC and hit with FoF. Because you are now GAINING spirit while you kill (something that SSS:FO doesn't let you do) you can actually use the activation from Submission for the extra 12% damage.
You would also look to increase you CHD because it is the best stat for you to gain DPS at your current level of crit and dex and giving up CHC for overall DPS increases will not effect your kill speed due to no longer using Cyclone.
Now, for your specific questions:
3. the above with 1.0.7 changes
1.0.7 will have very little effect on your decisions.
You will most likely drop DR:F, though I suggest doing this in both xp/hr and loot/hr paths anyways.
You will also want to drop Faith because it looses A LOT of its effectiveness when you can no longer snapshot SW damage. Your overall SW damage will increase regardless so you basically just gain a slot. You can keep Faith there for faster elite kills, you can add SSS:FO back in if you think you have enough spirit gen ... it will be up to you.
You have 1.08 APS
Assuming you use Faith, Blazing Wrath and 0.45 damage SW right now and only Blazing Wrath in 1.0.7:
1.0.6 SW dmg = 0.45 * (1+(0.3*1.08)) * 1.15 = 0.685 or 68.5% DPS
1.0.7 SW dmg = 0.6 * 1.15 = 0.69 or 69% DPS
You have a HIGHER DPS SW despite the fact that you are no longer using Faith.
Is it worth to invest at all atm, and if so go for Xeph+SoJ/SW and switch to MoC:Sub+SW:Firestorm at the cost of substantial CC and main stats (see my amulet/left ring) in terms of xp/loot/hr?
Or wait for 1.0.7. to come and run with WoL which i'm looking forward to subst. SSS with?
I think Xeph ammy is simply a bad purchase right now. The BoA ammy is so amazingly strong in 1.0.7 that it will be hard to justify the use of anything else.
I also think that the next big thing in the monk playstyle is WoL and I will be working tirelessly to include it as the main element or at least IN every build that I can think of.
That being said, TR is getting a flat-line buff and it was already possible to get 100m xp/hr. There is no reason to believe you will suddenly NOT be able to get 100m xp/hr in 1.0.7.
I think you will need a SoJ no matter what happens if you plan on staying with the TR monk style so a SoJ is a good investment.
My priority for SoJ stats would be 2.0+ spir/sec MANDATORY and everything else optional with: SW dmg >> TR crit (if xp/hr path) > WoL crit (if speculating) > WotHF damage (if loot/hr path) == FoT damage (if xp/hr path) > everything else.
Maybe only an SoJ with 2.2+ SR and go with either MoC:Sub+SW:Cyclone, or MoH:CB+BoH:BW+SW:Firestorm (in this case SoJ:SW but that's 90+mil with such high SR and SW 9+ and not much less @SW 6+ -> wouldn't really go lower on SW damage IF i bought that).
Another option for increased SW damage is a inna radiance, but those come at a price AND the ones i have seen so far had poor main stats. At max. there were like 4 to be found on the AH at a time and at this very moment none are available.
As previously stated, I think that SoJ is the best choice. I think that SW dmg is the best choice.
Firestorm-Circ has felt worse and resulted in worse loot/hr consistently for me when compared with Inner-Sub.
SW dmg Spir/sec Inna's Hats are so amazingly rare and expensive I wouldn't look there until WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY end-game.
Just as a point of reference, I am currently shopping for a 250m WoL crit SoJ.
Also i'd like to swap out my selffound inna boots for more dex/DPS but gonna loose around 11% EHP if i go for zunis with no AR or Armor (like nats boots) but ~170 vit (atm my favorite choice for +damage).
IK boots and Gloves with real high dex might be a way for increased DPS+ keeping EHP though obviously not as much DPS as zunis (I've seen IK gloves with 266 dex 200 str 9.5 cc @ 15 mil).
Or i look for a nats ring but then again i'd be stuck to my current setup (MoH:CB + BF:FitL + SSS:FO) even more since i would be spending even more spirit TRing and in an affordable range it would be one without CC neting me +1 CC and a bit +dex.
I assume you mean Nat's boots. I agree, while awesome that they are self-found, they are't really helping you atm.
I like both the Zuni's and the IK's route. I think they are both excellent ideas and really depend on how you are feeling. If you feel squishy and hate that you die, go IK's, if you feel low on the DPS end and wish you killed things faster, go Zuni's.
WHEW ... that was a lot of typing! Hope it helps.