Diablo® III

[Guide] The Tempest Rush Compendium 1.0.8

01/21/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Nickrobin
Hi guys, in your opinion can i get full tempest rush set work with 20m gold?


I would say you could, Nickrobin, but it would be terribly inefficient as your DPS would be way too low.

The absolute essentials you need to get a TR build going would be:
(I dug around for lowest prices on the AH for you)

4 Piece Inna's Set
- Vast Expanse (2.7m)
- Favor (1m)
- Temperance (Possibly as low as 3mil if you're patient)
- Radiance with 2 Spirit Regen/sec (Found one with 1.88 for 4mil)

Stone of Jordan with high Spirit Regen (Might get 1.8 or so for 3-4 million if you're lucky, but not with a good skill associated [Tempest Rush cc/Sweeping Wind])

Skorn - Should be able to get one with okay-ish dps and LoK for a couple million.

Then pick up an amulet with cc/cd/dex and you'll have yourself a TR Monk. It won't be easy going though (50K dps or thereabouts, most likely).

Happy farming, mate! :)

EDIT - I just noticed your Monk is naked. Fill in the free spaces (shoulders, gloves etc) with decent rare drops. Avoid anything with attack speed. Craft yourself a Dex Hellfire ring, too :)
Edited by Bootman#1917 on 1/22/2013 3:44 AM PST
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Hi again Druin
Thx for the reply. I have shopped some millions (Probably closer to 40 than 25) to hit spec A but with submission, as I run both Xephi and SoJ. Im considering dumping OWE as i use immortals hands and boots: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Malorn-2738/hero/580981
My damage feels kinda low (75000) but my skorn kinda sucks. Will this work? I still need a decent hellfire as well...

Secondly: Im neither gaining, nor spending spirit while rushing, so I will have trouble with SSS. Should I go MoH:Circle or SW:Inner instead of MoC:Submission? I think ill need submissions damage.

And lastly: What is that thing about getting tornados to spawn in the right direction? I dont think i fulle understand
Edited by Malorn#2738 on 1/22/2013 7:40 AM PST
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Hey Druin,

very elaborate and good guide here. Interesting in-depth read for a casual like me. Keep up the good work.

now the tl:dr

I started with barb but quickly moved on to monk. After like 40 hours of play, hitting inferno back in 1.0.2. and being totally overwhelmed by the exorbitant damage (seeing that by then i was running with but a bit AR, barely 10k dps and in general crappy hell-gear, thus eating dust 5+ times/min and more or less zerging my way through A1) i eventually got pissed and moved on to wiz and the popular cm spec to be able to somwhow manage inferno. Also managed to put together a fairly decent gear set on her regarding that i have neither the time (still "wasting" too much on the game) and no intention to spend real money nor the igg wealth to make it worthwhile flipping items on a level where it counts. As the patches went live and the inferno damage nerfs / skill dam increase / increased drop rates / MP etc. kicked in i could farm faster, therefore get better upgrades so i transitioned into MP1 Archon farming and MP8 ubers /w CM. Eventually got annoyed by the "never-stop-moving-an-don't-screw-up-timings-else-you-loose-tons-xp/run"- playstyle of archon.

So i started experimenting with my monk again and was doing something TR-ish (not that much of a forums reader here) when i stumbled upon this guide by accident while trying to look up items and skill combinations to maximize my spirit regen.
This was like 5 weeks ago and until now i gradually upgraded my monk. Also i'm on a limited budget (around 130 mil now) and stingy/trying to save up so i sniped (/ am using selffound) most of the items on my toons. On the way to my current gear i managed to flip most of the "interim solution" items for more than i bought them, so in the end i spent something like 40 mil on it in total.

As i am on EU and prices here are at least ~3-5x US prices, i'm having a hard time with the decision (read: can't really afford w/o being broke) buying such an SoJ or Xeph amulet, especially because it will mean a significant drop in stats/DPS apart from the SR. And i'm not into spending my whole fortune for items if they don't mean an upgrade. Since i'm bad at the math for this game, 1.0.7 showing up at the horizon AND - most important - looking to transition into maxing loot/hr rather than xp/hr (because i feel plvl50+ is good enough to go for that) i would like to know your thoughts on this:

---------------------

My D3Up Profile: http://d3up.com/b/48020/view/slug/xotox

My goals:

- Litte to no loss in EHP / sustainability

-Increase in DPS (read: better/higher spread damage) in oder to:

- Melt the trash faster (and maybe on screen for more loot). At Mp0 I barely one-shot them on hit atm, unless a crit occures which astoundes me @ 134k unbuffed / 209k buffed DPS (snapsnotted into SW). With my 50%cc that happens fairly often ofc, but still i feel like i'd miss 1/3 of the possible xp if i didn't circle one more time through them (ofc i don't, when 2-3 or at times even more cyclones pop). I admit i haven't got the sense for the bleed proc on the skorn yet and also might not trust the cyclones enough. Could also be the fear of missing a good drop: Nearly missed a 60 mil IK Helm the other day - it dropped delayed and nearly off screen from a cyclone-kill on a trash and i only noticed it b/c i circled for a final blow. MoC:Sub and/or SW:Firestorm might do the trick here, but not sure.

- Have a higher Elite-killspeed. Due to lack of LS, RD packs are a bit of a fuss ofc and i feel SSS:FO has a way too low recharge b/c i am running into elites every 10-20s on avarage rather than the 30s it is on CD. Killing the packs with DR:Fs is a pain and slows me soooo much, so i thought going for either a "cheap SoJ (max SR as the only premise) or inner storm for the Spirit regen to be able to afford the spirit cost of the "Sustained Attack" rune on SSS for the reduced CD.

Note: I will prob be unable to afford an LS Skorn but doing quite ok with my 23 yd pickup as is. Had an LoK Skorn but that was less damage and hp (see vit on my current one)

---------------------

Now for my questions:

Looking at my gear, what would you go for in terms of

1. an upgrade in xp/hr (currently at ~60mil-ish - last time i measured at 48.5% cc and it was 58 mil/hr. Seems low to me @134k unbuffed dps, but then again i pick up certain ilvl62 and 63 rares, which might be the cause)
2. maxing out loot/hr ?
3. the above with 1.0.7 changes

Is it worth to invest at all atm, and if so go for Xeph+SoJ/SW and switch to MoC:Sub+SW:Firestorm at the cost of substantial CC and main stats (see my amulet/left ring) in terms of xp/loot/hr?
Or wait for 1.0.7. to come and run with WoL which i'm looking forward to subst. SSS with?

Maybe only an SoJ with 2.2+ SR and go with either MoC:Sub+SW:Cyclone, or MoH:CB+BoH:BW+SW:Firestorm (in this case SoJ:SW but that's 90+mil with such high SR and SW 9+ and not much less @SW 6+ -> wouldn't really go lower on SW damage IF i bought that).
Another option for increased SW damage is a inna radiance, but those come at a price AND the ones i have seen so far had poor main stats. At max. there were like 4 to be found on the AH at a time and at this very moment none are available.

Also i'd like to swap out my selffound inna boots for more dex/DPS but gonna loose around 11% EHP if i go for zunis with no AR or Armor (like nats boots) but ~170 vit (atm my favorite choice for +damage).
IK boots and Gloves with real high dex might be a way for increased DPS+ keeping EHP though obviously not as much DPS as zunis (I've seen IK gloves with 266 dex 200 str 9.5 cc @ 15 mil).
Or i look for a nats ring but then again i'd be stuck to my current setup (MoH:CB + BF:FitL + SSS:FO) even more since i would be spending even more spirit TRing and in an affordable range it would be one without CC neting me +1 CC and a bit +dex.

Many ways to go - advice much appreciated. Cheers
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- Diablo III (Monk)
Posts: 7,174
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Scratch that. 150k dps unbuffed :D Got some awesome Zunimasa's Trail and some Awesome Gloves (got rid of old IK boots + gloves combo). Got 20k flat dps and lost just 200 armor and 15 AR. Hope profile will update asap.

Also, switched to SW: Inner Storm and MoC: Submission. Damn. Awesome.

Niiiiiice!

150k DPS is quite a lot for your average TR monk! :D

You are really well set-up to take advantage of the 1.0.7 BoA Ammys which is cool. Dropping Xeph is going to hurt me :(

Also, I personally like Inner-Sub more than Fire-Circ even though they should be roughly equal.

I am currently running a bells build (in prep for 1.0.7) on MP1 VotA for loot farming and I have to use 1 of the +3 spir/sec skills and I keep bouncing between the two ... and it just seems like Inner-Sub wins every time.

Hi Druin!

Fantastic guide and what's even more impressive is the followup you've done with everyone. The guide has been a wonderful help to me and I was looking to the collective wisdom of the forums for helps on next steps.

I've been smashing through MP0 runs with zero problems or downtime, but I'm wondering if there will be an advantage to running a different MP with the changes coming to xp in 1.0.7. I've got about 80M I could spend on upgrades if so.

Any feedback you (or any other experienced monks) have is appreciated.

Thanks!

Hello Shogroth!

Thanks a lot for the support! :D

As of this time, I do not know whether or not it will be worth it to go into higher MP's due to the increase in xp bonus. I think I am going to write up a "how 1.0.7 effects TR monks" thread and then link it in the current events section of this guide.

Ideally I would like to answer the three most popular questions I get regarding 1.0.7 which are:
Is TR still viable? (yes)
Does the snapshot nerf kill TR damage? (no)
Will higher MP levels be better for xp/hr? (I need to do the math)

Until then, sit tight! :D

01/21/2013 08:25 PMPosted by Nickrobin
Hi guys, in your opinion can i get full tempest rush set work with 20m gold?

I believe you CAN build a full TR suit for 20m. However, it would require several weeks of intermittent shopping, tracking prices and buying things on low-ball bids or 1d12h buyouts.

If you would prefer to simply buyout everything all at once, you will most likely spend between 35 and 50 million.


Thanks for the awesome help, Druin. I spent 30m on a Skorn, 3m on an amulet, and 15m on the Zunimassa's trail. Got my damage from 65k to 118k. Huge difference. As I'm currently running, I've got excess spirit. With Templar bonus and Inner Storm, it clocks in at just over 15/s. Means I can probably look at dropping either Exalted Soul, Chant of Resonance, or possibly, as a stretch, Inner Storm? You were spot on about being able to be super efficient without the use of a Xeph. Thanks for saving me a ton of gold, man!

If I do drop a passive, which should I drop? Should I pick up fleet footed again now my DPS is rather high, or should I go for STI/OWE? I've died once or twice since swapping gear, both times to Reflects Damage packs when SSS is on cooldown. Since It's getting a nerf in 1.0.7 I dare say there's no point gearing around more survivability?

My last question, not sure if it's been covered a few pages back, I dare say it has but I couldn't see the answer with a quick glance. With 1.0.7's changes to snapshotting of SW, I'm willing to bet that Deadly Reach:Foresight will no longer be the most efficient primary attack. Will we be making the shift back to Thunderclap, possibly even Quickening?

Cheers once again, Druin. The community needs more awesome people like you! :)

Hi again Bootman!

First off, I am really glad that everything worked out so well for you! :D

As for your questions:
1.
ES is the worst of all the "utility" passives for TR monks because there is no benefit to having a larger pool of spirit. The only important stat, unless you are net-negative in spirit gain, is spir GAIN vs spir LOSS per second while TR'ing.

Note: This will change if you decide to make the move to a bells-based TR build post 1.0.7 ... but that is a ways off and I haven't even started to finalize that build yet! :D

2.
If you don't die often, Fleet might actually be a good choice. Just remember, added move speed is a double-edged sword, you pass through the level more quickly, but you do less damage to monsters, on average, because they spend less time in your SW, TR and Sub.

Finding the right passives will be a balancing act for now because it will mostly depend on your gameplay. (If you want to zzzzzzzzzzzzzz your way through, STI will mean you don't have to pay attention, if you want to be on your toes 24/7 FF is probably higher xp/hr as long as you pick your movement paths wisely)

3.
I do not know if the reflects change will have much of an impact on TR monks. As far as I can tell, on the PTR, reflects packs start the encounter with the reflects buff on. This means the the potential to instantly impale yourself still exists ... only testing and experience will tell if the change means TR monks can afford to stack less mitigation.

I do not enjoy doing extensive PTR testing because it always feels like a waste of my time (no permanent gains) so I will be holding off on answering a lot of these 1.0.7 questions until 1.0.7 goes live! :D

4.
It is possible that DR:Foresight will not remain in the build. The time lost to re-casting it may outweigh the increased damage. Furthermore, you are giving up a skill slot that can either be a MUCH better spirit gen (WotHF:FoF being the best for non-Cyclone monks) or another buff/spirit spender/ally ... ect.

Just a quick calc on how much DR:Foresight would effect your xp/hr:
On average, doing Kaho's route, each run took me 6:00 minutes with my "end-game" gear.
This means you would have to re-buff DR:foresight 12 times per run. At 1.08 APS,

DR:Foresight takes 2.07 seconds to cycle through all 3 of its attacks. 12*2.07 = 24.9 seconds just re-buffing Foresight.

Assuming my 6 minute run is now ~6:20 I go from 60/6 = 10 runs per hour to 60/6.333 = 9.5 runs per hour.

Assuming you were getting 80m xp/hr (8m xp/run) you are now only getting 76m xp/hr.

This isn't a HUGE loss ... but it's a loss and that means there is a strong opportunity cost associated with Foresight that wasn't there before.

We will have to see! :D

Hi again Druin
Thx for the reply. I have shopped some millions (Probably closer to 40 than 25) to hit spec A but with submission, as I run both Xephi and SoJ. Im considering dumping OWE as i use immortals hands and boots: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Malorn-2738/hero/580981
My damage feels kinda low (75000) but my skorn kinda sucks. Will this work? I still need a decent hellfire as well...

Secondly: Im neither gaining, nor spending spirit while rushing, so I will have trouble with SSS. Should I go MoH:Circle or SW:Inner instead of MoC:Submission? I think ill need submissions damage.

Hello again Malorn!

1.
I think that 75k DPS is too low to TR effectively. Thankfully, getting to a bit higher DPS shouldn't be a problem for you.

Drop that xeph ammy (1 spir/sec is too low anyways) sell it for a redic price, buy a rare ammy with CHC CHD dex and maybe a sustain or mitigation stat.
Farm exactly 1 more hellfire ring and make it roll dex.

DPS problem solved!

2.
I am skeptical as to your "drop OWE" plan. I do not see a whole lot of AR on your gear and your life will definitely drop when you ditch the hellfire you are wearing in favor of a Dex version.

3.
Your profile shows you using Inner Storm and I agree with this decision.
Spirit calcs (with sub, without xeph):
Gain: 1.97 (hat) 0.33 (set) 1.67 (ring) 2 (CoR) 3 (Inner) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 13.19
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8
Net Change: 13.19 - 10.8 = +2.39

This is more than enough spir/sec to use SSS:FO on cooldown while infinitely TRing AND it doesn't use Xeph so you can up your DPS with ease! Winning!

4.
SW:Cyclone currently (and in 1.0.7 so far) snapshots the direction you are facing when you cast it. This means that if you are facing due North-East when you cast SW:Cyclone for the first time, it will spawn Cyclones in the North-East direction forever until you allow SW to drop off your character and then re-cast it.

I recommend using this to make Cyclones always spawn BEHIND your character and thus make them more prone to clean up mobs you leave behind.

This is why my entire run is done moving from the NE quarter of the map to the SW quarter and I always stand facing NE when I cast SW:Cyclone.

Hey Druin,

very elaborate and good guide here. Interesting in-depth read for a casual like me. Keep up the good work.

Hello Xotox!

Glad you liked the guide! :D

As I see it, you have one major question and then several minor questions. I will address the major question first:
"What can I do to increase my xp/hr and/or loot/hr?"

The very first thing we need to talk about here is the correlation between xp/hr and loot/hr. Specifically, that they are negatively correlated. This means that as you make changes and gear purchases to increase one, the other will naturally suffer.

This isn't to say that you must accept terrible loot/hr in order to get good xp/hr, or vice versa. However, many of the skills and gear choices that will maximize one will NOT maximize the other.

This means that you are going to want to focus on one and not the other.

From the look of things, it seems like you are currently trying really hard to max both and that is causing some frustration. With your gear and spec, you should be WAY higher than 60m xp/hr which means you are too afraid of missing items and too eager to pick up low EV items to gain the full benefit that Cyclone has to offer.

Cyclone is a truly wonderful skill but it comes with some significant drawbacks. The biggest of these drawbacks is that it will consistently kill things outside of your view and those things will sometimes drop loot. If this is not something you are comfortable with, it is simply NOT worth it to use Cyclone.

That being said, nothing compares to Cyclone when it comes to xp/hr.

Using Cyclone and then doubling back to check for loot is simply not worth it.

Here are the two paths that I think you could take and how I would go about taking them:
1. xp/hr
On this path, you will want to get that xp/hr number as high as possible and you will accept the fact that even with mini-map pings on legendary drops, you will inevitably miss some.

You will want to continue to use Cyclone because you have a TON of crit.

Your upgrade path will require a SoJ.
Let's look at your spirit profile:
Gain: 2.17 (hat) 0.33 (set) 2 (CoR) 1 (ES) 3 (Circ) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 12.5 spir/sec
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8 spir/sec
Net change: +1.7 spir/sec

This is a really respectable number for Spec C builds which is what you are currently running.

The idea will be to replace Circ with Submission.

Because you have relatively high DPS, you will most likely want to switch to a FoT:TC based elite killing method which means switching DR:F to FoT:TC and SSS:FO to BoH:BW for the 15% buff.

This will move you into a style of elite killing that is: TR into them, pop Faith, spam MoC and hit with TC. Because you are now GAINING spirit while you kill (something that SSS:FO doesn't let you do) you can actually use the activation from Submission for the extra 12% damage.

Thunderclap's Synergy with Cyclone is so strong that you will kill elites almost as fast as SSS:FO except without a cooldown.

Now let's look at your spir/sec profile with a 2 spir/sec SoJ in place of Circ:
Gain: 2.17 (hat) 0.33 (set) 2 (ring) 2 (CoR) 1 (ES) * 1.47 (GP + Templar) = 11.03 spir/sec
Loss: 1.0 (APS) * 1+ 0.08 (pants) = 1.08 * 10 (TR cost) = 10.8 spir/sec
Net change: +0.23 spir/sec

You are net positive, you have 44% CHC which is enough for Cyclone and your eDPS has actually gone UP because the +bonus damage to elites from SoJ is WAY more effective than the DPS from your current ring.

With the addition of MoC:Submission, you will kill trash faster and, with SoJ + sub + FoT, you will kill elites faster.

BoH will make your gameplay safer even against Reflects packs and, all in all, with a single item purchase, you should easily pass the 75m xp/hr mark.

Ideally the SoJ has TR Crit, SW damage or FoT damage.

2. loot/hr
On this path, you will want to drop Cyclone because it is killing things outside of your range.

There are several ways to achieve this.

The easiest, by far, is to switch Cyclone to Innerstorm and Circ to Submission.

You will ABSOLUTELY get less xp/hr because your crit is REALLY high and that means Cyclone is currently doing a ton of work for you.

In this case, your upgrade path would only include an SoJ if you could get SW damage on it. If you do get a 2 spir/sec SW damage SoJ, you would look to drop Inner Storm for Firestorm. This would drop you down to the +0.23 spir/sec mark which means you would no longer be able to use SSS:FO. You would replace SSS with BoH:BW and DR:F with WotHF:FoF.

Why FoF and not FoT:TC? Because FoF is a higher DPS spirit gen as long as you are are not running SW:C, which you are not.

This will move you into a style of elite killing that is: TR into them, pop Faith, spam MoC and hit with FoF. Because you are now GAINING spirit while you kill (something that SSS:FO doesn't let you do) you can actually use the activation from Submission for the extra 12% damage.

You would also look to increase you CHD because it is the best stat for you to gain DPS at your current level of crit and dex and giving up CHC for overall DPS increases will not effect your kill speed due to no longer using Cyclone.

Now, for your specific questions:
3. the above with 1.0.7 changes

1.0.7 will have very little effect on your decisions.

You will most likely drop DR:F, though I suggest doing this in both xp/hr and loot/hr paths anyways.

You will also want to drop Faith because it looses A LOT of its effectiveness when you can no longer snapshot SW damage. Your overall SW damage will increase regardless so you basically just gain a slot. You can keep Faith there for faster elite kills, you can add SSS:FO back in if you think you have enough spirit gen ... it will be up to you.

Math:
You have 1.08 APS
Assuming you use Faith, Blazing Wrath and 0.45 damage SW right now and only Blazing Wrath in 1.0.7:
1.0.6 SW dmg = 0.45 * (1+(0.3*1.08)) * 1.15 = 0.685 or 68.5% DPS
1.0.7 SW dmg = 0.6 * 1.15 = 0.69 or 69% DPS

You have a HIGHER DPS SW despite the fact that you are no longer using Faith.

Is it worth to invest at all atm, and if so go for Xeph+SoJ/SW and switch to MoC:Sub+SW:Firestorm at the cost of substantial CC and main stats (see my amulet/left ring) in terms of xp/loot/hr?
Or wait for 1.0.7. to come and run with WoL which i'm looking forward to subst. SSS with?

I think Xeph ammy is simply a bad purchase right now. The BoA ammy is so amazingly strong in 1.0.7 that it will be hard to justify the use of anything else.

I also think that the next big thing in the monk playstyle is WoL and I will be working tirelessly to include it as the main element or at least IN every build that I can think of.

That being said, TR is getting a flat-line buff and it was already possible to get 100m xp/hr. There is no reason to believe you will suddenly NOT be able to get 100m xp/hr in 1.0.7.

I think you will need a SoJ no matter what happens if you plan on staying with the TR monk style so a SoJ is a good investment.

My priority for SoJ stats would be 2.0+ spir/sec MANDATORY and everything else optional with: SW dmg >> TR crit (if xp/hr path) > WoL crit (if speculating) > WotHF damage (if loot/hr path) == FoT damage (if xp/hr path) > everything else.

Maybe only an SoJ with 2.2+ SR and go with either MoC:Sub+SW:Cyclone, or MoH:CB+BoH:BW+SW:Firestorm (in this case SoJ:SW but that's 90+mil with such high SR and SW 9+ and not much less @SW 6+ -> wouldn't really go lower on SW damage IF i bought that).
Another option for increased SW damage is a inna radiance, but those come at a price AND the ones i have seen so far had poor main stats. At max. there were like 4 to be found on the AH at a time and at this very moment none are available.

As previously stated, I think that SoJ is the best choice. I think that SW dmg is the best choice.

Firestorm-Circ has felt worse and resulted in worse loot/hr consistently for me when compared with Inner-Sub.

SW dmg Spir/sec Inna's Hats are so amazingly rare and expensive I wouldn't look there until WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY end-game.

Just as a point of reference, I am currently shopping for a 250m WoL crit SoJ.

Also i'd like to swap out my selffound inna boots for more dex/DPS but gonna loose around 11% EHP if i go for zunis with no AR or Armor (like nats boots) but ~170 vit (atm my favorite choice for +damage).
IK boots and Gloves with real high dex might be a way for increased DPS+ keeping EHP though obviously not as much DPS as zunis (I've seen IK gloves with 266 dex 200 str 9.5 cc @ 15 mil).
Or i look for a nats ring but then again i'd be stuck to my current setup (MoH:CB + BF:FitL + SSS:FO) even more since i would be spending even more spirit TRing and in an affordable range it would be one without CC neting me +1 CC and a bit +dex.

I assume you mean Nat's boots. I agree, while awesome that they are self-found, they are't really helping you atm.

I like both the Zuni's and the IK's route. I think they are both excellent ideas and really depend on how you are feeling. If you feel squishy and hate that you die, go IK's, if you feel low on the DPS end and wish you killed things faster, go Zuni's.

WHEW ... that was a lot of typing! Hope it helps.

Good luck!
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Hello again Druin.

When my monk ding 60 I post here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7199912895?page=26#515 seeking some guidance. Now that I am 32 paragon levels into this I want to ride the TR train all the way to 100.

Over the last couple pages you have mentioned multiple time that getting a good Skorn is a wise investment for a TR monk. I currently have a 1381 DPS Skorn with high CHD and DEX/VIT combo. Upgrading it wasnt on my radar but perhaps I dont understand what it takes to get to the next level. I currently have very little sustain (200 LoK, 529 LPS). What purpose does a high DPS lifesteal Skorn serve? With better gears things die faster so wouldnt you need less sustain? Or is a LS Skorn to farm higher MPs?

So in terms of what to upgrade next...

I would like to get to the point where I can run MoC but I either need to get a Xeph without CHC (cant afford one with) or a new SoJ...I like my set helm and it has close to 2 sp/s. My SoJ is near perfect except for the low regen, 6% cold, 7% TR, would down grading cold elemental damage and TR bonus for 2+ regen and MoC be a DPS increase? I see you think the new BoA amulets are BiS (given a good roll) over Xeph's with CHC.

Or switching out my IK boots/gloves for rares/zuni's.
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Yay, they're not nerfing Skorns/Black Weapons! I'm pumped for continued use of my TR Monk.

Hey Druin I've been adjusting your build in multiple ways, and my recent exploits have led me down the path of FoT + Blinding flash for elites (kills them slightly faster if not on par with 7 sided, besides some really strange elite combos), keeps my buffed TR damage high as well and might be the goto build in 1.07/PTR. I also attempted a Furygenless build with 7 sided strike on Left Click, but of course from pure mathematics and inevitable stuttering/lag I run out of spirit which is annoying.

I tried Seaboots build with dashing strike but my DPS just felt a little too low, and I wasn't instantly killing them as much/as fast and I'm wondering if my use of dashing strike was just incorrect.

Any other tips on my gear? I'm still so proud of the Xeph Ammy, I'm sad to hear you think it'll be inadequate come 1.07. Should I dump it for.... who knows how much? I feel like it's got to be a good ammy for all Monks, especially in PVP.

Thoughts?
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Thanks, Druin, for the very detailed reply. Appreciate it very much.

As i stated i am looking to transition into more loot/hr eventually. The question about the xp was more to see a comparison / what you think as a TR pro. I might transition to loot a bit later though when 1.0.7 goes live and for now stick to maxing Plvls as quickly as possible. There will be an ROI to any purchases i make and in the end it's still a game. Hasn't earned me my living yet and never will ;)

I was also thinking of trying Cyclone strike over WoL in 1.0.7 (being that it also gets buffed AND has utility) so i'm currently trying to snipe a 2.33 spirit/sec SoJ with 5 CS reduction.

My current ring i bought because of the following train of thoughts:

"Since trash doesn't die instantly if i don't crit (with TR - again i don't trust the cyclones enough here) i have to raise my min damage so that even my lowest regular hits surpass the hp of most white mobs. Therefore the avarage damage stat and not CHD, which makes stuff more expensive. The 1.0.7. buff to TR damage will help greatly here." And then ofc i was looking to max. CC in order to proc cyclones decently without having to invest in the SoJ.

Because you have relatively high DPS, you will most likely want to switch to a FoT:TC based elite killing method which means switching DR:F to FoT:TC and SSS:FO to BoH:BW for the 15% buff.

This will move you into a style of elite killing that is: TR into them, pop Faith, spam MoC and hit with TC. Because you are now GAINING spirit while you kill (something that SSS:FO doesn't let you do) you can actually use the activation from Submission for the extra 12% damage.

Thunderclap's Synergy with Cyclone is so strong that you will kill elites almost as fast as SSS:FO except without a cooldown.


Above thoughts (melt trash faster) made me run BF+BoH to buff SW even more and kill elites with DR. Also i refreshed it every 30 secs to have a harder-hitting TR. This led to me hardly being able to manage my resource, because i was basically stutter-stepping with TR. A week ago i decided it was terribly slow and reluctantly dropped DR to basically try what you suggest here namely FoT:TC but that was (ofc) with MoH for the regen - it did nowhere near feel as fast as SSS...MoC might do the trick, though, when i run with an SoJ. Two days ago i said to myself "this isn't it either - seems you have to buy that SoJ in the end..." and for the sake of efficiency i went back to SSS but am not happy with it due to long CD as i said. I also adapted my playstyle and forced myself to TR more constantly. Way better now.

Conclusion: The playstyle matters!

01/22/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Druin
BoH will make your gameplay safer even against Reflects packs and, all in all, with a single item purchase, you should easily pass the 75m xp/hr mark.


RD will still hurt and slow me, i guess, until i make it into some LS.

Also good point with WotHF - didn't even think of that.

Thank you for confirming what i already thought. I am now more confident that the invest in an SoJ is a good one because both paths need it and it enables me to play around with specs way better (i.e. swap MoH for MoC and still go with cyclones instead of inner storm). And i can look for fairly "cheap ones" because the SR is what matters first and - as you said - only IDEALLY it has SW dam/TR crit but it's not mandatory due to my already high CC. I haven't been doing this for long and therefore the number of cyclones popping only FELT "decent enough" when i hit 50% CC. Will see how the 44% feels. As i said i still have to get a sense for this.

01/22/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Druin
I think Xeph ammy is simply a bad purchase right now. The BoA ammy is so amazingly strong in 1.0.7 that it will be hard to justify the use of anything else.


BoA are those "Bound on Account" ammys i guess? That statement also leads to not being able to run your endgame spec any more, right? BUT i take it from a certain Plvl on/ reaching P100 the xp/hr can be neglected anyway - that point is already (almost) reached for me. Levels will come while you loot.

Long and good read, thanks a bunch.

spare me for any linguistic mistakes - i'm not a native speaker.

Stay happy ;)
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01/22/2013 12:38 PMPosted by dozens
My SoJ is near perfect except for the low regen, 6% cold, 7% TR,


isn't cold damage bad for TR sind RD backfires the slow on you? or do you just ignore that because you kill them fast anyway?
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This may be a stupid question but if I am using innerstorm do I still get the buffed damage if I get the foresight buff and FITL before I cast my InnerStorm?
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01/22/2013 11:13 PMPosted by Jhenn
This may be a stupid question but if I am using innerstorm do I still get the buffed damage if I get the foresight buff and FITL before I cast my InnerStorm?


Yes, you still get the buffed damage. It applies to Sweeping Winds no matter what rune you use.
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Thx again Druin
I got myself a 9 million amy to replace my xephi: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Malorn-2738/hero/580981

My damage is now just below 90000, which helps a lot. Ill try to get a dex hellfire soon, and if it gets CC ille go with cyclone and circular breath over inner storm and submission right?

Thanks for the hard work. This build has renewed my entertainment with diablo 3.

Btw. Running TR without any kind of pickup radius really sucks xD
Edited by Malorn#2738 on 1/23/2013 2:42 AM PST
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Hey again fellow TR Brethren,

I managed to get me an imo decent SoJ at an ok price of 56 mil (on EU) as far as i can tell compared to the others. What is your opinion on this:

5% poison dam - pity ;)
2.33 SR (havent seen any go higher yet, so i assume that is max)
+23% elite damage
+11% SW damage

seeing that the prices skyrocket into the 100s if the SW damage is at max of 12% and/or the elite damage goes above 27, i feel this could be quite a bragain - don't let me down and comfirm please to soothe my conscience - after all nearly half my fortune went on that ;)

@ Druin (and others too ofc):

still looking to snipe me a cyclone strike one because that might be good in the then free skil slot or even an "alternative" to WoL in 1.0.7. What do you think?
You can get the spirit cost to 25 with EoTS. Implosion is a sexy rune too but then ofc it'll cost 45 which is fairly high for 313% wep damage compared to 829 on WoL:EW @ 40 spirit, i know, BUT with a utility which shouldn't be underestimated imo.

Also LTK:SS looks appealing
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Druin,

You can see the setup I've been running in my profile. I am using Firestorm because I hate the idea of missing a legendary/set piece off screen :x

I recently upgraded my HF ring to the one I'm wearing (the dmg modifier is actually 51-49), which upped my damage but increased my AS. My question is about amulet - currently using a Xeph ammy, but I also have my other one that adds ~21k dmg. Which setup do you think is better?
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- Diablo III (Monk)
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Hello again Druin.

When my monk ding 60 I post here http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7199912895?page=26#515 seeking some guidance. Now that I am 32 paragon levels into this I want to ride the TR train all the way to 100.

Over the last couple pages you have mentioned multiple time that getting a good Skorn is a wise investment for a TR monk. I currently have a 1381 DPS Skorn with high CHD and DEX/VIT combo. Upgrading it wasnt on my radar but perhaps I dont understand what it takes to get to the next level. I currently have very little sustain (200 LoK, 529 LPS). What purpose does a high DPS lifesteal Skorn serve? With better gears things die faster so wouldnt you need less sustain? Or is a LS Skorn to farm higher MPs?

So in terms of what to upgrade next...

I would like to get to the point where I can run MoC but I either need to get a Xeph without CHC (cant afford one with) or a new SoJ...I like my set helm and it has close to 2 sp/s. My SoJ is near perfect except for the low regen, 6% cold, 7% TR, would down grading cold elemental damage and TR bonus for 2+ regen and MoC be a DPS increase? I see you think the new BoA amulets are BiS (given a good roll) over Xeph's with CHC.

Or switching out my IK boots/gloves for rares/zuni's.

Hello Dozens.

1.
Yay! TR to 100 for the win! That is what I did and it was so fantastic I just never stopped TRing! :D

2.
Having a high DPS LS Skorn is basically like turning God-mode on. It allows you to stop stacking mitigation of basically any kind, drop vit, play in a more relaxed manner, stand in w/e elites decide to throw at you and do all of this while STILL dying LESS than you would without the LS.

I am going to make an educated guess and say that the maximum possible xp/hr is achievable without a LS Skorn, but it would be so much HARDER and less likely I simply don't think it's worthwhile.

That being said, LS Skorns that aren't massive DPS downgrades tend to be very expensive and, for many monks, it is more cost-effective to buy other items first.

I am simply suggesting a LS Skorn for some people because it fits their progression path well.

To be fair, I think that LS Skorn also has the advantage of opening up options. With a LoK Skorn you are 100% stuck in MP0. With my LS Skorn I can transition into a MP5 Bells route without issue or even switch up a couple items and slam my face into MP10 with a more cookie-cutter build.

LS Skorns are so awesome.

3.
As long as you run ES instead of FF, your SoJ is, for all practical purposes, a 2.32 spir/sec SoJ.

This means that you are exactly 1 ultra-expensive Xeph ammy away from the end-game spec! :D

Here is your issue:
Let's say, best case scenario, you snipe a nice DPS Xeph w/o crit (no such thing as sniping a crit Xeph these days). This xeph actually keeps your DPS where it's at right now but you lose the 10% CHC on your ammy.

Now you have the spirit to run the end-game spec but you don't have to CHC to run the end-game spec ... bummer.

Solution:
Run Firestorm-Submission isntead of Cyclone-Sub.

Is this less xp/hr than Cyclone-Sub? Of course it is.
Is this more xp/hr than Cyclone-Circ? Most likely.

So you have the option of getting a dps-based Xeph without CHC and then switching to a firestorm-sub build.

However, the only reason I think this is the case is that your Ammy isn't actually all that good right now.

When BoA ammys come out, if you spend some time and effort I am sure you can roll a good one with CHC and CHD and then increase your DPS by ~15k without much trouble.

Then it will most likely NOT be worth it to swap to a xeph and firestorm-sub.

This is up to you. I am super excited to make BoA ammys but not everyone will be! :D

4.
I am not sure if the BoA ammys will be BiS. I am sure they will be better than the vast vast vast majority of alternative ammys out there right now.

This include my Xeph which is, on the scale of things, pretty good.

I think a 200dex 10CHC 2.2spir/sec Xeph ammy is still a BiS item and can't reasonably be replaced by a BoA ammy for a TR spec.

But a 200dex 10CHC 2.2spir/sec Xeph ammy is worth >1b gold and a BoA ammy is ~free if you farm it .... soooooo yea.

Yay, they're not nerfing Skorns/Black Weapons! I'm pumped for continued use of my TR Monk.

Hey Druin I've been adjusting your build in multiple ways, and my recent exploits have led me down the path of FoT + Blinding flash for elites (kills them slightly faster if not on par with 7 sided, besides some really strange elite combos), keeps my buffed TR damage high as well and might be the goto build in 1.07/PTR. I also attempted a Furygenless build with 7 sided strike on Left Click, but of course from pure mathematics and inevitable stuttering/lag I run out of spirit which is annoying.

I tried Seaboots build with dashing strike but my DPS just felt a little too low, and I wasn't instantly killing them as much/as fast and I'm wondering if my use of dashing strike was just incorrect.

Any other tips on my gear? I'm still so proud of the Xeph Ammy, I'm sad to hear you think it'll be inadequate come 1.07. Should I dump it for.... who knows how much? I feel like it's got to be a good ammy for all Monks, especially in PVP.

Thoughts?

Hey KingEight,

1.
Yay! Not nerfing our Skorns ftw!!!! Plus, the new data on Marquis Rubies makes it looks like they will be better than Emeralds for many many many TR'ers! :D

2.
I think that some form of "elite killing" Spirit gen build will end up taking the place of the current Faith+Foresight meta in 1.0.7. It's hard to tell exactly what that will look like because the only FoT build I currently like uses both Blazing Wrath AND Faith and that will be silly next patch.

I am currently using a Spirtgen-less build on live and really enjoying it. I nailed down a 2.66 elites/min average over a 1 hour playsession 6 hours in a row with this Bells build and that is in MP1 ... on 1.0.7 I can do almost that good in MP5!!!!!

As for xp/hr ... we shall see.

3.
Seaboot's build is really strong, but he also has like 160k dps ... so it's not exactly the most accessible build! :D

4.
Your Xeph ammy is actually much closer to the "it's going to be REALLY hard to find a BoA ammy that beats it" range.

I wouldn't worry. For all intents and purposes, that Xeph will stay BiS for a long time to come! :D

... errrr... I mean ... it is a terrible ammy right now ... sell it ASAP ... to me! ;)

Note: I use my xeph in PVP almost exclusively even with some of the 1b ammys my monk friends have let me use on the PTR ... can't beat spirit regen in pvp! :D

5.
You don't need gear suggestions. You are at the end-game, enjoy it! :D It's a wonderful feeling.

Now it's up to you to blaze your own path. Now you have to be the one to explore new builds and new items setups and then write guides about them!

Good luck! :D

01/22/2013 02:38 PMPosted by XotoX
Thanks, Druin, for the very detailed reply. Appreciate it very much.

It is truly my pleasure! Thanks for taking the time to read it all and converse. I like getting feedback on stuff!

My current ring i bought because of the following train of thoughts:

"Since trash doesn't die instantly if i don't crit (with TR - again i don't trust the cyclones enough here) i have to raise my min damage so that even my lowest regular hits surpass the hp of most white mobs. Therefore the avarage damage stat and not CHD, which makes stuff more expensive. The 1.0.7. buff to TR damage will help greatly here." And then ofc i was looking to max. CC in order to proc cyclones decently without having to invest in the SoJ.

That is, what I consider to be, the "correct" train of thought. That is exactly what led me to my Skorn and why I desperately want a Dex/CHC Xeph as opposed to a CHD/CHC Xeph.

That being said, SoJ is too good to pass up. That frame of thought is a really good one though. Keep it and use it for future gear upgrades!

Above thoughts (melt trash faster) made me run BF+BoH to buff SW even more and kill elites with DR. Also i refreshed it every 30 secs to have a harder-hitting TR. This led to me hardly being able to manage my resource, because i was basically stutter-stepping with TR. A week ago i decided it was terribly slow and reluctantly dropped DR to basically try what you suggest here namely FoT:TC but that was (ofc) with MoH for the regen - it did nowhere near feel as fast as SSS...MoC might do the trick, though, when i run with an SoJ. Two days ago i said to myself "this isn't it either - seems you have to buy that SoJ in the end..." and for the sake of efficiency i went back to SSS but am not happy with it due to long CD as i said. I also adapted my playstyle and forced myself to TR more constantly. Way better now.

I agree, nothing compares to SSS:FO when it comes to elite killing speed.

But 1 SSS:FO per 30s vs every single elite pack at FoT:TC speeds can actually average out to be pretty similar.

Also, the general nerf to DR:F coming in 1.0.7 (due to snapshotting being removed) will make it that much harder to justify SSS:FO over FoT:TC... we shall see.

BoA are those "Bound on Account" ammys i guess? That statement also leads to not being able to run your endgame spec any more, right? BUT i take it from a certain Plvl on/ reaching P100 the xp/hr can be neglected anyway - that point is already (almost) reached for me. Levels will come while you loot.

You would no longer be able to run the SSS:FO version of my end-game spec. But I do not think that will be optimal in 1.0.7 anyways.

With a 2.2 ring, a 2.4 hat, you will still be able to run Cyclone-Sub and then you can use FoT:TC to kill elites and you will have an additional ~15-25k DPS (depending on how good your xeph was) which will make trash die faster (maybe up to MP level ... we shall see) and elites die just as fast as they did with SSS.

That was Seaboot's strat and one I will try to adapt as well once BoA ammys make BiS ammys no longer cost 2b gold! :D

I chose xp/hr >>> loot/hr and now that I am plvl100, I can focus on JUST loot/hr without feeling like I am "missing" something. It all comes down to personal preference.

I don't even have a write-up for maximizing loot/hr yet because I do not feel that I have adequate data.

When I do, I will put it in the guide! :D

Long and good read, thanks a bunch.

spare me for any linguistic mistakes - i'm not a native speaker.

Stay happy ;)

Your English skills are better than plenty of Americans I know ... don't sweat it!

01/22/2013 02:42 PMPosted by XotoX
isn't cold damage bad for TR sind RD backfires the slow on you? or do you just ignore that because you kill them fast anyway?

I did not enjoy my experience with Cold Damage when I had an SoJ with that element.

It is a minor inconvenience though and, I imagine, it is better for higher MP's and PVP where Crowd Control is more important.

Plus the 1.0.7 changes to RD will make it even less of a problem.

Thx again Druin
I got myself a 9 million amy to replace my xephi: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Malorn-2738/hero/580981

My damage is now just below 90000, which helps a lot. Ill try to get a dex hellfire soon, and if it gets CC ille go with cyclone and circular breath over inner storm and submission right?

Thanks for the hard work. This build has renewed my entertainment with diablo 3.

Btw. Running TR without any kind of pickup radius really sucks xD

Yay! Glad you are enjoying it!

The general rule is CHC > 42% = Cyclone-Circ, CHC <42% = Inner-Sub.

I went plvl0-100 with 0 pickup radius and then FINALLY got 6 on my bracers and I feel pretty dumb for not doing it earlier .... I have SUCH little gold collected on my character compared to my playtime / elites killed! :D

Hey again fellow TR Brethren,

I managed to get me an imo decent SoJ at an ok price of 56 mil (on EU) as far as i can tell compared to the others. What is your opinion on this:

5% poison dam - pity ;)
2.33 SR (havent seen any go higher yet, so i assume that is max)
+23% elite damage
+11% SW damage

seeing that the prices skyrocket into the 100s if the SW damage is at max of 12% and/or the elite damage goes above 27, i feel this could be quite a bragain - don't let me down and comfirm please to soothe my conscience - after all nearly half my fortune went on that ;)

@ Druin (and others too ofc):

still looking to snipe me a cyclone strike one because that might be good in the then free skil slot or even an "alternative" to WoL in 1.0.7. What do you think?
You can get the spirit cost to 25 with EoTS. Implosion is a sexy rune too but then ofc it'll cost 45 which is fairly high for 313% wep damage compared to 829 on WoL:EW @ 40 spirit, i know, BUT with a utility which shouldn't be underestimated imo.

Also LTK:SS looks appealing

That is a truly wonderful SoJ.

You will not need to replace that for the next ~1b in gear upgrades that you do. Grats!

Cyclone Strike seems so much worse than Bells. Even at 25 spirit cost, 310% damage compared to 40spirit for 880% damage is SOOOOOOOOO much better.

Plus, bells can hit >8 mobs.

That is not to dash your hopes or anything, I am just a lot more skeptical about the Cyclone Strike build compared to the bells build! :D

TBH, we need more people who are willing to get some gear and try something totally out there. How else will we know? If all we do is just sit an theorycraft we may miss some of the best stuff our class has to offer. In that vein, go for it!

I WAY prefer LTK:HoY. It's got good AoE, easy to target AND it comes with a slow.
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- Diablo III (Monk)
Posts: 7,174
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Druin,

You can see the setup I've been running in my profile. I am using Firestorm because I hate the idea of missing a legendary/set piece off screen :x

I recently upgraded my HF ring to the one I'm wearing (the dmg modifier is actually 51-49), which upped my damage but increased my AS. My question is about amulet - currently using a Xeph ammy, but I also have my other one that adds ~21k dmg. Which setup do you think is better?

HAI PIFFLE!!!!!!!!!

First, your Hellfire ring is in the wrong slot.
Erreyone knows it goes in the RIGHT slot ...... <sigh> noobs ... when will they ever learn? ;)

Second, I think I can answer that question with Math!

Assumptions:
For the sake of argument, we are going to assume that TR has a radius of 5 yards. I have not yet thought to actually find out TR's radius because I am a noob. I think 5 yards is pretty close due to personal feeling and having used TR more than just about anyone in the whole game.

Comparison of skills:
TR: 5 yards
SW: 10 yards
Firestorm: 14 yards
Submission: 20 yards

Again, for the sake of argument, I am going to assume that increased Area *0.5 = increased damage done while moving.

I am making this assumption because, while moving, increased area of effect = increased damage done as long as targets (monsters) are 100% randomly distributed throughout said area.

Because the Player controls where his character model is in relation to monsters, area =/= damage exactly and must be scaled down. I chose 0.5 because it felt right. There is no way to mathematically prove this 0.5 that I know of. If someone has a bright idea, let me know!

I am also assuming that increased damage while moving ~= increased damage because TR monks move 99.9% of the time.

Elite damage in a whole different story and one that I am choosing to ignore for the sake of this argument because its effect on xp/hr is relatively low.
(IE: a 10% increase or decrease in elite kill speed will have something like a ~1% effect on your xp/hr and is thus, negligible)

So, to recap, assumptions:
1. TR has a radius of 5 yards
2. % Increased Area of effect * 0.5 = % increased damage while moving
3. Increased damage while moving = increase damage

Math:
TR AoE = pi * 5^2 = 78.54 sq yd
SW AoE = pi * 10^2 = 314.16 sq yd
SW:F AoE = pi * 14^2 = 615.75 sq yd
Sub AoE = pi * 20^2 = 1256.64 sq yd

To compare all the skills on an equal ground, we will scale them all to the lowest common denominator (TR)
Note: This is a unitless scalar
TR AoE to dmg scalar = 78.54/78.54 = 1
SW AoE to dmg scalar = 314.16/78.54 = 4
SW:F AoE to dmg scalar = 615.75/78.54 = 7.84
Sub AoE to dmg scalar = 1256.64/78.54 = 16

Now, player choice effects the increase in effectiveness from AoE.
So we must convert these numbers to %effectiveness gained from AoE.
TR AoE effectiveness % = 1-1 * 100 = 0%
SW AoE effectiveness % = 4-1 * 100 = 300%
SW:F AoE effectiveness % = 7.84-1 * 100 = 684%
Sub AoE effectiveness % = 16-1 * 100 = 1500%

As stated in the assumptions, because of player choice, this effective increase is scaled DOWN by 0.5
This gives new effectiveness numbers of:
TR AoE effectiveness % (New) = 0% * 0.5 = 0%
SW AoE effectiveness % (New) = 300% * 0.5 = 150%
SW:F AoE effectiveness % (New) = 684% * 0.5 = 342%
Sub AoE effectiveness % (New) = 1500% * 0.5 = 750%

Then we convert them back to unitless scalars:
TR AoE to dmg scalar (New) = (0%/100) + 1 = 1
SW AoE to dmg scalar (New) = (225%/100) + 1 = 2.5
SW:F AoE to dmg scalar (New) = (513%/100) + 1 = 4.42
Sub AoE to dmg scalar (New) = (1125%/100) + 1 = 8.5

Now, each skill has a modifier for its respective Area of Effect, we must see how much damage each skill does relative to its compatriots.
TR effective damage per second = 85% * 1 = 85%
SW effective damage per second = 45% * 2.5 = 112.5%
SW:F effective damage per second = 45% * 4.42 = 198.9%
Sub effective damage per second = 12% * 8.5 = 102%

What do these numbers mean?
IF TR does 85% of your paperdoll DPS each second over 5 yards, then:
SW will do 112.5% of your paperdoll each second
SW:F will do 198.9% of your paperdoll each second
Sub will do 102% of your paperdoll each second

Now we just check these numbers vs your situation:
Option A: 125k DPS with TR, SW:F and Sub
Option B: 146k DPS with TR, SW, and Sub

A:
125 * 0.85 +
125 * 1.989 +
125 * 1.02 =
482k

B:
146 * 0.85 +
146 * 1.125 +
146 * 1.02 =
437k

Net loss = ~45k DPS

Assuming you agree with my numbers, and there are PLENTY of reasons not to, you should use Xeph + Firestorm over Rare + Inner Storm.

Edit: The only number that I used that is an "assumption" not based in at least some level of testing is the player_choice_scalar of 0.5.

Here are the breakdowns for different scalars:
If player choice means a LOT and the scalar is set to 0.25:
Xeph + Firestorm = 330k
Rare + Inner = 322k

If player choice means very little and the scalar is set to 0.75:
Xeph + Firestorm = 635k
Rare + Inner = 552k

the player choice scalar would have to be set to ~0.2 in order for the choices to be equal and Inner only beats Firestorm by a significant margin when the scalar is set to ~0.

<3
Edited by Druin#1518 on 1/23/2013 1:42 PM PST
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So i tried out the BF+BoH+cyclone+sub+TC-elite-killing spec you suggested for xp/hr with my new ring (see profile) for a whole level (54->55) now. I forced myself to pick up only two legendaries, ammys and rings. 1st run i bumped into 3 RD packs within the first minute and died to all of them. Took me 68:13 minutes to gather ~73.4 m xp which is ~64.61 mil/hr. Not that much of an increase but i need to get the hang of this first and die less - i died pretty often during this hour. Coming from SSS made me a bit careless i guess.

Though i must say i was much more vulnerable having to jump in the middle of elite packs getting hit by their fire chains/sentries/desecrator pools and whatnot. This also forced me to usw 20+ potions - more than ever before during a session. SSS and DR from a distance was much more relaxing @ 6% less xp.

Also i felt a bit starving on spirit and every so often ran out because despite the potion-abuse i had to pop BoH fairly often to save my !@#. MoC "spam" is quite ressource-consuming too. I could afford but 1- max. 2 per elite encounter and if i didnt catch them balled up properly it even took me quite a bit to smash them.

I'm considering to try out SSS instead of BoH and keep the rest. Spamming less MoC i will find myself at the same spirit spent at which i am now, i hope.
Going to try and see where i can get xp/hr-wise and also do a few more levels before i judge but this first impression i didn't quite like.

Might go ahead and see what firestorm brings but with the "loot spec" you suggested there you also kill elites at melee distance (WotHF) being completely exposed to anything they throw at me - and supposedly at even slower kill speed that TC.

No LS sucks!

In the end it could also be me failing hard, though. Still believing in my new ring! *fingers crossed*
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ok, touching base with you about how my non-inna's thing is going:

only using the spirit regen helm and ring means that i only gain enough spirit to TR infinitely, but i do NOT gain spirit while doing it. combined with my full casting cost on SW, and blinding faith (cuz i let SW expire if it runs out), it meant i did not have enough spirit to sss when i needed to, and sometimes ran out when in need of a SW.

so i switched out sss to the air mystic ally. she has an aoe which kills along with my firestorm, plus the occasional 100 spirit she gives tops me up so i never run out when i need to hit blinding faith and SW.

working pretty good! no sss insta-kills, but between me and the ally (and the templar,) elites and champs just die really really fast anyways. i don't ever die and xp and loot is coming fast and hard. found a 10cc stormshield earlier today and it sold for 65 million while i was away at work this morning. although i haven't been TR'ing for long, i owe my 2 x biggest finds (that stormshield and a 6 crit lacuni ) to this build!!!
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Posts: 1,892
I think the best part of this build is that magic find runs are short enough you can take breaks and it hardly even feels like your grinding. I generally do 1-2 runs that take about 10 mins each then take a 10 minute break till I start again and it really makes grinding a lot more enjoyable.
I'm also gaining about 3/4 paragon a day now way faster then I would if I cyclone build on act3.

My version / gear unless I'm swap out for ubers or something.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Calamity-1271/hero/4389320

I'm also thinking about getting a SoJ however it's really hard to find one at the right price with the right stats mostly cause you can't search them easy
Edited by Calamity#1271 on 1/24/2013 1:31 AM PST
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fallen off of page 1?!?!!? i don;t think so!!! up you go!
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